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Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Re: Military Strategies
« Last post by Crow! on Today at 06:53:05 AM »
You can find one series of 1v1 matches on Pie Chart from a while ago if you look on youtube.

To my knowledge and recollection, the early game is generally defined by the Stickyfoam weapon, which ensures that vehicle losses are minimal, but which can kill any struture with impunity if given enough time.  The midgame is defined by the ESG and its ability to encourage poking, since its effective range against an enemy that isn't paying attention is 9, but it does poorly when chasing into an opponent who is also using ESGs.  The late game is defined by the EMP missile and its ability to break stalemates.  High speed units like supernova lynxes and spiders suddenly gain some extra relevance, but having a tiger backbone to the army is also needed or else you lose any fights where EMP missiles didn't exactly hit their mark.

Eden's window of relevance is extremely narrow.  They can just cross their fingers and hope the enemy doesn't notice a starflare attack in the early game, or they have one moment just after the advent of Thors when the enemy will likely not have EMP missiles yet and armies might still be small enough that the Thor does better than the ESG.  Aside from that one weapon, Eden has inferior DPS and zero tactically interesting options that Plymouth doesn't also have.

Is your target for this AI a multiplayer opponent or a single player opponent, by the way?  If single player, just be aware that when making a stage with an Eden opponent, it'll need to have access to / start with more stuff than Plymouth would to be a challenge.
Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Re: Military Strategies
« Last post by TechCor on Today at 06:00:29 AM »
Don't forget tube cutting  ;)
I mean, I'll admit the things I listed might be considered cheese tactics, but that's so dirty, it never even crossed my mind!

That led to me looking it up, and discovering SirBomber ranting complaining that Eden sucks. Acid clouds < ESG, Railgun < RPG, EMP missile end games, etc. Interesting, to be sure, but hard to breakdown into tactical descriptions.

It sounded like there were many fun multiplayer games back in the day. If only people recorded some of these...
Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Re: Military Strategies
« Last post by Hooman on Today at 12:06:32 AM »
Don't forget tube cutting  ;)
Projects / Re: OP2 Game Flow Redesign (PhaseShift v0.4.0 released!)
« Last post by Crow! on April 24, 2019, 10:18:24 PM »
Sure.  Here's the file.  I placed it in with the other files in the PhaseShift folder, and I told the mission to play sound sample 167 along with the message, but I got "Struture Lost", the unmodified version of the sound sample, instead.
Projects / Re: OP2 Game Flow Redesign (PhaseShift v0.4.0 released!)
« Last post by Vagabond on April 24, 2019, 08:22:16 PM »

Could you post your new sound effect for troubleshooting? I've never attempted to replace a sound effect before so would need to look at it to give advice. Unsure if op2ext will pickup the new sound effect without testing.

Projects / Re: OP2 Game Flow Redesign
« Last post by Crow! on April 24, 2019, 04:01:48 PM »
Phase Shift v0.4.0 is done, and is attached to this post!  A summary of the changes is here, too.

A couple outstanding coding issues remain, both regarding the hookup with op2ext:
- op2ext did not replace savnt213.wav, even though it was in the mod folder.  I might be misunderstanding how a .wav file replacement is done.  I want the mine depletion alert to say "Mining location diminishing," but instead it will just make the smelter selection noise.
- As noted by Vagabond above, there is some new functionality I'm waiting on; once it is ready, there should not need to be the separate vanilla vs phase shift versions of Ohana.  (For now, the PhaseShift download only contains the PhaseShift version of the map.)

Change log:
PhaseShift specific maps will now alert the player when a mine is running out.
A map specially designed for PhaseShift, Ohana, is now included with the mod!  (Bundled map version is 0.3)
Minor edits to Mine.txt to make it work better with the way the above mentioned alert is implemented.
Slight increase to mine "trickle" output after it has been depleted.
Initial maximum morale reduced; Medical Centers and the colony-specific morale topic effect on max morale increased.
   The important thing to know is that you must get something other than just Nursery and University tech to get beyond Poor morale.
Guard Post base price reduced.
Scorpion armor class is now None instead of Light.
Reduction of some buffs to Scorpion-related research rates.
EMP missile research cost and maximum scientist count increased.
Observatory's Scientist cost lowered.
Meteor Defense common metal, worker, and research costs lowered.

[EDIT] Replaced attachment with PhaseShift v0.4.1, which updates the Ohana map to version 0.4, which fixes an issue where Ohana's SE base's N wall wasn't solid.
Projects / Re: OP2 Scenario Project for C#
« Last post by TechCor on April 24, 2019, 03:44:05 PM »
Yes, it seems issuing any command to the truck will resolve it. The issue is detecting that the problem is happening in the first place.

I'm thinking maybe adding a timer linked to the unit index to determine if they have been on the dock idling too long. Maybe a tenth of a second with "moDone" is all that is needed to determine that it's "gone bad". Not as elegant of a solution as I was hoping for, but any fix is better than no fix.

This solution might work for the movement problem as well, if pixelX/pixelY is a reliable way of telling if a unit is moving.


Checking for "spinning wheels" and waiting 200 ticks before issuing a stop command seems to work. Wish this kind of handling was built into the engine, but whatever.
Projects / Re: OP2 Scenario Project for C#
« Last post by Crow! on April 24, 2019, 06:45:47 AM »
I've had the inability to unload cargo in the normal game from time to time.  The best way to fix it I've found is to order the truck to move onto the dock again, even if it's already on it.
Outpost 2 Divided Destiny / Military Strategies
« Last post by TechCor on April 24, 2019, 04:37:15 AM »
Hey all,

I am getting close to working on military tactics for my AI, and I would like to get some opinions from some of our top strategists here on Outpost Universe. ;)

While many players probably use a "deathball" macro type (mass Thor's Hammer tigers) or rush laser lynx, I actually want to look into some more micro type tactics, since the AI will more or less be able to handle multiple groups simultaneously. The goal is to be interesting, offer rush, mid-game, and long-play strategies and styles of play. The AI can assess combat situations and retreat, evade, and harass, or use frontal assaults if substantially stronger than the opponent.

On top of this, I want to really make use of as many types of units as possible. I am aware that some units are kinda "duds", or become useless with later research due to poor balancing, but perhaps they can be used under very specialized circumstances without sacrificing a win. If someone has deep insight into the specialization that each unit would be good at, please post about it!

Also helpful, if any of you awesome people could send me links to videos of multiplayer games where players are on an even skill level, I would much appreciate it! This would also help give me an idea of base priorities as well as tactics, so that the AI can keep up with people like you! Videos of a variety of play lengths, styles and maps are also welcome.


Bomber-Escort Group
About 1-3 Starflare or Supernova with 4-6 EMP (optional).

The idea would be to run this group with other stronger groups to a set distance away from the enemy base. The AI will assess weak points in the enemy base and attempt to move bomber groups towards poorly defended critical infrastructure such as mining and power. If the AI determines that defenses will arrive before detonation, the group will retreat.

This group will typically not attack without other groups making a push, and therefore defenders would likely need to split forces to engage the flanking bomber squadron(s) while dealing with primary forces. This tactic will also trigger if the enemy makes a major attack. The bombers will attempt to navigate around the attacking forces and hit major structures or the CC.

This group will typically run with lights off, but will turn lights on if enemy units are on an intercept course, or it is clear the bombs will reach the target before any defenders can stop it.

Harassment Group
About 3-4 structure damaging lynx.

This is an early game tactic for pissing players off. Instead of directly attacking your defenders, this group will actively avoid them while maneuvering towards other undefended units and structures. The goal is not to kill, but to do as much damage as possible. The group will only retreat if it is no longer possible to attack without taking damage. It will then hang out and patrol around your base, especially between nearby mining beacons. This group can grow in size and begin attacking lightly defended targets, if it determines it will win the battle. If it grows large enough, it will disband and become part of an assault group.

Assault Group
Any number and mix of units.

This is the main attack group. It primarily performs map control and defense. When this group is stronger than other enemy forces, it will engage them. If this group is stronger than ALL of the enemy's forces combined, all other groups are disbanded and join this group for a frontal assault.

If the enemy is splitting forces, this group may break into separate assault groups to attack and defend multiple points. The split groups will always be stronger than the enemy's groups. If splitting the group will result in a group that is too weak, the split does not happen. Instead, the assault group will attack based on the following conditions:

A. If the enemy is on an intercept course with a base, and it is possible to destroy the enemy base before they destroy its own, attack the enemy base, otherwise defend the base.

B. If the enemy is splitting forces, but is not heading towards a base, attack the enemy base is winning is possible, if not, attack the nearest weakest force. Otherwise, find optimal map control position (between own base, enemy groups, and enemy base).
Projects / Re: OP2 Scenario Project for C#
« Last post by TechCor on April 24, 2019, 01:29:28 AM »
I ended up going with a LabData struct with a direct pointer to the first variable's address.

Base, Labor and Research management are all at a nice first draft. Currently going through now and fixing bugs and adding extras such as DIRT, geocon, and magma well handling. Then I'll move onto task priorities, customization and finally combat management.

Looking forward to doing real world tests in the next month or so.

I really want to get this unit stuck bug fixed, so I no longer need to "help" the AI occasionally.

I'm thinking the best way is to find out where the unit is trying to move. If I knew that, I could check if it is occupied. Is there a way to get the adjacent tile that the unit is trying to move into? This would be different from its final destination. Then I could check if there is something in the way, and how to handle it.

The other "stuck" situation seems to be due to a bug in "UnloadCargo". 1 in 50 times, UnloadCargo will fail to trigger, and can't even be triggered manually in the agridome or smelter pane despite *not* being grayed out. I can't seem to figure out the pattern, but I've yet to see it happen while only a single cargo truck is trying to dock at the same port, making me think it happens when another truck is trying to push the one on the dock off. The truck on the dock reports "moDone", but building.UnloadCargo() is ignored. This bug is only an issue for Land Rush type games where you need to unload food and metals. Ore doesn't require UnloadCargo(), and therefore the bug never happens there.
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