New Weapons

[Tramis]

I believe ESG accomplishes the same thing.

[Rags]

maybe we could have a new form of delivery system. Like the emp missile from the spaceport except this is like a missile or explosive which spreads emp mines in a concentrated amount in a fixed radius. that could be very effective. Especially when you want to concentrate on building non emp tanks.  

[Rags]

my sincerst apologies for double posting again but I had not read the multiple missile launch topic below in the list. I had come up with this idea by my self and if you read the post it is quite different.

[Freeza-CII]

We really dont need more ICBMs

[Rags]

It is not a freakin ICBM. Its a harmless delivery system which spreads emp devices in a fixed radius

[Freeza-CII]

Its a rocket that flys very high up and comes down. ICBM.  Why do we need another EMP missile.

[Exile]

I liked the idea of the chain gun i was thinking about them adding that to OP2 but yeah that works pipe organ looks like it could own a army by itself as for putting long range weapons i'd say no yes it's a fair strat but to many games have them you can own your enemy with a  long range weapon volly and then all his stuff doesn't do much and one thing this game(OP2) always had going for it was there was no way of sweet talking your way out of fighting your enemys army no super weapons just your guns to his guns. have a better combo or whatever or just have a nasty jack in the box for him clean and simple besides some people spam long range weapons true OP3 needs to be diffrent but adding a few other things can do this without throwing the combat out of balance like some things can

[Kurgan]

Anyway, on topic... The mine-laying ICBMs. I think this might be a good idea. They'd be rather expensive, moreso than EMP missiles, and they'd be for both sides instead of only one. It works essentially like an ESG, only permanent effect until a vec rolls over it. ESGs are limited in range, and they do not prove to be that effective of a defence, at least in my experience.  <_<
They'd be slightly limited range, instead of infinate so it decreases the likelyhood of being bombarded with even-more-annoying-than-EMP missiles.  :blink:
EMP mines at strategic locations can prove a viable defence in the long run, so can starflare mines at choke-points across the map.
Maybe a scout, or a specialized vec can scan the mines if it gets close enough. Then the specialized vehic or an entirely different vec can come dispose and difuse them.
I think it would be very effective, and even more of a deterent from attacking than a standing defence of Tigers.

-Kurgan Out.- :op2:

[Rags]

yes absolutely.

Its a rocket that flys very high up and comes down. ICBM. Why do we need another EMP missile.

you are not trying to understand. Its not a missile wich can be fired anywhere. It would be like a box which when dropped of by a vehicle or fired using air (why not) spreads single use emp mines in a small radius.

[White Claw]

Doesnt make any sence to have those when you can have a Sticky foam that isnt a one time use and it can move.

Well, placing mines could be cheaper than having a standing mass of tanks. They would be useful for slowing down an incomming force so you could relocate your own vechs to meet them.  

[Freeza-CII]

maybe we could have a new form of delivery system. Like the emp missile from the spaceport except this is like a missile or explosive which spreads emp mines in a concentrated amount in a fixed radius. that could be very effective. Especially when you want to concentrate on building non emp tanks.

What the hell is there to understand you said it your self.  From the starport like a emp missile.

The emp missile is harmless till it explodes over head.  Having more Missiles superiority is very very bad.  If you want to EMP some thing with a missile use a emp missile.  EMP mines from a vec It doesnt make any since when you can just emp with right away with a lynx/panther/tiger/emp missile.  ESG dont shut down the vec it hurts them.  There is enough EMP weapons in the game.

[dm-horus]

if the EMP mines are persistent and hang around for a while, it might makes things interesting. but i still dont see how you could fit it in the game. i keep noticing alot of C&C ideas working their way in.

[Combine Crusier]

I hope I don't upset anyone.
I was thinking of getting plymouth a kind of railgun which is called a gauss cannon
which fires an explosive projectile at over 3x the normal speed of a railgun. This could also be implemented into artillery (if the planet has sufficent gravity). Another form of weapon I'm interested in is acid, I beleive it would challenging to give Eden a form of organic acid capable of destroying anything in a single shot (this is almost like a nanite cannon) The only problem is, is that it's range would be limited due to issues with heat killing the organic components of the acid.

Also some other interesting weapons would be a lava grenade, Sonic Disruptor, pulse laser,and ion cannon, decapitator beam.

Plymouth                                          
Gauss / ROF slow / FP Ultra High / Range Ultra Long
Artillery / ROF very Slow / FP High  / Range Extreme
pulse laser / ROF very Fast / FP light / Range Medium
Ion cannon / ROF Medium / FP Medium / Range Long
decapitator beam / ROF Ultra High / FP Insane / Range Very Long
Eden
Organic Acid Launcher / ROF slow / FP Insane / Range Long
Lava Grenade / ROF very slow / FP Insane / Range Medium
Sonic Disruptor / ROF very slow / FP Very heavy / Short

[Tramis]

Artillery is pretty much agreed on that its a bad idea.

Unless...

The main problem with it is ppl spam it like crazy.  So...what if it didn't do damage but instead had some other adverse effect?  I'm talking like, instead of an explosive shell it launched a beacon that jams communications and makes it so you can't give orders or select them.  They DO still carry out any orders they were given beforehand, and they AREN't EMP'd, so they are still combat-capable, you just can't tell them what to do.  If they happen to just be sitting there when they get hit with this, they would automatically run after the beacon dude - out of the range of the beacon, so you can tell them to pull back out, or keep rushing, or whatever.

Or perhaps a stickyfoam artillery, that explodes in the air so it does no damage, but sticky's everything in a wide radius (but less stickyfoam would land on each one so it would be sticky'd for less time)?  Or would these be spam-able too?

Also that decapitator beam is ridiculous.

[Combine Crusier]

The decapitator beam is the most powerful and expensive weapon and like the artillery can only be mounted on single gunned platforms. Also it requires a LOT of research! The fact is some of these could be single player only weapons. Also the artillery could be forced to build a temporary structure like a miner to fire but unpack when ordered to.

[Rags]

how about something that produces a sound wave that buckles metal, or a bomb like the one jango fett uses in episode2 when obi wan is chasing him and his son throught the asteroid field??

[Tramis]

That bomb (i think they called em seismic charges or something) is sexy.  However, I highly doubt it would be good for OP3.  It doesn't fit.

A sound gun is an awesome idea though, and imo fits it pretty well.

And forcing artillery to be immobile while firing doesn't help.  Tiberian Sun proved that.  I still think that if artillery is used at all, it should have be a normal turret but not be something that does damage.  And, the thors hammer is expensive and requires a lot of research, doesnt stop people from spamming that.

[Combine Crusier]

Eden get the sonic disruptor which is a sonic weapon.

[White Claw]

Any weapon that could possibly be imagined would get spammed. Why wouldn't you build an army of the best units. How frustrated did people get with unit caps. How about frustration with unit caps in Warcraft III? SC? If this game only had Laser/Microwave Lynx, people would mass build those too.  

[Combine Crusier]

Please specify your point.

[Rags]

Umm could the point possibly be that you can spam with any good weapon that is already there and so it is pointless to exclude weapons from the game on the basis of their "spamability" ??

[White Claw]

Umm could the point possibly be that you can spam with any good weapon that is already there and so it is pointless to exclude weapons from the game on the basis of their "spamability" ??

That's exactly my point. You need to consider several new weapons ideas and then match up ones that balance eachother out. If you only ever consider one weapon at a time, it will always unbalance the game. And if you can think of something that won't cause an imbalance, then there's probably going to be complaints that it's a waste of time to impliment because it doesn't add anything to the game.

[Combine Crusier]

What does Spam mean?

[Tramis]

Spamming weapons is where you build about 999999999999 of them, and use only that.  Particularly when the unit isn't meant to be used in such numbers, but just in small amounts to bolster your existing forces.  Usually, even with such a focused army with no variety, you still have about a 99% chance of winning.  ie, if I were to build thors hammer tigers and nothing else, and you have a good mixture of ESG, Supernova, RPG etc, u would still have a chance to win, but not a very good one, unless you used some crazyass strategy, and even then itd be tricky.  Spamming weapons detracts from the game a LOT imo.

[White Claw]

Perhaps an even better example of spam is the EMP missile. When you build about five or six spaceports, you can continue to rain EMP missiles on a base and ruin they're production capacity and colony management without bothering to attack. The point being that you weren't meant to have that many space ports. But since you're allowed to and it's a viable tactic, why not? Because it's annoying and makes the game un-fun. What's worse is you can build and maintain six spaceports with no more people than it takes to run one. (Just keep the ports with EMP missiles Idle until you need to launch.)

That's why so many people are very vocal against super weapons. Because no matter what you do, a super weapon will become an overly dominant factor in gameplay (more than it was intended). Then you propose to put so many limits on a superweapon that it just becomes pointless. It's a big balancing act...

Particularly when the unit isn't meant to be used in such numbers, but just in small amounts to bolster your existing forces.

Yeah, I think OP2 was designed for gamebalance in the single player campaign and colony games (which is how I like it). But it has some issues for multi (not that I've played much).