Author Topic: Rewriting Outpost 2 (Read 17418 times)

CK9 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 24, 2010, 11:32:25 PM »

Lol, and when a disaster warning goes off, you hear: "Get over here!"

Sirbomber · « **Reply #26 on:** February 24, 2010, 11:58:28 PM »

No, you hear "MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAAT!!!" again. Or, occasionally, "FINISH HIM!"

There may be other "lyrics" but I can't remember right now...

lordpalandus · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2010, 12:26:57 AM »

Wouldn't it be easier to just keep most of the files and change just the art files? Instead of a complete redo. You can always make additional changes later, but why not just update art files first.

Plus it'd be a morale booster for those who are used to constant failures in the OP2 Remake department... if there is such a department.

Or, one could make a sort of remake by making something simple first. Something like OP1. Make an alpha version first then worry about the beta after the alpha. Just make something that works. Nothing fancy just workable.

I'm a supporter of an OP3 game. I dunno if remake of OP2 is OP3 or not but what little I've seen on the net for OP3 especially the terrain demo, looked pretty good.

Kayedon · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2010, 12:42:00 AM »

Quote

Wouldn't it be easier to just keep most of the files and change just the art files? Instead of a complete redo. You can always make additional changes later, but why not just update art files first.

Plus it'd be a morale booster for those who are used to constant failures in the OP2 Remake department... if there is such a department.

Or, one could make a sort of remake by making something simple first. Something like OP1. Make an alpha version first then worry about the beta after the alpha. Just make something that works. Nothing fancy just workable.

I'm a supporter of an OP3 game. I dunno if remake of OP2 is OP3 or not but what little I've seen on the net for OP3 especially the terrain demo, looked pretty good.

Not unless you want to go to court. If it was released within the community and only this community we probably wouldn't get in trouble unless someone is a snitch.

However, if any part of it got out (especially to our friend Duncalf or a lawyer or anyone else that was with the dev team) I'd rather not any of us to to court for copyright infringement.

You'd have to remake everything.

But yes, a prototype is the 3rd stage in making a game - only after concept and pre-production.

I suggest if we want this to take off AT ALL, we do a concept at first - basic story, some important names, sketches, settings, etc.

CK9 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:30:18 AM »

Isn't there a bypass for such things if you're not doing it for commercial purposes? I know that's true for any pateneted device.

evecolonycamander · « **Reply #30 on:** February 25, 2010, 05:22:37 AM »

I see what you all are saying and understand it all but, there is a chance that some one may pull it off like me, you, or the homeless guy down on the corner. yes about 5 major game designing companies ether merged or ceased to exist but, I'm every day finding people very interested in making a remake or sequel to Outpost 2 :op2:

CK9 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 25, 2010, 09:28:22 AM »

And yet we don't see them organizing to start work. People say they want something and don't act upon it a lot.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #32 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:26:05 AM »

Yes CK9. So here's what we'll do.

People who want to remake OP2: Go do it and stop whining about how we put you down. You're gonna face (and have already received) a lot of criticism and skepticism, and if you can't take it either grow a pair or don't start the project. Saying "Waaah! Waah! It's not fair! Everyone's so mean!" is not going to get you any respect or support. If you don't like people saying "it's never gonna happen" then go prove us wrong.

Hidiot · « **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:38:19 AM »

As for everyone else, don't act like you wouldn't derive any use from a re-write

Kayedon · « **Reply #34 on:** February 25, 2010, 10:53:38 AM »

Quote

I see what you all are saying and understand it all but, there is a chance that some one may pull it off like me, you, or the homeless guy down on the corner. yes about 5 major game designing companies ether merged or ceased to exist but, I'm every day finding people very interested in making a remake or sequel to Outpost 2 :op2:

No pic no proof!

@CK9: I'm actually not sure about that. But remember the source material is copyrighted, so we'd be doing a non-commercial usage of commercial material? I'll talk to some people, get back to you.
@CK9: I told them what to do, if they want to proceed they have the steps.

@SirBomber: You're being mean!

@Hidiot: Don't act like you wouldn't help!

CK9 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 25, 2010, 11:51:05 AM »

The main reasoning behind my thought (the first one you responded to) is the fact that I can go to the US Patent office website, look up any patent, and build the exact item legally without infringing on the patent AS LONG AS I am not building it with the intent of selling it. which is why some companies will buy patents and destroy the blue prints for any device they believe will destroy their economic niche (Like if I were to somehow develope a battery that would last in a high-intensity flashlight for a full year without turning it off).

Kayedon · « **Reply #36 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:24:02 PM »

@CK9: But you have to remember, copyrights are different than patents.

I snipped this from http://goo.gl/wRDG

A copyright protects original works that fall under the categories of literature, dramatic, musical, artistic, and intellectual. These works may be published or unpublished, and the Copyright Act of 1976 gives the owner exclusive rights to reproduce his or her work in any medium. A copyright protects a form of expression, but not the subject matter of the work. For example, if someone wrote an article about a new car on the market, the text would be copyrighted, preventing someone else from using that particular material. A copyright does not prevent others from writing their own original article about this new car, however, or from using or making the car themselves.

A trademark is used to protect a word, symbol, device, or name that is used for the purpose of trading goods. The trademark indicates the source of goods and distinguishes them from the goods of others. A trademark may also be used to prevent others from using a mark that might be confused with another; trademarks, however, do not prevent other people or businesses from producing the same product or services under a different mark.

A patent for an invention grants a property right to the inventor that will prevent anyone else from making, using, or selling an invention. A patent lasts for a limited amount of time, usually 20 years from the date the application was filed, and is only effective in the country in which it was filed. The application for a patent must include a detailed description of how the invention works. Since a patent is considered "property," it may be bought, sold, mortgaged, or licensed by the owner.

So off of that information, there is nothing really patented since Sierra/Dynamix didn't "invent" anything for the game.
I sent an email to a learned friend of mine about the subject and once he gets back to me I'll let you know, but I'm siding with the side that since this is all copyrighted we can't use it, commercially or non-commercially.

lordpalandus · « **Reply #37 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:45:50 PM »

But Sierra and Dynamix (one in the same as Dynamix was owned by Sierra) does not technically, metaphorically or metaphysically exist anymore. The company disbanded. Why would the copyright still exist when the company itself or even a part of the company doesn't exist?

Also, wouldn't making any modifications to Outpost 2 constitute for copyright infringement? As far as I can see, as long as we do not intend to 'sell' or make a 'profit' from Outpost 3, then we should be allowed to do it. Its not like Sierra is gonna make Outpost 3 and when it disbanded no one bought the 'rights' to Outpost 2. So wouldn't that mean that the game is up for grabs by anyone?

Or look at it this way, the community modded Outpost 2 to not use a CD anymore (I still got mine) and made it freely available for download for anyone. Wouldn't that constitute for copyright infringement? We are afterall offering a game that most of us originally bought, to people for free.

Course we could always try contacting one of the old higher ups in Sierra and getting the go ahead.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #38 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:46:16 PM »

Avoiding Copyright Infringement 101
Three easy steps to avoid legal trouble!

1) Rewrite OP2.
2) Go back in time and publish the game before Sierra gets the chance.
3) Hope that you haven't created a time paradox.

Now, choose from the following based on the results of step 3:
3a) Enjoy the fruits of your labor.
3b) Since we now have the source code there was never a need to rewrite OP2, meaning you never went back in time, meaning that we never got the source code, meaning ... and now the universe is doomed. Thanks loads.

Kayedon · « **Reply #39 on:** February 25, 2010, 03:41:04 PM »

Yes, Dynamix was owned by Sierra.
Sierra didn't disband. They were bought-out by Activision, which is a subsidiary of Activision-Blizzard. Then they were absorbed instead of staying a subsidiary. So technically, Activision is the owner now.

And yes, we're infringing by offering the game for free and without a CD, but mods don't count (since most games are modded anyways). They might, but if they do no one cares.

"Getting the go-ahead" to infringe copyright won't do anything. You need to own the rights, so we'd have to go through Activision.

But remember, they probably don't know or care about the game, and bringing attention to our illegal and very public actions would probably get a lot of us in trouble.

If we want to make a legal sequel, we'd need to buy the rights (which, honestly, I think they'd just give away).
If we wanted to make a loosely-related game (i.e. Colony: Extinction or something) then as long as we did it originally we could sell it.

CK9 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 25, 2010, 05:44:28 PM »

however, there is a liscensing method that would allow for fans to do stuff (Cyan is working on getting this going for URU so that fans can make content and help with the maintainance of the game)

WooJoo · « **Reply #41 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:26:56 PM »

@Sirbomber

i belive in the alternate time line theory ^^

once you change the past you drive a new road on which the (old) future doesnt matter anymore. let me explain via example

Code: [Select]

-----------(point of alternation)---------------------->(present reality   )
                                  \___________________>(alternativ reality )

so ok
who builds the flux compensation device?

TH300 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:30:47 PM »

Quote

Yes CK9. So here's what we'll do.

People who want to remake OP2: Go do it and stop whining about how we put you down. You're gonna face (and have already received) a lot of criticism and skepticism, and if you can't take it either grow a pair or don't start the project.

I won't argue about this. Sadly, there is much truth in it. Constant criticism was part of why Genesis wasn't finished. And it can also make a remake fail. But I don't see how that is necessary. Its mostly the experienced guys who keep complaining, although most of them should know about this relation. And so, its becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I personally feel like contributing to a remake, but I don't have to. Real life is anyway more interesting.

Quote

Saying "Waaah! Waah! It's not fair! Everyone's so mean!" is not going to get you any respect or support.

Some level of respect should be natural. I'm not asking for more. And support is apparently there.

I'm not so concerned about copyright. The artwork is already being distributed here. So, the remake could just use low quality artwork when distributed and everyone who likes op2 could get the original artwork as a mod.

CK9 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 25, 2010, 06:33:26 PM »

I believe that actually demonstrates the idea of sychronizing with an existing alternate reality.

WooJoo · « **Reply #44 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:12:18 PM »

@CK9

yes and no

there are infinit realitys (or possible realitys)

but you could only witness one at a time (you cant be at both points at the same time)

so there is only one reality for you at a given time so there could never be a sync between 2 realitys

only 2 reatlitys that at a time are very similar

so back off topic who gets the flux drive?

// also i would like to contribute work to a remake project...
just as statement of obvious facts =

the first thing needed would be a statement of what is needed how it is needed and what else, then the work packages could be produced and real progress could start

in the end there is realy no chance for a single person try so the best solution would be to make an open project brief and so there cant be complete stagnation of the whole thing since there could always be someone else to contribute...

im not that great with c++ but got exp on bitmap design basics and the basics of how to create simple grafik programms (eventhought i dont think that would realy help right now)

Kayedon · « **Reply #45 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:19:44 PM »

Enough about time warp stuff.
Flux drive?
And TH300, I'd be willing to as well, and the criticism doesn't really affect me. If you can't take some criticism you shouldn't try making a remake.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #46 on:** February 25, 2010, 07:46:43 PM »

You guys are thinking of the flux capacitor...

Quote

And so, its becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ummm... what?

Just because we predict something will fail, and then it does, doesn't make it a "self-fulfilling prophecy" (it just means we were right)...

CK9 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 25, 2010, 08:04:17 PM »

Quote

@CK9

yes and no

there are infinit realitys (or possible realitys)

but you could only witness one at a time (you cant be at both points at the same time)

so there is only one reality for you at a given time so there could never be a sync between 2 realitys

only 2 reatlitys that at a time are very similar

so back off topic who gets the flux drive?

// also i would like to contribute work to a remake project...
just as statement of obvious facts =

the first thing needed would be a statement of what is needed how it is needed and what else, then the work packages could be produced and real progress could start

in the end there is realy no chance for a single person try so the best solution would be to make an open project brief and so there cant be complete stagnation of the whole thing since there could always be someone else to contribute...

im not that great with c++ but got exp on bitmap design basics and the basics of how to create simple grafik programms (eventhought i dont think that would realy help right now)

so basically, you are restating what I said with more words and changing my words to make it look like I said otherwise?

WooJoo · « **Reply #48 on:** February 26, 2010, 04:14:55 AM »

CORRECT!

now who´s going to kick the stone and start the stuff

Kayedon · « **Reply #49 on:** February 26, 2010, 08:40:17 AM »

Quote

CORRECT!

now who´s going to kick the stone and start the stuff

You can.

Tell you what; you get a story sketched out that is different from OP2 (I just want a basic premise), maybe some sketches and drawings, and anything else you can think of, and I'll come on.

News:

Poll

Would you be interested in helping rewrite Outpost 2?

Author Topic: Rewriting Outpost 2 (Read 17418 times)