Rewriting Outpost 2

[Larrythepoet]

I'm just wondering who would be interested if we were ever to try. I don't know how to program in C++, but I would certainly learn if we decided to do it.

[Sirbomber]

Nope.  Seen too many of these projects come and go.

[CK9]

For most of the people here, there isn't enough incentive.  When Dan worked on OP2, he had the incentive of the all-mighty dollar.  The best you could get here is acknowledgement below the level of prestige

[Simpsonboy77]

I voted yes, but I am limited by my ability, and time. I'm terrible at graphics which are important, and I don't know much of the internals of the game to make a true port.

As an engineering major time is limited for extra curricular activities. If they offered a OP2 RE class, I'd take it.

On the other hand, if someone organized it well, it could be done. That is the problem, as CK9 pointed out here.

Then there are problems with hard coded parts, like cargo truck dumping (iirc).

Finally lets say we get something working for a rewrite. What would you want to do with it then?

EDIT (leeor_net): fix broken link

[Sirbomber]

Uhhh... You could just rip the graphics from OP2_ART with the Art Viewer?

[Freeza-CII]

to be honest i dont see the point in rewriting the game.  So much can already be done to the game maps dlls and tek files.  i really dont see any other reason to remake it unless its going to be 3D or with a continuation of the story.  A GOOD STORY.  no mallets of romulon or super secret russian space ship.  Being able to mod it easier seems like it would be less of a pain in the ass to make another game that can be modded with ease into a op2 that isnt some wc3 people that are renamed laser lynx.  A laser lynx is not a giant cow beast.  Starting from scratch has made many here famous and also failures because the project is to long term to care about after a while.

[CK9]

the best project was Renegades, but that died.  If Eddy and the rest of the team are willing to let us work on that, I'd be willing to devote some time to it, even if I was just the one coordinating people (I'd be okay at coding, but nearly as good as most the coders here)

[Hooman]

I doubt anyone with the skill has the time. But, if you were going to do it, you could save a lot of time by ripping the graphics and sound out of Outpost 2, like Simbomber has just said. I'm not sure that the art viewer extracts enough info on it's own. There is a fair bit of meta data that also needs to be captured.

Freeza brings up an interesting point, about where exactly would a rewrite get us. Mostly, it'd be easier to fix bugs, or write extensions, if the rewrite was done right. But then, if nobody has the time, how would those bug fixes or extensions get written, never mind the rewrite itself. Right?    

[Hidiot]

Considering the pain we have to go through to do anything really interesting to the game, a rewrite would be really helpful, if we were to know the internal workings of the game well.


Also, even if it may take us 20 years to completely rewrite it, one bit at a time, it would still be something.


<written after major dental surgery>

[Angellus Mortis]

I think rewriting is a good idea, but I thought that is what OP3D was for? If we rewrite, it need to be that version of OP2.

EDIT: Otherwise, another idea is to build OP2 3D on the open source game WarZone 2100. It is actually quite good. It is fully open source and has great vehicle customization that would be great in OP. We can take the source and start there.  

[TH300]

Huh? what it would be good for?
1. Outpost2 has many bugs which we could fix easier in a rewrite
2. Outpost2 modding is limited. You can't increase the maximal playernumber in multiplayer games, the unit limit, the number of units available. You can't change the multiplayer game setup screen to allow propagating of more settings to the mission dll.
3. Coding is limited. Writing a good ai is hard because of missing interfaces. There are projects like IUnit, but that is not guaranteed to work and its still limited.
4. The original Outpost2 will always be a 32bit windows application and it will always require certain apis. Running it on Linux requires Wine, running it on Vista or Windows 7 requires some special settings. How long will it take until it doesn't run on the latest windows version?
5. There is still the desire to make an op3. A remake of op2 would be a good starting point for that.

There are enough reasons for a rewrite. Now, who would do it? Whereas I am definitely interested, I won't have much time to work on such a project.

[CK9]

Huh? what it would be good for?
 

Absolutely nothing!  Sing it again!


lol, sorry couldn't resist.  Especially since "war" was said in the post before you.

If we had a sudden population explosion here, I could see justification for working on a rewrite.  However, with how few people we have it just doens't seem worth the effort.

[WooJoo]

well to say it blunt if it supports linux and is open source you can surely find some fresh new people to help at a high chance. support for open source games is allways flowing if you take some steps and show what you do.

i think a op2 port/rewright would help op2 to get up to time since the tech used at op2 was like windows style cryption where everything is totaly unkown space and first needs to be deeply explored.

if there was a projekt to redo the thing it would make the game more transparent and give it a chance to life on another decate or so since the ability to mod a game in means to increase the player count or add new tile typs would mean to increase the replay-ability of the game exponantionaly.

[Kayedon]

You get a hold of licensing, copyrights, trademarks and anything else, and you can find some people. I would love to work on it, but as others have said, I don't have the time. Anyone who notices me will notice I've hardly been around here anymore, thanks to school and work. D:

But still, you can find people. Most likely. But remember, OP2 is what, 12 or 13 years old? If you just make the same game with the same everything but rewritten and no dollar reward, I doubt people would help. Give people a paycheque, bring it up to date, and I'm sure people will be all too eager to help.

[CK9]

We already can add new tile types...it just takes a LOT of work

[Freeza-CII]

oh yes you can put all the pros out there that you can fix this and make this have more people and you can map easier.  But how long is that going to take you 10 years? op2 would be almost 25 years old. seriously i think effort could be put forth some where else to get the same results in less time.

making money or paying people to work on a game that is 15 years old isnt exactly going to work because if you are getting paid to code thing your going to make alot more then what your going to get out of opu. I have doubts any one would want to put up money to make such a thing after seeing the track record of the projects around here.

op2 open source would probably be a problem because that might put you on the map for a legal issue even what has been done to it already besides maps and dlls is illegal i believe but no one cares.  one of the ways you get away with making a op2 that its a mod to another game. of every thing is changed which involves more then what any one around here would really want to do and then it would be op2 with a different look units names ect..

but with the game getting older and people getting lives and new games taking people away.  I would say just enjoy the game while you can play it.

[TH300]

<rant>ITS GETTING SO ANNOYING! If you don't believe in a community-made sequal/remake or if you think its wasted effort, keep that for yourself, please. There are enough people who want it and believe in it. Why can't you acknowledge that "worth the effort" is true if its only true in the opinion of one individual? What do you gain from discouraging people? I can only see what you take away from them: You take away their hopes/dreams etc. And even if people work on a remake, it'll in no case be "wasted effort", because working on a remake is also learning a lot.</rant>

[Sirbomber]

Why can't you acknowledge that "worth the effort" is true if its only true in the opinion of one individual?

Because we feed on crushed hopes and shattered dreams.

[Spikerocks101]

Well, since I love programming, and I love Outpost 2, I will gladdly make it. I know I ain't that skilled yet, but if you tell me to learn a certen API or use a certen engine, I will just so I can help. And if no one else who knows how to program and has free time is able to help, I could lead a project, and manage to include people who don't have alot of time to give towards programming. Lastly, weren't most of you guys 15-19 when you made Outpost 3 Genesis? I know me, simpson, and angellus, and others all are pretty skilled (me being the lesser one thou >_>) and could easily make a remake. The question would just be, OP2 or OP3? Oh, and Kayedon, if we do some changes, like calling the game "Outpost Universe" and maybe even renaming the faction, would that still break copyright laws, for I don't want anything bad to happen to a fan project.

[CK9]

For the most part, those of us who have been around here long enough to see the failed attempts at the sequals KNOW that a remake is highly unlikely to ever get finished.  Rather than getting our hopes up only to see them crushed, we approach the issue with skepticism and negativity.  There's a saying in engineering: the precieved ease of a design is inversely proportional to the ignorance of it.  In other words, the less you know about the full depth of a project, the easier it seems.  However, if all of you who are keeping a positive outlook are willing to work on it, then you should go for it.  Though, I highly suggest reading this:
http://verenia.stoneship.org/presentation/

It's an article about a failed game coding project that can help you learn how to avoid the mistakes that are fairly common yet not thought of as much.  If you have the ability, prove us wrong by completing a remake in far less than 10 years.

EDIT (leeor_net): redirect link to wayback archive

[Spikerocks101]

Maybe it might be better not to jump on OP2 remake to soon. Maybe it would be better spent making another game first, as to see how making a group game will be done...

[Sirbomber]

Oh, and Kayedon, if we do some changes, like calling the game "Outpost Universe" and maybe even renaming the faction, would that still break copyright laws, for I don't want anything bad to happen to a fan project.

Help Mighty Man the robot in his quest to save the city from the evil robot creations of Dr. Willy!


...Yeah, that ain't gonna fly.

If you missed the reference, this is a blatant rip-off of Mega Man.

[Kayedon]

Oh, and Kayedon, if we do some changes, like calling the game "Outpost Universe" and maybe even renaming the faction, would that still break copyright laws, for I don't want anything bad to happen to a fan project.

Help Mighty Man the robot in his quest to save the city from the evil robot creations of Dr. Willy!


...Yeah, that ain't gonna fly.

If you missed the reference, this is a blatant rip-off of Mega Man.

Without going too much in-depth on the copyright laws (you can find those posted up on the internet), it works like this:

If you can have any number of people on the street look at both objects (in this case, both games), and they say they're the same, it's infringement. If there is enough difference that onlookers can see they're two different projects, then it's legal (although there will probably be some controversy if they're TOO similar).

In order to make it a legal game:

Rewrite the story, and ditch the novella
New names for everything that would be considered unique (for example, the names of some of the weapons, the chassis, possibly some of the buildings)
Re-do all the artwork, animations, and other graphics
Re-do all the sounds
Rewrite everything

And I'm sure there is more I have missed.

Edit:
On that note, about the only thing I would be very good at is sound effects, music, and naming. Maybe a bit of story. Coding is not a huge strength of mine but it's easier to learn a second language than a first.

[Freeza-CII]

ok first off this isnt wow stop with the slash commands.

and if you want to whine about what i said go for it.  But IF YOU dont want to hear some thing dont listen right. Try to deny that project around here fail because people get in over there head or they just plain run out of the free time to do it.

And I say what i say because look HOW long it takes a team of skilled programers to make a game and you basicly want to start with scraps of a already exsisting game that you dont and will not have the source code for.  Like i siad before you want to do this youll end up 10 years down the road with a game but by then it might be so pointless. Especially when it could have been made in a much better way then the classic rts and yes i mean 3d of some kind.  So in short AIM high and get a great chance of failure or extreem stalling. Or just try to make some op2 mod for a already exsisting game so it wont take for ever to see results. and no one is killing themselves to try to get a game finished that is already made.

 

[Sirbomber]

We need to replace all of the OP2 music with the Mortal Kombat theme song.  Then I would help a remake/sequel project.

"Command Control Initiated.  MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAAT!!!"