Author Topic: Bithium Ore  (Read 9750 times)

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« on: February 13, 2007, 01:40:39 PM »
Ok Combine Cruiser

Put all the details about Bithium how you find it and such even atomic weight if you want.

Offline Combine Crusier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Bithium Ore
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2007, 10:04:22 AM »
I had the thought that a third ore might be nice to implement in the game. bithium is a form of materials that are not found on earth. Other planets other minerals..
You could call it Legendary ore, Invaluable ore or, Precious ore. It would be mined after extensive research by modified miners if implemented. This ore would be especially rare and you could find only a 1 or 2 bar mine of this. Due to the nature of this ore I have no idea of it's atomic weight. This ore would be useful because it's rarity would limit the special units you could build. Plus it would be another system to defend

 As far as I know all data on ore found in meteors that are not earth like has been posted as Top Secret, class Ultra Blue security clearence.
Fire at will!

Offline Mez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
Bithium Ore
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2007, 10:47:21 AM »
Not sure about a third ultra rare ore.

It could go the way that "reinforced vehicles" goes where once you research it you need some of the third ore to produce some of the normal vehicles.

It would be good if a third ore, allowed for building of special walls, like the blight walls, for what reason I don't know.  Perhaps some of the more advanced weapon systems, but that could bring about some kind of in-balance, if the ore is really rare, and hard to get.

I was think more along the lines of using it for reinforced buildings,

Say the ore allowed for a new stronger metal alloy, it could be used to build stronger super structures

 like a bigger agridome, CC with higher hit points, GP with more hit points, MHD like power facility

The GP could even possibly have a more powerful weapon on top, if its structure were stronger.

I would however add something like:  "The ore is too rare to be wasted in vehicles, or that it is too heavy for use in vehicles.  In its description"

Offline Betaray

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2902
Bithium Ore
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 12:41:12 PM »
Ok for one, what is Top Secret, class Ultra Blue security clearance?

For two even if something has different ores, they would still be made up of the same elements, the entire universe is made of the same stuff, so no ore would have any of the special ability's (inter-dimensional and the like), it would just be different concentrations of elements we already know about, iron, cobalt, silicon, and so on.

The composition of meteors is well known and is public knowledge, it has high quantities of rare elements such as platinum as well as fairly high concentrations of Iridium, which is rare on Earth, but still nothing to the extent that you are talking about.
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 12:57:16 PM »
meteors are mostly iron like earth.  

Offline BlackBox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3101
Bithium Ore
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 02:13:02 PM »
The game is complex enough as-is. Adding another ore would just frustrate the user and there is really no realistic purpose for another ore.

Besides, OP2 is based on hard SF and as such, you couldn't 'magically' mine ore that comes from meteors... you would need some way to retrieve the ore from meteors in space.

Unfortunately I am reminded of "titanum comes from a melted UFO" for a minute here.

Offline TRIX Rabbit

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • http://androidar.deviantart.com/
Bithium Ore
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 07:35:01 PM »
I think a better way of getting "Bithium" ore (what a lame name, should be Dense Ore)
is as a by product of the GORF. After alot of research, they find that the GORF is able to create enormous pressure and force and create "Bithium" ore, which at first only needs storage tanks. Then thru even more research, the source of the materials for the ore are in what is mined out of the common ore mines. The "Bithium/Dense" ore smelter is created to reduce the load on the GORF. The metal is created from common ore,  and the process creates slightly less ore than rare ore, but also creates some common ore (which is not stored in the Bithium ore smelter).

Alternative to this is that a conversion plant converts Common + Rare ore into Bithium.

There are three theoretical elements that lie in the center of the "Island of Stability", Elements 122, 124, and 126 i thinks... Bithium should be one of these.

Bithium should only be for buildings... It would be useless in vechs unless harnessed as a power source (tho unlikely)
I'm more commonly known as AndroidAR now:
My deviantArt

Offline Arklon

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1224
Bithium Ore
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 07:56:23 PM »
Quote
From the Outpost 2 Manual
... The first is simply called Common Ore, and it is rich in lighter metals such as aluminum, titanium, magnesium, yttrium, and chromium, as well as a few common heavier metals like copper and iron.  So-called Rare Ores are rich in heavier metals including radioactives.  Metals in this group include gold, silver, lead, cobalt, nickel, palladium, osmium, platinum, cadmium, zinc, mercury, thorium, and uranium.
Do we need more metals?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 07:56:31 PM by Arklon »

Offline Combine Crusier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Bithium Ore
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 08:26:17 AM »
Ok.. I had the thought that Bithium could (if allowed) be used in the new weapons and vehicles I've proposedPlease remember I'm only suggesting, I'm not good at speeches. Though biuldings are a very good idea to I agree. You see Bithium is normally composed of stable isotopes of elements. These isotopes could be of titanium or even cobalt. So these elements are on earth but EXTREMELY rare except for certain kinds. Heck part of our bodies are made of an isotope of carbon.
I thought blight walls were obselete unless the blight is going to be in OP3 which I hope isn't, I prefer to blast things instead of run from them. Say... my organic acid weapon requires bithium because of carbon 16 I think. If added that is. As for a power source bithium could also be the small portions of anti-matter that do exist.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 08:27:21 AM by Combine Crusier »
Fire at will!

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6247
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Bithium Ore
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 09:47:58 AM »
antimatter would be impossible to mine, because the second it comes in contact with matter, it is neutralized
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Savant 231-A

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
    • https://www.outpost2.net
Bithium Ore
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 11:36:58 AM »
With a explosion. Big explosion. (does it?)
Gordon Freeman, and mr. Crowbar would own Master Chief in any part of the day.
"Come here citizen."

"From the ashes of the collapse we seek to build a better world for all."

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6247
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Bithium Ore
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 02:19:03 PM »
I don't think it explodes.  All it is is a cancelling of opposites
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 837
Bithium Ore
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 04:05:50 PM »
We already had the antimatter discussion here. As was quoted, the metals in OP are composites. "Common metals" is an all inclusive term (contains more than one common type of material). "Rare metals" is also an all inclusive term. If you want another resource type, I would shy away form giving it a specific name as I would imagine it is also another type of composite ore (containing more than one material of interest).

Titanium (itself) is not an isotope (neither is cobalt). Or are you saying that "bithium" is a composite of isotopic elements? (isotopes of titanium, cobalt, etc...)

Help us see what the gaming benefit of "bithium" is and how it would fit into the story line (in terms of in-game). i.e. If it opens up a new class of research (such as what "rare ore" does) that might fit better than simply adding it for the sake of having another resource type.

As for me, I'm not sure what gaming bonus I feel for having to set up a third type of mine.

Offline dm-horus

  • Banned
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1043
    • Division 32 Community
Bithium Ore
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 04:28:29 PM »
I suggest that people simply do not post their ideas unless theyre reasonably sure of what theyre talking about. Doing 10 minutes of googling on the ideas you want to incorporate into this "bithium" idea would have helped you make much more sense with this. It is obvious from reading that youre not entirely sure exactly what antimatter is, or even how the ore classes work in op2. As White Claw has said there are not 2 kinds of ore, there are 2 CLASSES of ore which contain perhaps dozens of specific types of ore. Since there is no reason to build a vehicle with iridium plating theres no reason to mine meteors. This bithium idea sounds like one specific element which is for some reason present but has applications much like tiberium from C&C. In that case, tiberium extracts minerals from the crust and concentrates them into tiberium crystals which can then be mined. Is bithium similar? If so then I dont think it belongs in this game for a number of reasons. If it isnt like tiberium I dont know what kind of material it could be that would be so rare yet have applications that are so necessary that it has its very own ore class.

So anyway, we will need much more clarity before any ore suggestion is seriously considered. Do a bit of research and get back to us with a clearer understanding of what it is you are proposing.
Always outnumbered. Never outgunned.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 10:26:11 PM »
Antimatter is simple and why it doesnt work as a weapon or a powersource yet.

-1 + 1 = 0  

Its very hard to contain it because of this.  Not to mention the limited amount that you would get from bithium would give insignificant amounts of power compared to the cool fusion in the vecs.  IF bithium is a Alloy made from multipul other elements  then it would not be mined it would be smelted or forged.  Adding such a thing that would automaticly be done as a resource just doesnt make sence since it will always be avalible as long as you have Common and/or Rare ores.  

Offline dm-horus

  • Banned
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1043
    • Division 32 Community
Bithium Ore
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2007, 07:26:55 AM »
Wikipedia:

"In antimatter-matter collisions resulting in photon emission, the entire rest mass of the particles is converted to kinetic energy. The energy per unit mass is about 10 orders of magnitude greater than chemical energy, and about 2 orders of magnitude greater than nuclear energy that can be liberated today using nuclear fission or fusion. The reaction of 1 kg of antimatter with 1 kg of matter would produce 1.8×1017 J (180 petajoules) of energy (by the equation E=mc²). This is about 134 times as much energy as is obtained by nuclear fusion of the same mass of hydrogen (fusion of 1H to 4He produces about 7 MeV per nucleon, or 1.3×1015 J for 2 kg of hydrogen). This amount of energy would be released by burning 5.6 billion liters (1.5 billion US gallons) of gasoline (the combustion of one liter of gasoline in oxygen produces 3.2×107 J), or by detonating 43 million tonnes of TNT (at 4.2×106 J/kg).

Not all of that energy can be utilized by any realistic technology, because as much as 50% of energy produced in reactions between nucleons and antinucleons is carried away by neutrinos, so, for all intents and purposes, it can be considered lost.[2]

The scarcity of antimatter means that it is not readily available to be used as fuel, although it could be used in antimatter catalyzed nuclear pulse propulsion. Generating a single antiproton is immensely difficult and requires particle accelerators and vast amounts of energy—millions of times more than is released after it is annihilated with ordinary matter, due to inefficiencies in the process. Known methods of producing antimatter from energy also produce an equal amount of normal matter, so the theoretical limit is that half of the input energy is converted to antimatter. Counterbalancing this, when antimatter annihilates with ordinary matter, energy equal to twice the mass of the antimatter is liberated—so energy storage in the form of antimatter could (in theory) be 100% efficient. Antimatter production is currently very limited, but has been growing at a nearly geometric rate since the discovery of the first antiproton in 1955.[3] The current antimatter production rate is between 1 and 10 nanograms per year, and this is expected to increase to between 3 and 30 nanograms per year by 2015 or 2020 with new superconducting linear accelerator facilities at CERN and Fermilab. Some researchers claim that with current technology, it is possible to obtain antimatter for US$25 million per gram by optimizing the collision and collection parameters (given current electricity generation costs). Antimatter production costs, in mass production, are almost linearly tied in with electricity costs, so economical pure-antimatter thrust applications are unlikely to come online without the advent of such technologies as deuterium-tritium fusion power (assuming that such a power source actually would prove to be cheap). Many experts, however, dispute these claims as being far too optimistic by many orders of magnitude. They point out that in 2004; the annual production of antiprotons at CERN was several picograms at a cost of $20 million. This means to produce 1 gram of antimatter, CERN would need to spend 100 quadrillion dollars and run the antimatter factory for 100 billion years. Storage is another problem, as antiprotons are negatively charged and repel against each other, so that they cannot be concentrated in a small volume. Plasma oscillations in the charged cloud of antiprotons can cause instabilities that drive antiprotons out of the storage trap. For these reasons, to date only a few million antiprotons have been stored simultaneously in a magnetic trap, which corresponds to much less than a femtogram. Antihydrogen atoms or molecules are neutral so in principle they do not suffer the plasma problems of antiprotons described above. But cold antihydrogen is far more difficult to produce than antiprotons, and so far not a single antihydrogen atom has been trapped in a magnetic field.

Several NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts-funded studies are exploring whether the antimatter that occurs naturally in the Van Allen belts of Earth, and ultimately, the belts of gas giants like Jupiter, might be able to be collected with magnetic scoops, at hopefully a lower cost per gram.[4]

Since the energy density is vastly higher than these other forms, the thrust to weight equation used in antimatter rocketry and spacecraft would be very different. In fact, the energy in a few grams of antimatter is enough to transport an unmanned spacecraft to Mars in about a month—the Mars Global Surveyor took eleven months to reach Mars. It is hoped that antimatter could be used as fuel for interplanetary travel or possibly interstellar travel, but it is also feared that if humanity ever gets the capabilities to do so, there could be the construction of antimatter weapons."
Always outnumbered. Never outgunned.

Offline Brazilian Fan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
Bithium Ore
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2007, 07:37:12 PM »
Resume pliz.

To long for me to read it  :rolleyes:  

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2007, 09:11:39 PM »
youll just have to read it.

Offline dm-horus

  • Banned
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1043
    • Division 32 Community
Bithium Ore
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2007, 04:20:27 PM »
It answers almost all the outstanding questions or problems raised in this discussion. youll just have to read it to understand. i took that from the wikipedia article on anti-matter, i think everyone in this discussion should read that. again ill say that people should seriously do at least 10 minutes of research before they start a science discussion or debate.
Always outnumbered. Never outgunned.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2007, 04:38:39 PM »
Posting the link would have been a lot simpler and the fact is we have already read this in a previous thread.

Offline Brazilian Fan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
Bithium Ore
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2007, 05:05:07 PM »
Quote
It answers almost all the outstanding questions or problems raised in this discussion. youll just have to read it to understand. i took that from the wikipedia article on anti-matter, i think everyone in this discussion should read that. again ill say that people should seriously do at least 10 minutes of research before they start a science discussion or debate.
I totally agree.

When some idea 'pops' on your head, try to not post here without any useful information. 10 minutes of goggling (and a read on Outpost/Outpost 2 novella/help etc.) would avoid lot's of trouble and nonsense later.

NOTE: Outpost series are Hard-Fiction games, it's a POSSIBLE nears-future image.

 :op2:  4 ever

Offline Combine Crusier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Bithium Ore
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2007, 08:02:01 PM »
Quote
If you want another resource type, I would shy away form giving it a specific name as I would imagine it is also another type of composite ore (containing more than one material of interest).

Titanium (itself) is not an isotope (neither is cobalt). Or are you saying that "bithium" is a composite of isotopic elements? (isotopes of titanium, cobalt, etc...)

Help us see what the gaming benefit of "bithium" is and how it would fit into the story line (in terms of in-game). i.e. If it opens up a new class of research (such as what "rare ore" does) that might fit better than simply adding it for the sake of having another resource type.

As for me, I'm not sure what gaming bonus I feel for having to set up a third type of mine.
Yes I am saying that. I f we add this third ore it could be used in my other suggestions. Such as weapons and vehicles.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 07:47:10 AM by Combine Crusier »
Fire at will!

Offline Combine Crusier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Bithium Ore
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2007, 07:59:10 AM »
My suggestion (at least most of them) do require small amounts of this material the reason the amount is so small is because you would probably get only 50 units of ore per cargo truck meaning this is ULTRA RARE.

Also it could open up major research discoveries like (anti matter pulse drive for the star ship because I have been racked about the fact that there is only a neglible amount natuaraly but if you think this is a problem flat out say it don't hide behind a 10K word page) also it could bring about a new explosive device or possibly even a new group of structures like a quake resistant power plant to name one.

Another use for this ore could be to create super composites of rare and bithium which would technically be bithium metals due to the rarity of the ore, but this could be able to create armor upgrades and new levels armor (as seen in my vehicle suggestment) You could give a standard lynx Renforced Medium armor for instance. WOW!

These are possibilities, you have a point there it could open up a HUGE number of side technologies!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 08:05:00 AM by Combine Crusier »
Fire at will!

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2320
Bithium Ore
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2007, 01:03:27 PM »
NO NO NO this is getting stupid.  If you didnt read no one really want bithium ore for any reasons such as antimater.   Also having are ore that is so rare basicly makes it useless as you can produce alot of units with the common and rare ores.  I certainly would be mass producing on the "lower" ores.

Offline Combine Crusier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
Bithium Ore
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2007, 09:00:00 AM »
Ok forget the anti-matter. And this isn't like 5 ore per truck I would imagine 100 like the original magma wells would be good. I just couldn't use regular rare as it is already in use. This is just advised to be a somewhat rarer substance the regular rare ore. And what is the use of lesser units if the new weapons make them obselete.
Fire at will!