Author Topic: Eve Tek Tank  (Read 26492 times)

Offline jcj94

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« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2010, 04:45:07 PM »
Just a few peoblems,
Tubes:
1, can be cut and, 2 earthworker can be killed.
CC:
1, can be EMP missled easier, 2 Convec can be killed (faste than active cc)

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2010, 04:55:40 PM »
Quote
Just a few peoblems,
Tubes:
1, can be cut and, 2 earthworker can be killed.
I won't go into how tube cutting is a cheap strategy but if you want to avoid this build redundant tubes to the expansion base. The earthworker problem can be solved by building multiple earthworkers (or preventing them from even getting combat units by your earthworker in the first place).

Quote
CC:
1, can be EMP missled easier, 2 Convec can be killed (faste than active cc)

If I remember correctly CCs are immune to EMP, and convecs should be protected when moving.

It sounds like you want to be lazy and not have to play the game the way it was meant to be played, tubes and CCs are pretty important parts of the game and removing the necessity for them would dumb down the game way too much (this is one of the things that sets OP2 apart from a lot of other RTSes).

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2010, 04:58:23 PM »
Only buildings with power demand can get EMPed.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2010, 05:54:35 PM »
well the PLANED way of doing this was that CC's would need even more people in the workforce just to operate any external buildings but as i said i gave up on a lot. if you want to know how much just ask fighter he has my original plans for Eve.
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2010, 05:54:47 PM »
Quite true. The CC actually generates 50 power, rather than consume power. Only buildings that consume power can be EMPed. You may notice that power plants are immune to EMP as well.

Edit: Btw, think of the effects if you could EMP a power plant. A lot of people build power plants close together. If they could be EMPed, then a single missile could take down an entire base due to lack of power. ... I'd thought about this a while back.  :)  
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 05:56:11 PM by Hooman »

Offline Kayedon

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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2010, 06:20:41 PM »
Quote
Edit: Btw, think of the effects if you could EMP a power plant. A lot of people build power plants close together. If they could be EMPed, then a single missile could take down an entire base due to lack of power. ... I'd thought about this a while back.  :)
Technically, you could "overload" most power generation facilities with an EMP blast. The magnetic part may disrupt MHD's, the electro part may turn off the solar satellite connection, and the entire thing might short-circuit a Tokamak.

But, that would make things too cheap.
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2010, 06:54:30 PM »
Actually, in reality, I hear EMP blasts are more likely to affect low power devices, such as silicon electronics. There's a reason many vacuum tube computers were kept operational during the cold war, even well after silicon based ones where much smaller, faster, and cheaper to operate. The vacuum tubes operated at over 100V (from what I heard), and were less susceptible to EMP.

I believe the ENIAC was designed to operate at 200V, with a safety factor of 2 for all components. (So they would still function correctly if operated in the 100V - 400V range). The reason for the needed tolerance, was partly because the machine was going to be so much larger than anything previously built, and thus the probability of a single component failing (and bringing down the whole machine) was much higher. Some estimates at the time suggested the machine would have about a 50% uptime.


But yes, in short, higher voltage means less chance an EMP wave will affect it. The reason I believe was that the changing magnetic field passing over the circuitry would induce a voltage in the wiring, and if the device was designed to operate at low voltages, this would cause the components to burn out. If the device was designed for high voltage operation however, it would be less likely to cause damage. If the induced voltage is comparable to the normal operating voltage, then it might cause some 0s to jump to 1s, which may lead to incorrect results, or the machine crashing, but a simple reboot would fix that. If the induced voltage wasn't very comparable to the normale operating voltage, than it might not even interrupt the execution of the machine.
 

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2010, 07:05:02 PM »
actually for once i understood what you said and yes that IS what happens. i built a device that upon destruction it Will wipe any electronic out. i wont tell you what it is because NO one beleaves that it is real and working. Arclon i do not want to continue the argument so PLEASE do not repeat the argument from irc thanks
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2010, 07:22:15 PM »
Quote
actually for once i understood what you said and yes that IS what happens. i built a device that upon destruction it Will wipe any electronic out. i wont tell you what it is because NO one beleaves that it is real and working. Arclon i do not want to continue the argument so PLEASE do not repeat the argument from irc thanks
You mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_p...ssion_generator ?

Somehow I sincerely doubt this, but feel free to provide proof or stop creating posts with claims that you refuse to back up.

And please don't try to suggest that it is powered by "everything" (you know, like the Sun?)

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2010, 02:46:54 AM »
Quote
Just a few peoblems,
Tubes:
1, can be cut and, 2 earthworker can be killed.
CC:
1, can be EMP missled easier, 2 Convec can be killed (faste than active cc)
Everything of importance must be defended. It's just that simple ;)
(That means defending earthworkers and convecs too if you must)

Yes, I agree tubecutting in the early game is kinda cheap, but if someone is utilizing a minebase half the map away with undefended tubes going between said mining outpost and the mainbase, I would have no worries about cutting it.  
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2010, 01:09:47 PM »
Quote
actually for once i understood what you said and yes that IS what happens. i built a device that upon destruction it Will wipe any electronic out. i wont tell you what it is because NO one beleaves that it is real and working. Arclon i do not want to continue the argument so PLEASE do not repeat the argument from irc thanks

you need to explain this. To me it sounds like you want it to wipe out the electronic data. IF so then i will say thats might be impossible because the savants are biomechanical. emps do not have the same effect on organisms

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #61 on: April 06, 2010, 07:45:25 AM »
The human brain uses electricity to pass messages  between the cells in the brain so in THEORY it is possible to emp any living organism IF the emp blast is powerful is powerful enough. now before you argue this i will say it is THEORY. It definitely works if you have a pacemaker.  
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #62 on: April 06, 2010, 07:48:49 AM »
a pace maker isnt a body part or a brain tho so thats not a very good point. And humans have been exposed to extremely large emp fields and not had a problem.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2010, 07:48:57 AM »
"A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing."

The human brain isn't a small electronic device.  And there's a difference between "electrical impulses" and "powered by everything electricity".
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2010, 07:52:40 AM »
I know that but IF this emp was extremely powerful(or highly concentrated then its effects on the components in the brain could and may be disastrous but the power to do that is currently beyond us
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2010, 07:55:26 AM »
Quote
the power to do that is impossible since organs don't work that way
Fixed.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2010, 07:58:52 AM »
I remember that at some point that i said it is THEORY. wait thats right i said that not an hour ago.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2010, 08:06:05 AM »
a weapon that is going to kill all humans by stopping there brains just so you can shut down savants seeeeeeeeeeems a bit powerful dont you think.  I think your better off sticking to conventional ways of shutting them down like blowing them up.

And its not really theory you could build a emp device that is finely tuned to the power levels of the human brain but at the same time it wont take every thing out and its range would probably be horrbile and to make it have range it would probably be easier to just point a magnetron at there head for a couple mins. But like i said taking out the savants means taking out the humans as well and thats just not going to happen i will not tolerate super weapons of any kind.

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2010, 08:08:22 AM »
And if it's false, you're just going to insist on it "being a theory"?

Well, applying electrical stimuli to a brain will kind of let you influence it. But only by overriding the brain's own electrical impulses, which by the way, run on chemical reactions and only leap very short distances.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2010, 08:11:20 AM »
i know that all that is why it is not very feasible unless you are making a spy movie. and even then it's a crappy idea.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2010, 08:11:56 AM »
ECC, just because you say it's a "theory" doesn't mean you can't get criticized for it, especially when you don't provide facts to support your claim.

Now, I will grant that some EMP weapons could be used against humans, but such weapons are non-lethal, generally just causing pain or nausea, and only after extended exposure would the effects be fatal.  This, however, is not because the EMP interferes with the brain; these effects are the result of neurons firing erroneously.  EMP destroys small electronics because it burns out its physical components by overloading the device with energy, not by "destroying its electricity" or some nonsense.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #71 on: April 06, 2010, 08:21:41 AM »
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i will not tolerate super weapons of any kind.
then what do you call the thors hammer and the supernova.
Quote
   ECC, just because you say it's a "theory" doesn't mean you can't get criticized for it, especially when you don't provide facts to support your claim.
i know that... and yet i do it anyway
Quote
Now, I will grant that some EMP weapons could be used against humans, but such weapons are non-lethal, generally just causing pain or nausea, and only after extended exposure would the effects be fatal. This, however, is not because the EMP interferes with the brain; these effects are the result of neurons firing erroneously. EMP destroys small electronics because it burns out its physical components by overloading the device with energy, not by "destroying its electricity" or some nonsense.
it is not destroying the electricity. just destroying the parts of the brain that cause the reactions in the first place. or in the case of electronics it fries the circuits that send and receive the electric pulses. and just cause it annoys you so much. IT IS JUST THEORY AT WORK HERE.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #72 on: April 06, 2010, 08:27:47 AM »
1) I love how every time we say "no superweapons" some fool says "LLOLOLOLOL WUT ABBOWT THRZ HAMMR".  Thor's Hammer/Supernova are not superweapons as, although they are indeed very powerful weapons, they're not nigh-unstoppable.  For examples of real superweapons, see nuclear weapons (or above), giant killer robots, Godzilla, planet-destroying weapons, EMP Missiles, a weaponized form of the Blight, or an EMP blast that instantly kills all vehicles, structures, and people it hits.

2) Your logic and argument skills need work.

3) Yeah, because frying electronic components is so much harder than frying the human brain.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #73 on: April 06, 2010, 08:32:38 AM »
ya but what do you do if you are playing against an army of 32 thors hammer tigers with a human controlling them... one with more skill then my brother. one that is just like you or better
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Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2010, 08:34:00 AM »
Go learn how the brain works, it shall clear everything up.

A super weapon is the kind that is over-the-top effective and/or hard to eliminate.

Thor's hammer? Tough,yes, but you can take out an army of Thor any chassis with an equivalent army of different weapons and combinations. And its range is only one tile longer than the next longest range weapon, which happens to be an AOE weapon, that can bridge that gap by firing right next to the Thor unit. Fails the super weapons test.

Supernova? If you let it get close enough (read, if it gets past 5-6 tiles of late-game weapon ranges), then yes, it will pack a punch. Fails the super weapon test because it can be prevented by paying attention.


EDIT: Skill is NOT a super weapon. You can always gain your own skill, in time. A super weapon usually has no real counter, yet here you have a few.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 08:35:51 AM by Hidiot »
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