Author Topic: Emp Missle Theory  (Read 12077 times)

Offline Arklon

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Emp Missle Theory
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2006, 03:16:00 PM »
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1) Using a EMP missile on an enemy's smelters is just annoying it doesn't do much good. Takes about 20 secs max to recover from.
More like 40 seconds because you have to reset the ore routes and everything. And imagine having to do this over and over again because the enemy keeps sending missiles at your smelters. And you usually have to manage your army at the same time...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 03:16:20 PM by Arklon »

Offline thablkpanda

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« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2006, 03:32:07 PM »
Exactly.

Which returns us to our issue of missle spamming -> missle defense.

I think at the very least we should implement some missle limit or something per game. Help make games interesting in Eden v. Plymouth situations. Plymouth has to come up with a new way to play IMO.

Chris

Offline Mcshay

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« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2006, 04:11:21 PM »
Some plymouth players just need to realise that missles are a cheep way to win a game, and won't win you very many allies. I will only use missles if it's an op2 rpg, or if other plymouth players are using them against me.

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2006, 02:51:17 AM »
I think that whole idea that it's not worth it to EMP smelters is put forth by people who don't like it happening to them. If it takes 20 to 40 seconds to recover from that, how much ore did they lose out on harvesting? Now how much do EMP missiles cost? I don't think it works out too badly. Plus you force them to take the time to reset ore routes. So it's a very good distraction when you're preparing for an attack. If they ignore their army, it could get slaughtered. If they ignore their ore trucks, it's gonna set them back even further in ore. Plus, if they're losing units, they need to be building them back. If their ore production isn't up to par, they can run out of money pretty fast if the attack lasts. I'd say it's more than a simple annoyance.

Plus, you only need to use up scientists and workers running a spaceport when your building the missile and when you're launching it. Just hot key the building and activate it when you need it. You can easily have a bunch of spaceports stocking missiles and only use one at a time to keep the resource requirements down.

As for EMP missile defense for Plymouth, I suspect that scorpions were meant to be a weak form of that. A very very weak form. Pretty useless, but they can't get EMPed, so they can at least fire something back. Maybe save you from a single supernova or something. Not too likely though.
 

Offline thablkpanda

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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2006, 05:12:25 AM »
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As for EMP missile defense for Plymouth, I suspect that scorpions were meant to be a weak form of that. A very very weak form. Pretty useless, but they can't get EMPed, so they can at least fire something back. Maybe save you from a single supernova or something. Not too likely though.

LOL- Yeah, that's true. We still haven't touched on eden though...

Chris

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2006, 08:54:21 AM »
Heh, since nobody wants to listen anyways, I guess I'll stop trying to teach anything :yawn:  
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Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2006, 03:32:17 PM »
EMP missiles are fine the way they are, and if ppl want to mass-produce them, well mass production is a very valid strategy, so I don't see why a limit should be put on them. However, the blind spot on meteor defences seems like a bug, and I'd say using it is an exploit :/

And if you really want to nerf missiles, well Eden also has some uber units that could use some nerfing. :P
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Offline thablkpanda

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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2006, 03:37:54 PM »
Not really- Eden's big thing is Thor's Hammer, and we only mass produce them to the extent that all other units are mass produced. All Thor's is is another weapon to use in force.

We can continue this uber weapon thing forever- note that ESGs in force are incredibly deadly. Try firing 5 ESG's in the same spot, and running an enemy tiger over them- it won't make it from one side to another. And it's even worse standing still.

I suggest nerfing missles, or just agreeing not to use them pre-game or not to use them in great force.

And the only reason the Meteor Defense exploit is being used, is to combat the exploit of mass-missling. So again, we're in a Catch 22 here- damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Chris

Offline Sl0vi

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« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2006, 04:02:19 PM »
Sorry, but I don't really see the difference between mass producing thors and mass producing missiles, their both weapons of war. And not building missiles, means you pretty much give up your greatest advantage against an Eden player with lots of thors.

ehm.. if your thinking about the one where you idle and activate meteor defences, I'm not sure if I would consider it an exploit myself.

The one I was thinking about works in plymouths favor.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2006, 05:21:02 PM »
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Not really- Eden's big thing is Thor's Hammer, and we only mass produce them to the extent that all other units are mass produced. All Thor's is is another weapon to use in force.

Thors dont have that great over all effect that the missile does.  Plus look at all the great units that PLY has ESG RPG STICKY.   Edens only pride is the thor.  Rail sucks laser sucks acid does to much self damage.

Using a EMP missile to stop ore trucks is ok but it can aggitate people if thats all your doing.  As long as you dont bomb the agridomes and starve some one out.

I just have a problem with the multi missiles.  Carpet bombing is a strategy yes.  Eden cant leave there base because of multimissile carpet bombing.  What good is a thors hammer (that you all FEAR) if it is emped to a eden player.  To win you still need to use your units and you still have to deal with the thors hammer and meteor defs.  ESG is a uber weapon that has a better damage in a the mass unit then a thors hammer does because of its area attack.  mix ESG with EMP (NOT THE MISSILE) and RPG and you got a hefty force.  

Maybe some of you ply players should play eden and let yourself get bombed by missiles in every game out of the fear of losing to the thors.  Like the countries of today with there nukes. Plymouth emulates them with there EMP missiles and getting mass quanities of them.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2006, 06:34:45 PM »
Thors are not the be all end all weapon.

Get enough EMPs and you can take them out with only lasers / mics.

And I agree with Hooman. He is grounded in the mantra of opportunity cost :P

It can be a pain in the ass. Of course, it works best on small bases where they only have one mining operation (thus knocking out their total ore).

It might produce enough of an advantage (for example, they might have their attention drawn from production as they reset ore routes long enough to punch a hole in their base).

Offline TH300

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« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2006, 12:52:55 AM »
So, could we do something against the power of missiles? give meteor defenses a 100% hit chance, or probably increase build-time for missiles so that they can't be used so often.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2006, 12:53:15 AM by TH300 »

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2006, 07:15:41 AM »
The build time increase would be easy, you could edit the techtree to do it.
As for increasing the chances of missiles being stopped, I'm not sure exactly what that would entail (yet). It wouldn't be as easy as a simple tech tree hack.

I wouldn't want to do either change to the original game, I'd welcome it in a mod or something however.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2006, 10:49:22 AM »
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Freeza-CII Posted on Feb 1 2006, 01:21 AM
Using a EMP missile to stop ore trucks is ok but it can aggitate people if thats all your doing. As long as you dont bomb the agridomes and starve some one out.

Please tell me your joking Freeza ? Using EMP Missiles to starve some.. ?  :rolleyes:

Come on guys, where did strategic sense and use of formations and tactics go ?  :blink:






 
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2006, 12:58:21 PM »
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Freeza-CII Posted on Feb 1 2006, 01:21 AM
Using a EMP missile to stop ore trucks is ok but it can aggitate people if thats all your doing. As long as you dont bomb the agridomes and starve some one out.

Please tell me your joking Freeza ? Using EMP Missiles to starve some.. ?  :rolleyes:

Come on guys, where did strategic sense and use of formations and tactics go ?  :blink:
Paco did that to me once (at least he tried to. then he became bored and scout-rushed me)

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2006, 01:51:34 PM »
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Paco did that to me once (at least he tried to. then he became bored and scout-rushed me)
I guess the keywords here is TRIED and SCOUTRUSH. If he can Scoutrush you, don't you think he could have found an easier/quicker way to kill you if he wanted ?
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Offline lordly_dragon

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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2006, 03:49:15 PM »
i would say that emp missile should have a 25% hit penality vs lynx 10 for the panter and 5 for the tiger. thus would even the ods for using it.

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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2006, 11:36:10 AM »
I think people just need to use them alot less

Offline Tellaris

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« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2006, 12:42:01 AM »
I'd like to point out at this point that the base disabled time of structures is reduced by DIRTs, much in the same way that damage is reduced...
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2006, 01:01:27 PM »
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I'd like to point out at this point that the base disabled time of structures is reduced by DIRTs, much in the same way that damage is reduced...
I didn't know. But -25% is not much of a difference if your oppenent mass-missiles you.

Offline Ezekel

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« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2006, 10:15:23 AM »
been reading through this thread, and it kinda struck me, why not just make stationary turrets immune to EMP - thus not only giving them a use, but also allowing them to carry out their function of delaying an attack while you recover.

true it isn't the perfect defense, but you don't want a perfect defense in a game, or there'd be no point playing. (as one side would always win)

while on that note of useless units. Scouts do have 2 uses.
one is the same as light towers "enemy unit detected" or something like that.
the other is the spy ability which, although its pretty useless, as if you can get a scout to there base you can likely hit the CC with a starflare or 2, is still an ability.
this isn' the thread to discuss scouts though. so i won't continue down that path.

personally i think that EMP missiles are fine how they are. meteor defense and observatory do need some looking into though as they are clearly sub par.

i think the key is to not power game, and remember to play fair. i'd rather keep my thor's groups to circa 20 units personally then swamp them with more (for example).
if you want lots of units and lots of super weapons i'd suggest playing TA instead of OP2.
(just my opinion. i'm sure people like lev would disagree, based on the movies i've seen of his gameplay).

anywho, if you are gonna missile spam, just remember to expect the exact same thing back at you in future games.
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Offline Starfox00000

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« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2006, 04:11:36 PM »
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you could be researching 2 topics with the scientists it takes to run 1 spaceport
Yeah, if you were reasearching each topic with one scientist. rofl - spaceports only takes 2 scientists.

Offline Slaughter (PhodoX)

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« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2006, 08:57:35 PM »
Missiles are damn useful. They're Plymouh pride, just as the thors. Even through RPGs and ESGs rocks, EMP missiles are part of Plymouth cunning way of fighting. Eden is more like "Slash and Burn".
 
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Offline Aldair01

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« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2006, 08:40:22 PM »
lol

I like missiles, but I play Eden because a lot of people don't like them. It's funny when Arklon and Bomber start 'n00b'ing out you when you start winning with them.

Offline BlackBox

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Emp Missle Theory
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2006, 02:06:14 PM »
As usual. If they can't learn, they'll learn the hard way (be punished by one of the ops).

People need to stop whining when others use missiles. They are only using missiles because you let them get far enough along to build a spaceport.