Outpost2's final destiny, if you had to guess where did it end up?

[dave_erald]

So where does everyone think this game would have gone had Sierra had its act together and continued on with the series?

I always kinda guessed that we would have followed this new Starship to a new planet or system of planets and found that the Eden and Plymouth colonies were reborn from the continued disagreements carried over from New Terra. With the extra planets and moons they could really stretch out and grow but sort of follow theme that we all generally liked from Outpost2.

That's my two cents.

Anyone else?


P.S. I've also toyed with the thought of them doing an FPS on New Terra similar to the Command and Conquer game.

[leeor_net]

In terms of the FPS, just a few thoughts:

It;s still on New Terra with whatever remaining colonists there are.

The remaining colonists have fractured into three factions -- those trying to find a way to live with the blight, those trying to eliminate the blight and those trying to bend the blight to their will. Or something like that.

Would make for a defense/offense kind of game.

[dave_erald]

I like the idea of the Blight thing as didn't the official novella have some the Savants get taken over by the Blight and melded into one?

Now that I get thinking that right there makes for some interesting story telling...

[leeor_net]

Yeah, they mentioned that but I think it's a silly idea. I was going to go for something like that with Outpost 3: Genesis but the reality is, based on the technology they described if anything at all the boptronic circuits would simply degrade and break. The Savant's are just computer AI's running on boptronic circuitry so the reality is that it should simply fail, not become a sentient entity.

[dave_erald]

I would have fallen for that theory had they left it as just messing up vehicles or building controls, not creating an entirely new Sentient being.

However, there must be a way to create life in this manner. Any advanced biochemists in the house?

[Sirbomber]

 

[dave_erald]

Goddamn. Wraps everything up right there.

No argument.

[Arklon]

Yeah, they mentioned that but I think it's a silly idea. I was going to go for something like that with Outpost 3: Genesis but the reality is, based on the technology they described if anything at all the boptronic circuits would simply degrade and break. The Savant's are just computer AI's running on boptronic circuitry so the reality is that it should simply fail, not become a sentient entity.

The Savants created the Blight to make a perfect world for Savants, as was revealed at some point in the novella (apparently Nguyen didn't word his request very well and Savants are like trolling genies). It was designed from the start for their own biological components to be able to integrate with it. I also remember emailing Steven York and he confirmed that's what happened in the end of the Plymouth novella, and from there it would be able to intelligently modify its genome to implement more sophisticated and less destructive metabolic strategies so it doesn't starve itself out (like the Blight would have eventually if left as is), then continue self-directed evolution.

I made a thread a long time ago detailing any tech-related stuff (including Savants and the Blight) I could find in the novella and other written materials, you can check it out if you want. http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php/topic,3696.0.html

[dave_erald]

Oh Arklon, if only you put half the effort into your answer that Sirbomber did...

[dave_erald]

... on a side note I need to brush up on my Outpost2 canon, I don't remember the second ship or the plot hole in that diagram, was that another planet?


         ...must have been, there's no other explanation.

[Arklon]

... on a side note I need to brush up on my Outpost2 canon, I don't remember the second ship or the plot hole in that diagram, was that another planet?


         ...must have been, there's no other explanation.

That image was Fenrisul's thoughts on the preliminary story for OP3 Genesis way back when it was being developed. You should have seen the story Betaray came up with for another OP3 years ago, it involved every huge disaster imaginable happening in rapid succession.

[dave_erald]

I could only imagine the wild theories. I look back at some of what went on back in the day and its upsetting that with this many people more couldn't be accomplished towards a successor to Outpost2.
Leeor looks to be making good headway on his project and he's only one programmer.

Just need a good story and game design that doesn't infringe on I.P.

Also, every major disaster? I don't get to watch football on Sunday and I consider that a major disaster, not sure that would doom a species though...

[leeor_net]

SirBomber... I don't think I could have illustrated it better myself. Genesis introduced a giant plothole though at least when I was still involved in the project there either wasn't a second ship from Earth or if there was they never ended up on the same planet as the Conestoga 2. But... that was a whatever.

No, we were talking about this a bit in IRC and as I explained at least for me it was purely speculation and a thought experiment. If the story were to be continued, how would it be done? Would we follow Conestoga 2 (is that what they even called it?)? Would it be a second colony ship from Earth? Would it take place on what's left of New Terra? Would it be another TBS? RTS? Maybe an RTS but with all the focus on rebuilding mankind on a new planet? Go the route of an entirely different genre just for shits and giggles to see what happens?

It's just a curiosity because I'm a terrible writer. I don't really have a good way to properly write a story. I'm a much better engineer.

Please don't flay me, I don't intend to start a new Outpost 3, I was just thinking if ever the series was to be continued what would be a good way to do it?

[dave_erald]

It's just a curiosity because I'm a terrible writer. I don't really have a good way to properly write a story. I'm a much better engineer.

Please don't flay me, I don't intend to start a new Outpost 3, I was just thinking if ever the series was to be continued what would be a good way to do it?

Throw him on the spit, he be startin shit!

Actually I didn't mean for that to rhyme, or for it to sound as white as it does. I digress...

What I hoped to come out of this topic is more directions and arguments, I have an idea of where what I'm writing is going but having more to look at and think about is fantastic.

... okay maybe I'mm the one starting shit, so roast me than that's fine.

I sort of have something in the back of my head if ever there were a chance to get a group of people involved and create a new game devoid of the word Outpost and any IP infringement, but with a lot of what keeps everyone attached to Outpost 1 and 2.
( And if attached is too strong of a word, then it's just that we all have a spot for this game in our lives that may never leave I think. )

But back to what Leeor had started on IRC, how many other different stories could have come from the end of Outpost 2? There still must be people frequenting these boards that want to try there hand at some wild speculation with a side of debate?

[Sirbomber]

Leeor/dave_erald: why would we flame you for talking theory about a game we're all here to talk about?  Go ahead and make another OP3; I won't stop you.  I will be jaded and cynical about it, however. 

I imagine OP3 would be like OP2 was to OP1: a reboot/reimagining.  Look at the end of OP2: the colonists are united with their main source of conflict gone and with a magic computer that almost thinks of humanity as gods promising to send them all sorts of cool tech when they wake up from cold sleep.  Wherever they ended up, they promptly turned it into a utopia.  It's a great ending but a really lousy and boring game/story with no drama or conflict.  Really the only logical place for an OP3 to start would be to start over in an alternate continuity, or following another group of survivors (could be another ship, Earth-based survivors who waited it out in stasis deep underground or in orbit, or colonists on Mars/the moon/Titan/some other place in the solar system).

[Hooman]

I will be jaded and cynical about it, however. 

That's about what I would expect from you.

Really the only logical place for an OP3 to start would be to start over in an alternate continuity, or following another group of survivors (could be another ship, Earth-based survivors who waited it out in stasis deep underground or in orbit, or colonists on Mars/the moon/Titan/some other place in the solar system).

I had often thought about the waiting it out in orbit idea. Even for New Terra that could work. With the blight's rate of expansion, you'd think it'd eventually starve itself out. With only a partially complete spaceship in orbit, you could potentially evacuate enough people there, put them in stasis, forget about building an engine, and just wait. If you want to add some darkness to the story, maybe the hastily built spaceship of the winning colony explodes upon launch, taking the best and brightest of humanity with them. The cruft left behind who didn't earn a seat on the completed spaceship are then left to try to survive on the partially built spaceship of the losing colony.

But yeah, just a reboot with an alternative story, and an updated game engine sounds like the most likely way to continue.


As for the FPS idea brought up, that has potentially for quite a lot of darkness. Exterminate the last vestiges of humanity! Collect 200 "points" to win!

Or you could have the savants go the route of HAL or GLaDOS. Lots of possibility for dark humor there. And science!
**: Colonist assigned to air-lock maintenance. Opening air-lock. "Wait! No! Arrrrgh! Gasp! *choke*". -- Sudden decompression sucks. 
Science: Did you know that colonists kept in an oxygenated environment are far more likely to die of cancer than those kept in an oxygen free environment?

[Highlander]

I always liked the storyline that KevinAR18 had set on his old website:

- Plymouth escapes/wins
- Eden manages somehow to get another spaceship going and follows Plymouth.
- Blight chases them both
- All 3 end up on planet X, where another colony vessel from earth has already landed and established the New Haven colony.

4 possible factions. Though the story line suffers some plot holes I guess

[Hooman]

Lol. Yeah, the plot seems a bit hard to explain. How exactly would the blight chase them? Not that I would object to having 4 factions to choose from. What exactly would the blight be as a faction though? I'm kind of thinking Zerg creep, but what else?

[Arklon]

I imagine OP3 would be like OP2 was to OP1: a reboot/reimagining.  Look at the end of OP2: the colonists are united with their main source of conflict gone and with a magic computer that almost thinks of humanity as gods promising to send them all sorts of cool tech when they wake up from cold sleep.  Wherever they ended up, they promptly turned it into a utopia.  It's a great ending but a really lousy and boring game/story with no drama or conflict.  Really the only logical place for an OP3 to start would be to start over in an alternate continuity, or following another group of survivors (could be another ship, Earth-based survivors who waited it out in stasis deep underground or in orbit, or colonists on Mars/the moon/Titan/some other place in the solar system).

Or set it in the far future from when OP2 ended. Though yeah, it never made sense to me that, since they already have stasis technology as well as the means to survive on another planet, why couldn't they just set up bunkers with stasis chambers and wait it out? Of course, bear in mind that Vulcan's Hammer was irradiated by the attempt to deflect it, which would then spread fallout throughout the atmosphere. That double whammy would surely cause an extinction event bigger than the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs.

I always liked the storyline that KevinAR18 had set on his old website:

- Plymouth escapes/wins
- Eden manages somehow to get another spaceship going and follows Plymouth.
- Blight chases them both
- All 3 end up on planet X, where another colony vessel from earth has already landed and established the New Haven colony.

4 possible factions. Though the story line suffers some plot holes I guess

Frankly it'd make more sense to not have all the factions somehow end up all colonizing the exact same planet (especially with the galaxy being as huge as it is). Alcubierre warp drive is (slightly) closer to a reality than half the things in OP2, you could have the game set across multiple planets and I'd say it'd still be hard sci-fi.

Lol. Yeah, the plot seems a bit hard to explain. How exactly would the blight chase them? Not that I would object to having 4 factions to choose from. What exactly would the blight be as a faction though? I'm kind of thinking Zerg creep, but what else?

I'd make it an enemy on the scale of the AI in AI War, except not controlling everything from the start (but it would quickly grow to become that way). Not sure on all the details though.

[dave_erald]

Science: Did you know that colonists kept in an oxygenated environment are far more likely to die of cancer than those kept in an oxygen free environment?

Uhh, science has no place here sir.

4 possible factions. Though the story line suffers some plot holes I guess

Plot holes though... those are okay.


What if they got scared of ever landing planet side again? Not having any faith with planets they just stay in space? Maybe become one large fleet that just mine the next planets surface they come across as finding another earth like planet is not impossible just difficult to come across. Hmmm, not hating that line of thought either...

Really the only logical place for an OP3 to start would be to start over in an alternate continuity, or following another group of survivors (could be another ship, Earth-based survivors who waited it out in stasis deep underground or in orbit, or colonists on Mars/the moon/Titan/some other place in the solar system).

This right here, if ever there was going to be a OP3 makes the most sense to me. Leave the story of OP2 as them leaving and gone to find another planet, and this game picking up on the second ship or Mars colony. Which begs the question, why wouldn't you just pack shit up and go to Mars? An extinction level event such as a large asteroid would bitch up the surface of only half the planet. The shit storm of impact would blanket the atmosphere in a thick layer of dirt that would eventually settle out after having froze more than 50% of the planet. Wait fifty or so years and then fly back to earth and cleanup the mess.

There, boom. Solved. *drops mic, walks off OPU site*

[Sirbomber]

There's a problem with the idea of the "losing" colony "waits it out in orbit" or "somehow finishes the second ship and follow".  Despite both campaigns having you build and launch the starship components, the novella makes it pretty clear that Plymouth never even started work on their own starship because they planned on stealing Eden's from the very beginning.  There is no half-finished starship conveniently waiting in orbit for someone to use as they see fit.

As for "why not go to Mars" there was talk in Outpost 1 about "other planetary impacts" so maybe Mars was going to get hit too.  Of course whether anything from OP1 applies to OP2 is really a matter of personal preference.  It's also worth remembering that the original survivors from Earth didn't intentionally head towards New Terra from the get-go; they were drifting from star to star for (at least) 100 years looking for another Earth.  They chose New Terra not because it was what they wanted but because they were running out of fuel and getting desperate.

And in response to "OP3 takes place in the same continuity as OP2 but hundreds/thousands of years in the future" why bother?  OP2 is a hard sci-fi game about a desperate struggle to survive.  Putting the story forward 1,000 years also pushes the tech level into magical super-science territory and the size of the population.  It wouldn't be "Outposty" anymore, for lack of a better word.  Unless you're suggesting that even after 1,000 years technology hasn't advanced at all and there are still only 200 people left alive?

And while I'm at it, since dave_erald mentioned "just stay in space and strip mine planets for resources as needed"...

[dave_erald]

All my good ideas taken...

[Sirbomber]

Time for some bad ideas, then. 

I was talking to Betaray about a "joke" game that would follow science team that got "left behind" on Jupiter's moon, Europa.  It would take place in the subsurface ocean and everything was going to be a submarine.  I was going to call it "Outpost Underwater".

[Arklon]

And in response to "OP3 takes place in the same continuity as OP2 but hundreds/thousands of years in the future" why bother?  OP2 is a hard sci-fi game about a desperate struggle to survive.  Putting the story forward 1,000 years also pushes the tech level into magical super-science territory and the size of the population.  It wouldn't be "Outposty" anymore, for lack of a better word.  Unless you're suggesting that even after 1,000 years technology hasn't advanced at all and there are still only 200 people left alive?

And while I'm at it, since dave_erald mentioned "just stay in space and strip mine planets for resources as needed"...

Only if you hack too much time. It can't be too far in the future, since all the technology still has to be believable, but there's lots of material to draw from cutting-edge science from the past 20 years since OP1/OP2.
The only thing that'd enforce survival mode/conflict at that point would be a large-scale threat, though.

[dave_erald]

So once your a thousand years into the future and super "sciencey" than regular survival should be something technologically surpassed. The only large scale threat would be an Alien presence ala Mass Effect. Correct?