Author Topic: Do you believe...  (Read 64993 times)

Offline gpgarrettboast

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« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2004, 10:08:50 PM »
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Religion is religion, science is science. Religion should not and does not have any connection with science, the creation of planet or evolution or even the big bang as basicly all astronomical data gathered points to it. With hubble and some basic knowledge you can literally see the result of a "big bang"
 
There is alot of science/mathmatics that shows some intelligence behind the creation of the universe. Look at the fibonacci equation and all of the places it occurs in nature.  There are many more, but I'm not very potent in this area.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2004, 12:17:29 AM »
nobody cares about the mad scientist  :(

gooooooooooooooooood they will never suspect a thing <_<  
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2004, 04:10:18 AM »
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There is alot of science/mathmatics that shows some intelligence behind the creation of the universe. Look at the fibonacci equation and all of the places it occurs in nature.  There are many more, but I'm not very potent in this area.
Yes, the equation can among other in simple terms be used to describe the breeding of a rabbit or the branching of a tree. By using the golden ratio you can also calculate the number of sections in a sea shell.
It is also one of the golden laws in the evolution theory describing part of why the cells act like they do. As such the scientific community view it partly as a holy grail in unraveling the secrets of evolution.

It is one of the fractal patterns (although quite linear in a sense they lead to many "unexpected" results) i mentioned earlier.

Now for the question, How in Earths name did you manage to turn one of the things describing evolutionary branching into something supporting the Creation you believe in?!?! 0.o *stares at gpgarret*

(as usual there is no strange supernatural force giving "life" a push, while i see where you're pointing by thinking cells or plants are controlled by some kind of rudimentary "intelligence" or alghoritm it has very natural explanations. If thinking like that we could question ourselves why life would want to "live" to even begin with, the answer to that is that life has no will to live and not live, it is a chemical process governed by the laws in this world and nothing more, nothing less. It is as rudimentary as hydrogen binding) (and no with that i don't mean that for example animals dont want to live just that the basic "stones" dont care wether they live or not in a way (i am aware of the fact that their goal is selfpreservation but im guessing by now that you get my meaning))
« Last Edit: August 11, 2004, 05:52:52 AM by Zircon »

Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2004, 05:27:44 AM »
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so beta, u think that Christ is a polluting power source? Don't you think that not believeing in Christ could do you more harm than good. For example, we had a german living with us for two weeks (he's coming back to my house on the 10th of this month). Well, in Germany a lot of people are athiests and believe in partying all night long. they are provided w/ condoms and birth control at age 14 and some start at even age 12. they don't believe in waiting till ur married and also start drinking beer at 14 and hard liquor at age 16. Now, don't you think that livestyle is on the dangerous side? Don't you think that strong belief in a higher being would help stop sex as young as age 12? i feel sad that kids younger than me are taught that having sex and drinking are sociable characteristics.

lol then Hungary is a problem area too... Beer, Wine, Sex at 14... Tequila, Gin, Martini, Vodka, etc. 16...

I believe in god. Me and my parents go to the church every month. (dunno why but this area of Hungary only goes once a month)
 
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2004, 10:06:30 AM »
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I'm stating my honest opinion, so stop it with the gesture
 was that directed at my laughing smiley or what?  


hey beta.  how r u?  and z, i respect ne and all of your and CK9's expainations.  i think it's great you two no so much stuff that i'll never understand.  i'm not brown noseing either...
no, I was refering to the gesture that some some people make to say someone is brown nosing (they make a fist, put the base of the thumb to their nose, and turn it back and forth like they were chalking up a que)



lol, someone thinks I know non-trivial stuff.  Actually, I'm not too dumb, I did do well in AP chem, and pre calc (that one drove me nuts, the first math class I got a B as my final grade in).  Unfortunately, a lot of my "knowledge" is composed of mythology and trivial information (such as the origon of flipping someone off (that one is my fav.)
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2004, 11:22:04 PM »
I heard that one (the flipping off one) and why it's called giving someone the bird. Anyways, aren't we kinda getting of topic here?
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2004, 11:44:33 PM »
if we can justify it to the topic, it isn't off topic, is it?

where is the discussion of the topic at?
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2004, 11:55:23 PM »
Talking about the source of flipping off, how well one did in pre-calc...those kinda things. :)

Nevermind, I was just being an @$$....so CK9 and Zircon, does any of your family believe in God?
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2004, 04:20:22 AM »
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Nevermind, I was just being an @$$....so CK9 and Zircon, does any of your family believe in God?
Being a "little" religious over here isn't very unusual. (not usual either, in my class we had 31 students. One of them was religious... but then again he was known as the oddball in the class...)
But being a full fledged one (as in going to church) you either have to be a nutty (nothing mean meant, just that the church attracts the mentally disturbed portion of the country, no joke.) or have parents that are very religious, but even then the people with the religious parents tend to slowly drift away from it...

So except for my really old grandmother that has a little tiny hope for heaven because she is as said very old there's no religion in either my family or entire family tree (atleast those that are living)

Note: This is merely my views, i cannot say that this is true for all Swedes, saibot for example might have a very different view of things (or not)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 07:00:00 AM by Zircon »

Offline Oprime

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« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2004, 08:55:32 AM »
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While it is true that one cant even speculate what might have been before the first bigbang science accepts it as a mystery while religion fills the gap with "god" based on a 2000 year old "legacy" that had its first scriptures written over 70 years after "jesus" originally died at year zero.

Those books where mostly from notes and knowledge of jesus's words. The bible is made of A LOT of books mainly (forgot number atm :P). These books go way back not just 70 years after jesus died, maybe 2000+ years with Islam being a further addition of the bible (tenents are muslim and told me of their religion).

Zircon you have to be a little bit more open minded when it comes to religions, because, hebrew, judaism, christianity, and islam are all based on 1 religion. For example Jesus was a jew and most likely still is. Another example for how OLD these religions are is when Moses freed the hebrew people from the Egyptians. That was THOUSANDS of years before Jesus made his apperance.

hmm, isn't that religion called "kabbalah" even older then the hebrew religion?
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Offline PlayingOutpost0-24

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« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2004, 09:52:46 AM »
Anyway Hungary is a very religious country. 63% of the adults believe in god  22% semi-believers (i dunno how lol). And of course every town (even the smallest lol! population: 8) has at least one church.
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2004, 09:59:07 AM »
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Those books where mostly from notes and knowledge of jesus's words. The bible is made of A LOT of books mainly (forgot number atm :P). These books go way back not just 70 years after jesus died, maybe 2000+ years with Islam being a further addition of the bible (tenents are muslim and told me of their religion).

Zircon you have to be a little bit more open minded when it comes to religions, because, hebrew, judaism, christianity, and islam are all based on 1 religion. For example Jesus was a jew and most likely still is. Another example for how OLD these religions are is when Moses freed the hebrew people from the Egyptians. That was THOUSANDS of years before Jesus made his apperance.

hmm, isn't that religion called "kabbalah" even older then the hebrew religion?
I stand corrected  ^_^

I did know that "hebrew, judaism, christianity, and islam are all based on 1 religion" which just adds to the "soup" with people saying "My religion is correct" "No mine is" "yadda" etc...

My goal isn't to "bash" or even try to prove that "god" doesn't exist, my goal is to shatter the rather mindless "proofs" religious people bring up in order to falsify for example evolution. The fibonacci equation gpgarret brought up is a mathematical equation twisted into something it really isn't... That is unless the "creator" created evolution but which gpgarret somehow tried to counteract with mathematics pointing toward evolution which was... reversed psychology or a backfiring plan?  :blink:
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 10:01:36 AM by Zircon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2004, 10:45:22 AM »
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Nevermind, I was just being an @$$....so CK9 and Zircon, does any of your family believe in God?
I beleive my parents do, my sister has flat out told them that she doesn't, and I let my parents beleive what they want to.  They will know all I haven't told themabout myself as soon as they cannot send me to a shrink (I was threatend with it once because I am a-social, what do you think would happen if I told them I was a dragon in a past life and that I do not believe in a god?)
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Offline Oprime

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« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2004, 11:00:26 AM »
:huh: I was only saying that to show you how closed minded you where. Anyway from time to time the religion is "upgraded" it's really all the same religion just  that stuff gets added to help people understand what they are reading better. Plus, the bible is interprated differently every time somebody reads it. That is 1 of the resones that catholic preists spend like 15 years of bible study to more greatly understand it even then they continue studing until they die.

I'm catholic and believe that Jesus was teaching people to love each other even if they did something horriable. That could be interprated by somebody else as stupid so they change to an older version where they didn't have to forgive all the time. In concusion it's all up to how a person interprets the bible. When people fight over which version they like more they're just hard headed people that want all others to follow their view of things. That's way I'm telling you to be a little bit more open minded and see where these people are coming from. Every person on the planet has a different way of thinking.
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2004, 11:38:21 AM »
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:huh: I was only saying that to show you how closed minded you where.
Being open minded has to do with accepting/tolerating the views of other persons.
I don't have to "believe" in for example christianity in order to be openminded just tolerate and accept it.

(tolerate sounds rather "hostile" i wonder if there's a better word... hmm...)

While my lack of knowledge and misjudgement of age in christianity i don't think im "that" closed minded (strange word) when correcting people...

Offline Oprime

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« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2004, 11:41:53 AM »
*smacks his head*
OK... here's an example of how closed minded you are... you said

Quote
While it is true that one cant even speculate what might have been before the first bigbang science accepts it as a mystery while religion fills the gap with "god" based on a 2000 year old "legacy" that had its first scriptures written over 70 years after "jesus" originally died at year zero.

I "corrected" you by saying that the bible is isn't only a book at was written in 70 years. You responded

Quote
The fibonacci equation gpgarret brought up is a mathematical equation twisted into something it really isn't... That is unless the "creator" created evolution but which gpgarret somehow tried to counteract with mathematics pointing toward evolution which was... reversed psychology or a backfiring plan? 

You think diffently then gpgarret so you tried to correct him with your way of thinking. Give an example to show us how it works so we can more greatly understand not just say no your wrong.
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2004, 12:39:19 PM »
hmm, ok...

In very easy terms the fibonacci equation works by as the sum of two previous numbers 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 <--- example...

It can be used for several different things, for example you can generate a Closed-form by using the equation. I've never been good at maths so i fail to understand the math behind it, just the "verbal" part of it so to say. So posting an equation of it would just be a waste because it's literally a bunch of strange letters.


Now for any smart<beep> before i continue these are not what i call strange letters as it is a simple Polynom...

As mentioned before the equation can be used to for example describe the branching of a tree. One branch exiting from another will lead to another branch. The same goes for flower stalks etc pretty much any plant. What gpgarret probably meaned was that because plants follow this pattern "god" must have programmed the plants to follow that specific type of pattern.

But the fibonacci equation isn't only interesting to biologists but also play a role in "evolution" (where the more difficult maths come) and how for example animals grow. As for actually calculating evolutionary steps consisting of lots of maths which the fibonacci numbers are used in (and which you want an example of) i cant  because i simply dont know them. As such i cant prove exactly how the fibonacci equation is used in the evolution theory and as such im just a another mindless fool believing what scientists type without actually being able to check it for myself.

What i can tell you is that if the scientists aren't playing a prank upon the world it is used often in "evolution" (empty word as i cannot clarify it further) and in something called "Population Genetics" where they trace genetic changes through animals and people.

A gene can have several dna sequences of the same type called "alleles" by comparing "alleles" in different populations you can trace changes through time (small and big) these changes are what they like to call Evolution.

If we name two Alleles A and B, A+B would be 1 or rather 100% thus no change, comparing 3 alleles ABC would become A + B + C = 1/100%. By increasing the number of alleles compared the test becomes more accurate.

So basicly by comparing different Alleles from different people or races one can follow drastic or small changes in the genes through time. One of the troubles though is to actually get living genetic material from older specimens. Signatures can often be found but as they are dried out and probably has had their accuracy diminished this theory isn't "solid" proof that Evolution occured. A mediocre example is horses and donkeys, while they can be bred and have infertile offspring certain Alleles match and that the changes match the projected ones showing that the forefather of a horse evolved into both a horse and donkey. But as usual you can simply point out that god might have decided to use the same "framework" making the two animals oddly like each other.

The same goes for humans and the australian aborgines. In that case however the future will eventually point out wether they are evolving or not by following the changes in the alleles. (that will however take a long long time)

A living but small proof of it is the banana fly, by having two colonies and altering their "habitat" they made so that in one colony some of the nutritional packets they needed were poisoned. This colony effectively after a couple of generations grew a bigger or more evolved brain capable of understanding that when a lot of the flies died they stayed away from it and then teached their offspring the same thing.
However the bigger brain as such required more nutritional value decreasing the size of the colony. The untouched colony lived in harmony swarming the place. They proceeded to lower the amount of oxygen and food in the second colony making so that they both had to grow bigger efficient lungs and increase their effective lifespan so that the colony could survive. When the alleles were compared they had the same basic parts  but numerous other changes. Now for the surprising part, when the two colonies were mixed they didn't mate and had such vast differences in their genes that they weren't compatible anylonger. Succesfully "evolving".
As usual it is worth to note however that this is weak evidence because their intolerance to each other might just have either been a forced change by the toxins.

To finish off, i cant show you real "proof" of what im talking about but to sum things up.

The fibonacci equation is often used in evolutionary science and unless "god" also made Evolution (or atleast something like it) gpgarret made a backfiring post as it rather points to "evolution" and not against it.

Does that suffice?
I feel i might have missed something...

(Edited a couple of spelling errors)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 03:46:46 PM by Zircon »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2004, 08:45:10 PM »
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hmm, ok...
In very easy terms the fibonacci equation works by as the sum of two previous numbers 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34
reminds me a little of Pascal's Triangle
(just imagine all the periods aren't there, it's the only way it will stay in position)

..........1
........1..1
......1..2...1
....1..3...3...1
..1..4...6...4..1
1...5.10.10.5...1

going on by the formula:



 /.n.\...........n!........../.n-1.\......./.n-1.\
|......|..=..---------.=.|........|..+..|........|
 \.r../.........(n-r)!r!....\...r.../.......\.r-1./


EDIT: just found an image that shows why it reminds me of it:

« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 08:46:45 PM by CK9 »
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2004, 11:30:39 PM »
No amount of science or math can disprove anything about God. God is not matter, he is nothing solid or gas or liquid, so by science he can't exist. But God is much more, people tend to try to disprove him using math equation's and scientific theories, but what you have to understand is that God is not like anything on this Earth, so no amount of science or math will ever be able to disprove him because they are all based on Earthly things.

Now, to prove that the big bang theory is correct you'd have to be there back when it happened. Scientists say that the universe is expanding, but how do they know that? They are basing anything they come up with, with stuff they know to be true on Earth. What they are seeing may not be the universe expanding at all. Unless someone gets in a spaceship and flies all the way to the outter edge of the universe, then you'll never be able to fully prove it. There is no solid proof that science is right and religion is wrong because you have to look outside the box and realize that things are different in different parts of the universe so equation's that make since here may be totally wrong out there in the far reaches of space.
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2004, 12:13:20 AM »
like I said before, God is somthing that human brains just canot comprehend, its the same thing with death

so there is no use trying to prove, or disprove somthing that is impossible to even begin to comprehend
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2004, 01:10:25 AM »
I agree that we cannot comprehend all that God is. The only thing that we can comprehend is the word that he spread. The love that he showed man by sacrificing his own son for us, how could we ever comprehend sacrifcing our own child to help out other's.
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2004, 04:43:29 AM »
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No amount of science or math can disprove anything about God. God is not matter, he is nothing solid or gas or liquid, so by science he can't exist. But God is much more, people tend to try to disprove him using math equation's and scientific theories, but what you have to understand is that God is not like anything on this Earth, so no amount of science or math will ever be able to disprove him because they are all based on Earthly things.
Isn't this exactly what i've been saying? That science and religion should be treated as two different things.

Quote
Now, to prove that the big bang theory is correct you'd have to be there back when it happened. Scientists say that the universe is expanding, but how do they know that? They are basing anything they come up with, with stuff they know to be true on Earth. What they are seeing may not be the universe expanding at all. Unless someone gets in a spaceship and flies all the way to the outter edge of the universe, then you'll never be able to fully prove it. There is no solid proof that science is right and religion is wrong because you have to look outside the box and realize that things are different in different parts of the universe so equation's that make since here may be totally wrong out there in the far reaches of space.

That's where you're very wrong, this entire universe is based on the same laws. While for example strong gravitational forces like a black hole can "bend" these rules they apply wherever in this universe you look.

You would have to travel to another universe in order to change the basic laws.

Now for your proof, they have this really big magnifier called a telescope. The telescope in space called Hubble that among other has a (had it broke) red wave spectrometer can pierce the normal parts and see deeper into the universe.

As for proving that the natural laws apply everywhere they simply have to look and compare, the amount of background radiation is the same (not around a black hole) planets are in the same steps of "evolution". Light bends the same way. etc, if something were different they'd see it. Stellar orbits for example are the same everywhere. You dont need to actually travel somewhere when it comes to this, that would probably even make it harder because then you would be in a chaos unable to sort what is what. If you're going to work on something in your math book you dont rip every page out and nicely put them spreading outward on the floor.

How do they know that the universe is expanding, well know that we've said that the laws are the same in the entire universe the "proof" is as follows

1. Olbers' Paradox

Why isn't the night sky as uniformly bright as the surface of the Sun?  If the Universe has infinitely many stars, then it should be.  After all, if you move the Sun twice as far away from us, we will intercept one quarter as many photons, but the Sun will subtend one quarter of the angular area.  So the areal intensity remains constant.  With infinitely many stars, every angular element of the sky should have a star, and the entire heavens should be as bright as the sun.  We should have the impression that we live in the center of a hollow black body whose temperature is about 6000 degrees Celsius.  This is Olbers' paradox.  It can be traced as far back as Kepler in 1610, and was rediscussed by Halley and Cheseaux in the eighteen century; but it was not popularized as a paradox until Olbers took up the issue in the nineteenth century.

There are many possible explanations which have been considered.  Here are a few:

   1. There's too much dust to see the distant stars.
   2. The Universe has only a finite number of stars.
   3. The distribution of stars is not uniform.  So, for example, there could be an infinity of stars,
      but they hide behind one another so that only a finite angular area is subtended by them.
   4. The Universe is expanding, so distant stars are red-shifted into obscurity.
   5. The Universe is young.  Distant light hasn't even reached us yet.

The first explanation is just plain wrong.  In a black body, the dust will heat up too.  It does act like a radiation shield, exponentially damping the distant starlight.  But you can't put enough dust into the universe to get rid of enough starlight without also obscuring our own Sun.  So this idea is bad.

The premise of the second explanation may technically be correct.  But the number of stars, finite as it might be, is still large enough to light up the entire sky, i.e., the total amount of luminous matter in the Universe is too large to allow this escape.  The number of stars is close enough to infinite for the purpose of lighting up the sky.  The third explanation might be partially correct.  We just don't know.  If the stars are distributed fractally, then there could be large patches of empty space, and the sky could appear dark except in small areas.

But the final two possibilities are surely each correct and partly responsible.  There are numerical arguments that suggest that the effect of the finite age of the Universe is the larger effect.  We live inside a spherical shell of "Observable Universe" which has radius equal to the lifetime of the Universe.  Objects more than about 13.7 thousand million years old (the latest figure) are too far away for their light ever to reach us.

Historically, after Hubble discovered that the Universe was expanding, but before the Big Bang was firmly established by the discovery of the cosmic background radiation, Olbers' paradox was presented as proof of special relativity.  You needed the red shift (an SR effect) to get rid of the starlight.  This effect certainly contributes.  But the finite age of the Universe is the most important effect.

2. The hubble law describing linear distance compared to the laws of red shift show distance and length of the universe showing that it is expanding.
Hubble law
Redshift

We know that both the hubble law and redshift is facts instead of theories and you can check them for yourself so there isn't really any question about this "proof"

3. Timedilation, it only acts to ensure the above mentioned facts.
Excerpt from a 27 page long report...
R-band intensity measurements along the light curve of Type Ia supernovae discovered by the Supernova Cosmology Project (SCP) are fitted in brightness to templates allowing a free parameter the time-axis width factor w = s(1+z). The data points are then individually aligned in the time-axis, normalized and K-corrected back to the rest frame, after which the nearly 1300 normalized intensity measurements are found to lie on a well-determined common rest-frame B-band curve which we call the ``composite curve''. The same procedure is applied to 18 low-redshift Calan/Tololo SNe with z < 0.11; these nearly 300 B-band photometry points are found to lie on the composite curve equally well. The SCP search technique produces several measurements before maximum light for each supernova. We demonstrate that the linear stretch factor, s, which parameterizes the light-curve timescale appears independent of z,and applies equally well to the declining and rising parts of the light curve. In fact, the B-band template that best fits this composite curve fits the individual supernova photometry data when stretched by a factor s with chi^2/DoF approx = 1, thus as well as any parameterization can, given the current data sets. The measurement of the date of explosion, however, is model dependent and not tightly constrained by the current data.
We also demonstrate the 1+z light-curve time-axis broadening expected from cosmological expansion. This argues strongly against alternative explanations, such as tired light, for the redshift of distant objects.

Basicly what he describes is that with distance light redshifts and slows down making so that a supernova which could take 20 days to finish is observed as 40 days from earth.
This timedilation works as a measurement for the length of the universe and it increases.

4. Radio source and quasar counts vs. flux. I am however not versed in this theory/fact and need to read up on it.


5. CMB: Cosmic Microwave Background radiation, also CMBR, CBR and the "3 K blackbody radiation". Radiation left over from the hot Big Bang which has cooled by expansion to a temperature slightly less than 3 degrees above absolute zero. This shows that the Universe has evolved from a dense, isothermal state.
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html

6. A variation in the TCMB with redshift. This is a direct observation of the evolution of the Universe. Feel free to read up on it...

There's more but i dont know everything. So just cut the crap because some things are facts and some are not, while you can feel free to criticise theory's such as evolution dont step on things proven and seen because there cannot be an exception to the laws and observations made by for example hubble shows it. Would you doubt your own eyes?

The only possible error would be to have a couple of aliens manipulating the data hubble sends, which by my standards are rather farfetched.

I'd advise you to read some books, and no not religious ones.

People criticise me that i'm closed minded and think differently (strange) and can't always bring up proof but have you ever looked at yourself and how utterly <beep> you are simply letting such things exit your mouth.

And now im so closed minded because i look at this from my perspective, well in this case it isn't my view, it is how it is
How about bringing something up that could counter this or prove that the natural laws aren't the same everywhere instead of just, "ooh your pretty numbers mean nothing as you haven't been there in a space ship"

Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2004, 04:55:12 AM »
Wow it took you all of that to prove nothing. Again, they only theorize. You call them see the same stuff out there proof that the rules are the same everywhere, then you are just plain dumb. Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there (like the wind). You are basing your theories off of someone else's theories that were based off of someone else's theories. There is no true way to prove it's true. If we colonize all planet's in the universe but one, that one could be different, no matter how much you look at it with a telescope and theorize about it, you just don't know till you go there.

It does truely amaze me how stupid you are to think the theories are proof. All the scientist's in the world could say that this theory is true, but they are just theories. Everyone used to think the earth was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, etc.

You can look at at the stars and galaxies with a telescope all you want and try to compare them to how things are here on this planet, but until you go there you won't know. There could be more element's than the one's on the element chart, there could be different gravity pull's besides just around a black hole.


EDIT: Oh, and you are showing more and more how closed minded you are.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2004, 04:55:38 AM by ZeusBD »
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Offline Zircon

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« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2004, 05:06:00 AM »
*sigh* So if a spectrometer placed on a telescope shows that a planet has oxygen would you care to explain how it could not have oxygen if you were to for example visit it?

Offline CK9

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« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2004, 11:07:03 AM »
Quote
No amount of science or math can disprove anything about God. God is not matter, he is nothing solid or gas or liquid, so by science he can't exist.
 

you forgot one state of matter, plasma.  It is a true state of matter that is not solid, liquid, nor gas.  It is present around floresent lights.  (I learned about it from this one guy who seemedrealy dumb at first, but was actually the first smart person that I ran into who prefered sports.  Then it was confirmed by the science teacher when he did a presentation on it before we were going to learn about it, lol)
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