Do you believe...

[Zircon]

All the interesting people are according to you boiling away in hell, scientists, Einstein (although his attitude was really bad it would still be nice to meet the odd guy ), Aristotle, etc etc...

"See u at the Pole" Never heard of it, i doubt anyone has ever heard of it over here.
Schools and state are separated from religion over here, but then again i do live in the "forsaken" lands  ^_^  

[ZeusBD]

I did give it time to load.....religion is seperate here to, that's why it was never school sponsered......and there are many interesting people in heaven...And God let's human's make their own choice, so of course there will be some people that don't obey him and sin.

[Zircon]

Just out of curiosity who exactly are these "interesting" people in heaven?

[ZeusBD]

depends on who you would consider interesting....I consider Jesus and his disicples interesting.

[Betaray]

it must be one heck of a long line to see jesus, I mean, just think, of all the people that have died in 2000 years, and everyone in heaven wants to see him

and I thought the mosh pits of a concert were crouded, going to see jesus DAMN!!!!

[CK9]

Garrettsgirl, I find it very funny, thinking about Thor being that hyper, lol

I find philosophers interesting, and the best ones in history are in Limbo (which, by the way, is where the Dante's Inferno quiz places me, lol)

[CK9]

oops, sorry garretsgirl, wrong page:

http://godschool.keenspace.com/d/20040804.html

http://godschool.keenspace.com/

 

[jesusfreak06]

well, i don't think that those comics r funny (just my own opinion). well, now u have heard of "c y at the pole" day and now u can spread the news all u want (whether ur saying how pathetic u think we r or just saying ur proud of us u r b/c we went all out 4 what we believe in). i had fun doin it and in no the people there had fun too. . well, that's all folks. lol. i'm a dork

Love u all in Christ (i'm gona get some interesting commemnts on this one i hope),
ME

[CK9]

oh well, I thought you just ent that oe becayuse satan got in for drawing a pony once (I personaly thought that was funny).  As soon as my head stops pounding I'll read the rest of your post and see if I have any "interesting commemnts" to give
 

[jesusfreak06]

actually, that was the only one i thought was funny (the one w/ satan and the pic). but other than that, the other ones i read were terrible...lol, ur head was pounding.

[ZeusBD]

I get the main page to show up, but nothing after that.

[CK9]

well zues, some firewalls prevent some coding...

BTW, garrettsgirl (now an ironic name IMHO) I plead the fifth to your gathering

[Luweeg64]

Well if science is going to prove religion wrong, tell me. How did life originate in the first place?

There has had to have been some outside sources, just like when God put the big bang into motion.

lol big bang lol it's sounds funny

[CK9]

not as funny as a screen I saw the other day: Big Toot

How do we know your god isn't the same as the A.I. in The Matrix? If he exists, let him prove it to me right now, show me some sign that tells me I really should have faith in him/her (remember, it was a man who wrote the bible, and they wanted women to remain subserviant at the time)

[Zircon]

Well if science is going to prove religion wrong, tell me. How did life originate in the first place?

There has had to have been some outside sources, just like when God put the big bang into motion.

lol big bang lol it's sounds funny

While i guess i could write a summary of every way life could have began but i wont because i dont have the time or ambition to try and explain it to someone that will place their hands upon their head and scream "lalalalalalala"
(Not necessarily pointing at luweeg but judging from the rest of the thread most people react that way)

Plasma Blobs
By David Cohen

Physicists have created blobs of gaseous plasma that can grow, replicate and communicate - fulfilling most of the traditional requirements for biological cells. Without inherited material they cannot be described as alive, but the researchers believe these curious spheres may offer a radical new explanation for how life began.

Most biologists think living cells arose out of a complex and lengthy evolution of chemicals that took millions of years, beginning with simple molecules through amino acids, primitive proteins and finally forming an organised structure. But if Mircea Sanduloviciu and his colleagues at Cuza University in Romania are right, the theory may have to be completely revised. They say cell-like self-organisation can occur in a few microseconds.

The researchers studied environmental conditions similar to those that existed on the Earth before life began, when the planet was enveloped in electric storms that caused ionised gases called plasmas to form in the atmosphere.

They inserted two electrodes into a chamber containing a low-temperature plasma of argon - a gas in which some of the atoms have been split into electrons and charged ions. They applied a high voltage to the electrodes, producing an arc of energy that flew across the gap between them, like a miniature lightning strike.

Sanduloviciu says this electric spark caused a high concentration of ions and electrons to accumulate at the positively charged electrode, which spontaneously formed spheres (Chaos, Solitons & Fractals, vol 18, p 335). Each sphere had a boundary made up of two layers - an outer layer of negatively charged electrons and an inner layer of positively charged ions.

Trapped inside the boundary was an inner nucleus of gas atoms. The amount of energy in the initial spark governed their size and lifespan. Sanduloviciu grew spheres from a few micrometres up to three centimetres in diameter.

Split in two

A distinct boundary layer that confines and separates an object from its environment is one of the four main criteria generally used to define living cells. Sanduloviciu decided to find out if his cells met the other criteria: the ability to replicate, to communicate information, and to metabolise and grow.

He found that the spheres could replicate by splitting into two. Under the right conditions they also got bigger, taking up neutral argon atoms and splitting them into ions and electrons to replenish their boundary layers.

Finally, they could communicate information by emitting electromagnetic energy, making the atoms within other spheres vibrate at a particular frequency. The spheres are not the only self-organising systems to meet all of these requirements. But they are the first gaseous "cells".

Sanduloviciu even thinks they could have been the first cells on Earth, arising within electric storms. "The emergence of such spheres seems likely to be a prerequisite for biochemical evolution," he says.

Temperature trouble

That view is "stretching the realms of possibility," says Gregoire Nicolis, a physical chemist at the University of Brussels. In particular, he doubts that biomolecules such as DNA could emerge at the temperatures at which the plasma balls exist.

However, Sanduloviciu insists that although the spheres require high temperature to form, they can survive at lower temperatures. "That would be the sort of environment in which normal biochemical interactions occur."

But perhaps the most intriguing implications of Sanduloviciu's work are for life on other planets. "The cell-like spheres we describe could be at the origin of other forms of life we have not yet considered," he says. Which means our search for extraterrestrial life may need a drastic re-think. There could be life out there, but not as we know it.

UV Light sparks life

By Shaoni Bhattacharya

Ultra-violet light, long thought to be an impediment to the early formation of long organic molecules, may in fact hold the key to the origin of life, according to a new study.

Intense UV rays from a young Sun bombarded the early Earth and were thought likely to destroy any exposed organic molecules. But a new mathematical model implies the radiation actually helped select out the molecular seeds of life.

The earliest life on Earth is widely thought to have been based on RNA, the chemical cousin of DNA. RNA is made of subunits called nucleotides, which link together to form long polymer chains.

Certain components of RNA absorb UV light and act as "protectors", thereby giving it a survival advantage over other molecules, says Armen Mulkidjanian. Mulkidjanian, a biophysicist at Osnabrück University in Germany, led the team that developed the theoretical model.

"Simple RNA molecules can evolve under certain conditions - this is a well-developed field. But the question left is: how do you get the first long enough RNA polymer?" says Mulkidjanian. "Our model offers some physically plausible explanation of how long RNA polymers could emerge."

"This paper is important because it attacks that crucial problem," says Michael Yarus, an RNA world expert at the University of Colorado at Boulder. "If this problem could really be solved in a way that people agreed on, the RNA world would become a fact rather than a speculation."

Peculiar properties

Life on Earth is thought to have evolved about 3.7 billion years ago, when there was no protective ozone layer encasing the planet and UV radiation was 100 times more intense than today.

The nucleotides that make up RNA have three components - a sugar, a phosphate and nitrogen-containing base. "And these bases have very peculiar properties of being extremely efficient at quenching UV light," says Mulkidjanian, protecting the sugar and phosphate components which form the spine of the chain.

The team fed data on the photochemistry of various organic molecules into a computer model designed to simulate the effects of UV light on stability. "The effect was very pronounced in RNA," he says. In the presence of strong UV light, RNA was much more likely to form long chains than other molecules.

"The suggested mechanism turns the high UV levels on primordial Earth from a perceived obstacle to the origin of life into the selective factor that, in fact, might have driven the whole process," write the team in BMC Evolutionary Biology.

The UV light could even encourage polymerisation, adds Mulkidjanian. There is a small probability that RNA bases hit by UV light may be energised for a split second to a state where they can chemically react with another molecule to form another link in the chain, he says.

Yarus told New Scientist that, although the study was theoretical, it might provide a "fantastic service" in stimulating experimental work to explore how RNA polymers might have formed in a young, UV-illuminated world.

Journal reference: BMC Evolutionary Biology (May issue)

No moon, no life on Earth.

By Anil Ananthaswamy

Without the Moon, there would have been no life on Earth.

Four billion years ago, when life began, the Moon orbited much closer to us than it does now, causing massive tides to ebb and flow every few hours. These tides caused dramatic fluctuations in salinity around coastlines which could have driven the evolution of early DNA-like biomolecules.

This hypothesis, which is the work of Richard Lathe, a molecular biologist at Pieta Research in Edinburgh, UK, also suggests that life could not have begun on Mars.

According to one theory for the origin of life, self-replicating molecules such as DNA or RNA emerged when small precursor molecules in the primordial "soup" polymerised into long strands. These strands served as templates for more precursor molecules to attach along the templates, creating double-stranded polymers similar to DNA.

But the whole theory fails without some way of breaking apart the double strands to keep the process going, says Lathe. It would take some external force to dissociate the two strands, he says.

Doubling up

As an analogy, he points to PCR, the technique used to amplify DNA in the lab. DNA is cycled between two temperatures in the presence of appropriate enzymes.

At the lower temperature of about 50 °C, single DNA strands act as templates for synthesising complementary strands. At the higher temperature of about 100 °C, the double strands break apart, doubling the number of molecules. Lower the temperature, and the synthesis starts again. Using this process, a single DNA molecule can be converted into a trillion identical copies in just 40 cycles.

Lathe believes that thanks to the Moon, something similar happened during Earth's early years. Most researchers agree that the Moon formed five billion years ago from debris blasted off Earth in a giant impact.

A billion years later when life is thought to have arisen, the Moon was still much closer to us than it is now. That, plus the Earth's much more rapid rotation, led to tidal cycles every two to six hours, with tides extending several hundred kilometres inland, says Lathe. Coastal areas therefore saw dramatic cyclical changes in salinity, and Lathe believes this led to repeated association and dissociation of double-stranded molecules similar to DNA.

When the massive tides rolled in, the salt concentration was very low. Double-stranded DNA breaks apart under such conditions because electrically charged phosphate groups on each strand repel each other.

But when the tides went out, precursor molecules and precipitated salt would have been present in high concentrations. This would have encouraged double-stranded molecules to form, since high salt concentrations neutralise DNA's phosphate charges, allowing strands to stick together.

Unrelenting cycles

These unrelenting saline cycles would have amplified molecules such as DNA in a process similar to PCR, says Lathe. "The tidal force is absolutely important, because it provides the energy for association and dissociation [of polymers]."

Many researchers do not believe DNA and RNA were the first replicating molecules. Graham Cairns-Smith of the University of Glasgow, UK, thinks much simpler "genetic" material formed first, from the crystallisation of clay minerals.

But he says Lathe's idea deserves attention. "Whatever the replicating entities were that started the evolutionary process, it would be significant that they lived in an environment in which the conditions were changing."

If the theory is right, life could not have evolved on Mars, says Lathe. Phobos, the larger of Mars's two Moons, is so small that the tidal forces it generates are just one per cent of those generated by our Moon. "Even if there was water on Mars, life could not have evolved there because these polymers could not have replicated," he says.

Journal reference: Icarus (vol 168, p 18)

Asteroid impact craters could cradle life

An enormous asteroid might have killed the dinosaurs, but the craters left behind by such impacts may become burgeoning hotspots for life on Earth, and possibly even Mars, says a UK researcher.

Charles Cockell at the British Antarctic Survey presented data on rocks - thriving with microbial life - found in the Haugton Crater in the Canadian Arctic to the British Association for the Advancement of Science Festival in Exeter, UK, on Thursday.

The crater is the depression caused by an impact event 23 million years ago. The energy of the event is estimated at 100 million times the size of the Hiroshima atomic bomb.

“People usually associate impact events with destruction. But asteroids or comets might actually be good for life,” says Cockell.


Translucent rocks

Between 1998 and 2004, Cockell and his colleagues gathered rock specimens from the 24-kilometre-wide crater on Devon Island.

They found that much of the dark or opaque minerals, such as feldspar, had vaporised during the initial explosion. This left a several-centimetre thickness of near-translucent rocks, riddled with holes.

Back in the lab, they looked at the samples under both traditional and scanning electron microscopes and found them to be packed with microbes. Photosynthetic bacteria had colonised the translucent upper layer of the rocks, absorbing sunlight through clear silicate deposits.

As well as nurturing present day microbes, says Cockell, impact craters might even be responsible for the beginnings of life on Earth. The heat would have lasted for about 10,000 years and could have provided enough energy for simple organic compounds to form into more complex ones, such as amino acids, possibly even forming pre-biotic molecules.

“The good thing about a hole in the ground is that water seeps into it. So you’ve got water, organics and heat all in the same place, which is good for the evolution of life on Earth,” says Cockell.

The results suggest that meteorite craters may be one of the best places to look for life on other planets. Craters cover the surface of Mars, and there is evidence of liquid water in the red planet’s past, making it one of the most likely places for extraterrestrial life in the solar system.

Cockell also suggests that impact events may have temporarily melted any frozen water on Saturn's moon, Titan, potentially giving life a chance to thrive.

Life began in deep space http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-01d.html

Life began on the ocean floor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2541393.stm

While these are just a few of the many they are all viable theories.

To summarise "life" that is placed on the holy pedestal isn't that magnificent at all, as long as the basic materials are there life is unavoidable as it will "become" either you want it or not.

[CK9]

so life is kind of like one of the main theories when it comes o time travel: there will never be an inconsistacy in time that coul prevent you from leaving in the first place

[Zircon]

Kinda like that yes ^_^  

[Betaray]

very nice, I expecially liked the one on the plasma cells, I might reshurch those further

[CK9]

Beta, do not attempt to play god, many people in history have tried, many have been killed.

[ZeusBD]

awww...you care for Beta that much CK9?

Zircon....that was a very long post...I think I might wanna take a nap now.

[Betaray]

copy and paste can be mightyer than the sword

well the reason that the other people have been killd when they have tried to play god is because they were not imortal, I plan to allivate that little defect

[CK9]

but beta, "Without mortality life looses all manner of meaning and purpose."

and Zues, no, I just don't want to have beta trying to rule over me, lol

[BlackBox]

To summarise "life" that is placed on the holy pedestal isn't that magnificent at all, as long as the basic materials are there life is unavoidable as it will "become" either you want it or not.

so in other words you're trying to say that if you take and mix carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulfur that you'll get life forms? not true.

Miller and Urey tried it about 50 years ago. Yes they did get cell like things, and some basic amino acids, but these still were not living.

[Zircon]

so in other words you're trying to say that if you take and mix carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulfur that you'll get life forms? not true.

That including sunlight, water and heat and you'll (eventually might) get the first step in a lifeform yes.

(Just waits for that old lame argument to pop up that says "well you haven't yet turned a rabbit into a lion and i have yet to see a rock turn into an eagle " gibberish)

And dont even start with that other crap because it wont happen in five minutes, give it atleast 10000 years and you might have something... or not.

(Nitpicks: 10000 is merely for the pre-biotic molecules)

Yes they did get cell like things, and some basic amino acids, but these still were not living.

The carbon arranged themselves in organic compounds yes, while i can agree that those are merely "structures" and not living organisms they are one step on the way.

And by 1961 Juan Oro found that amino acids could be made from hydrogen cyanide and ammonia. The amounts of adenine it created is yet another step that would have to be incorporated with the organic compounds.

That plus a lot of other compounds eventually spit out life forms given enough time and the right circumstances. You have to have all pieces of the puzzle, not merely a small cornerstone that you showed.

(It is worth to note that Miller and Ureys experiment was flawed in a way because the composition they used for their experiment is not true for the young Earth, however their early experiment has created a blossom of more detailed and correct theories/facts/experiments and still remains in school books more as an "memorial" for the search in the origins of life.)

[jesusfreak06]

well, i haven't been on to read this 4 a while, and i am SUPRISED! wow, u guys have been busy (Beta trying to rule the world and Z using science to prove every statement made in this topic false).  well, i never though if u took a bunch of elements, heat, water, sun light, and thousands of years and put them in a container, cells would form... kwul. just goes to prove how great God made the universe, didn't He...  hey beta, y do u want to rule the world by being immortal when u can be incharge of many people by being a follower of Christ and leading them to Him through Him... just a thought...