Some Ideas

[Nynx]

Heres some ideas for OP3

1)AUTOMATIC GORF:: IF a building is destroyed, and you send a cargo truck to pick up the pieces, the truck should pick up the pieces and AUTOMATICALLY go to the nearest friendly GORF facility

instead of the player having to do it manually, also, when a GORF is built; it should spawn its own cargo truck

ADVANTAGES
----------------
-Less attention spent on a minor thing
-You could harvest a destroyed enemy base

DISADVANTAGES
--------------------
-none that i can think of, but please feel free to find one



2)Dynamic Research System:: this is to represent ingenuity of the player's scientists.
Example: take a vehicle factory; lets say you build X amount of lynx chassis, after that amount; an upgrade is unlocked to allow lynxs to be built faster
or better armor
or cheaper production
because the scientists have analyzed the methods and come up with better ways to do things (much akin to the descriptions of some of the op2 upgrades)

and think of this beyond militaristic terms, like buildings and Structure Factories and more!

ADVANTAGES
----------------
-Diverse gameplay
-no two opponents will be same when fighting each other  (on average)
-specialization of tactics

DISADVANTAGES
---------------------
-players would learn certain combos (unless the conditions were made at random)
-feel free to come up with more


3)Unit queuing:: we all want to be able to build more than one vehicle at a time, but heres a thought. Suppose we can build up to 6 units per vehicle factory, and a player build 2 panthers and 3 tigers. That first tiger to be built should cost a little more and take a little more time due to the fact that the production line has to switch from making panthers to tigers.

Basically it will cost more and longer if a player switched vehicles mid-queue

ADVANTAGES
----------------
-realism

DISADVANTAGES
--------------------
-dunno

as you can see, I am not the greatest at thinking of disadvantages for these ideas, but look at it this way; I don't believe they have a lot disadvantages. These are just a few of my ideas, take them or leave them; I don't care.

 

[Arklon]

There's already a "salvage" command for cargo trucks when there's an active GORF.
Dynamic research would just worsen the problem of a lot of OP2 games being big memorized clickfests, and randomizing them would make it a game of luck.
Unit queues could be nice, but a lot of people see micromanagement as a trademark of the OP series.

[Nynx]

1)yeah but with the GORF salvage, you have to operate everything yourself,

click on truck
click on salvage icon
click on rubble
click on gorf

i think the last step can be eliminated by having the truck go by itself to the nearest working GORF


2)what RTS isnt a memorized click-fest? even starcraft, you have to know how to set up an effeceint system, which research takes priority and which tech can wait

most top players know the order in which they build to maximize the speed of building up their base.

3)if there are limited numbers of people in a colony, automation of processes would increase its survival, so wouldnt creating an assembly line be in agreement with that ideology?

[Arklon]

So you're saying there's nothing wrong with making the game highly set-it-and-forget-it, and there's nothing wrong with memorized clickfests?

[Nynx]

The OP2 system already a 'set-it-and-forget-it' system, and that's the mining system, adding ONE more of those would not make it 'highly[/i]' 'set-it-and-forget-it.'

Name one other thing in OP2 that is 'set-it-and-forget-it' that DOES NOT fit in with the whole 'majority of the colony is run by machines to allow the last survivors to live.'
And it's not like I am saying: 'oh let us make everything STARCRAFT! yeah! everything! no more gratuitous clicking!'
NO I am picking out one aspect of the game that could use a lot less management simply because unless you base your ENTIRE strategy on salvage, this isn't going to ruin the game.

Having a tech tree in an RTS means 'click-fest' whether you want it or not. A tech tree means you research techA to unlock techB, hmmmm this seems to follow a sequential order...well maybe if I become good at knowing what to research and what not to, as well as become fast at it; maybe I'll win!

If anything, because of OP2's micromanaging, it is even more clicking than Command and Conquer, Starcraft, and Warcraft!

even after this response, I doubt you'll become convince, and because this isn't a 'denounce every other game that is not OP2' thread, this is my last response on the subject

[Arklon]

The OP2 system already a 'set-it-and-forget-it' system, and that's the mining system, adding ONE more of those would not make it 'highly[/i]' 'set-it-and-forget-it.'

If there was no ore hauling route feature, mining would be excessively tedious. And the Earthworker being able to make lines of walls and tubes is another thing. In the prerelease demos, the Earthworker could only build one tube or wall at a time. Even though it built incredibly fast in the predemo, it was a huge pain.

[Sirbomber]

Uhh... You all do realize that if you decon a building and have an active GORF, you automatically get the metals back?

[Hidiot]

He wants automated rubble gathering.

truth is that long-distance salvaging is rather hard, as the Cargo Truck usually refuses to go anywhere O_o Same thing happens when I try to order an Earthworker to build a wall on the other side of the map.

[Arklon]

truth is that long-distance salvaging is rather hard, as the Cargo Truck usually refuses to go anywhere O_o Same thing happens when I try to order an Earthworker to build a wall on the other side of the map.

That's a different issue (Dan Duncalf sucking at coding).

[Sirbomber]

He wants automated rubble gathering.

That already exists.

Sounds like he wants to turn the GORF into a Command and Conquer Ore Refinery, and Cargo Trucks into Harvesters. Five reasons why this idea is bad:

1) You can already automatically collect rubble. Either use the hotkey or just park the Cargo Truck on the rubble you want to pick up.

2) Vehicles do not just magically "spawn" in Outpost. This game is based on hard science, not horrifyingly over-used "cool" ideas.  How would the ConVec build a GORF and a Cargo Truck?  Vehicles are built at Vehicle Factories. They don't just magically appear because you're too lazy to build a new Cargo Truck.

3) Outpost 2 is not C&C.

4) Outpost 2 is not C&C.

5) Outpost 2 is not C&C!!![/size]

[Arklon]

QUOTE (Hidiot @ Nov 3 2007, 01:32 PM)

truth is that long-distance salvaging is rather hard, as the Cargo Truck usually refuses to go anywhere O_o Same thing happens when I try to order an Earthworker to build a wall on the other side of the map.

That's a different issue (Dan Duncalf sucking at coding).

Agreed.

1) You can already automatically collect rubble. Either use the hotkey or just park the Cargo Truck on the rubble you want to pick up.

Yeah I think that the idea is definitely not going to work.

This post adds pretty much nothing to the topic, you know.

[Sirbomber]

This post adds pretty much nothing to the topic, you know.

But this topic had no substance to begin with, so no harm done really...

[Marukasu]

2)Dynamic Research System:: this is to represent ingenuity of the player's scientists.
Example: take a vehicle factory; lets say you build X amount of lynx chassis, after that amount; an upgrade is unlocked to allow lynxs to be built faster
or better armor
or cheaper production
because the scientists have analyzed the methods and come up with better ways to do things (much akin to the descriptions of some of the op2 upgrades)

and think of this beyond militaristic terms, like buildings and Structure Factories and more!

ADVANTAGES
----------------
-Diverse gameplay
-no two opponents will be same when fighting each other (on average)
-specialization of tactics

DISADVANTAGES
---------------------
-players would learn certain combos (unless the conditions were made at random)
-feel free to come up with more

It makes sense...
and well as long as the variance is reasonably low then i don't see why not.
However to further prevent the "Luck=win" scenario i think there should be a sort of timer to stop those events from happening to often.

So what I'm basically saying is that there should be some sort of a delay between those kinds of discovery's. Moreover have these "discovery's" should be rather minor(being a small tweak in design). Even in real life when something is designed  usually there are post production tweaks that improve any part of the products function(Or even the production of the product).

[Nynx]

"But this topic had no substance to begin with, so no harm done really..."


well gee, ya want to shoot down ideas, be my guest, but usually a sequel to a game involves something new or inventive

you want an op2 thats 3d? then call it op2 3d or something, not op3 because the name op3 gives the impression that there is something new about gameplay under the hood.

im not saying my ideas are the best, but going off the almost 100% hostile reaction to these ideas especially when i was kind enough to follow the rules and present them in an intelligent format, as well as these ideas are based off my observations of gameplay and what can be done differently i guess this crowd doesnt want op3 they want op2 with better graphics.

no duh op2 isnt C&C, but must we have a game that plays more like a flight sim (those massive amount of hotkeys) than an RTS? because thats what this is folks, an RTS with sim elements.

if it had 0 combat content and a 100% complete system for economics and trade; then yeah it would be a sim.

so knock my ideas all you want, as i said originally but its kind of dissapointing to see every idea torn apart when you have a thread dedicated to these ideas.

im glad to see someone like Marukasu actual sat down, read my idea and thought it out instead of instantly bashing it, thank you.

[Freeza-CII]

Here is how it is.  We want op3 to be 3d we want it to have a interesting but believable and have a scientific standing.  We dont want it to mimic other games or just to have some thing because it is HIP OR NEW.  No one here is trying to shift the dynamics of gaming.  Keeping the great aspects of OP2 and adding on to them in OP3 with out copy cat effect from other games.  As for the hot keys those have been around for a long while.  Hot keys are there so you don't have to rely totally on the mouse to do any thing given that some people play on some big resolutions  it can be a b**** to get the mouse over there that fast thus the hot keys save time.  It in no way makes a RTS a flight sim.  Flight sims use so many keys like that because they are based on total realism of the cockpit.

Now my take on your unlocking the faster build time armor ect.

All of these would be done by the research.  Having the factories wouldn't really make a difference since they are programmed to build things.  Just because two factories are next to each other doesn't mean they will be able to build twice as fast each.

Having things balanced It is in op2.  Means you have to keep on production and management at the same time with out being over run or killed out right.
 

[Marukasu]

But this topic had no substance to begin with, so no harm done really...

:find:
DO YOU WANT TO PUSH AWAY OP PLAYERS!
Criticizing ideas is one thing, but you could try to be a little more constructive.
Instead of just saying "this idea sucks" you could say "This idea has alot of problems and heres what you might want to change."
I agree that the Gorf atomizing has a few problems(Mainly because it goes against op2's theme of clicking both of the routes end points). But an improved code that wouldn't have so many problems with actually finishing the job would be preferred.


READ THE RULES!

# We like ideas which

    * make op3 different from other games(I would assume this includes the previous op games)
    * ...
    * make controlling the game easier(Well i definitely think that he meet that requirement)

Hmm really... doesn't really look like it.

[Nynx]

" have a scientific standing"...op2 doesnt have a scientific standing

"We dont want it to mimic other games or just to have some thing because it is HIP OR NEW."

so what? you're going to use outdated gameplay? new games are just that new
op3 wouldnt be a new game unless it had something new in it.

"No one here is trying to shift the dynamics of gaming."
same here, with exception to the GORf im trying to enhance it but that word seems a bit foreign in these parts.

"ll of these would be done by the research. Having the factories wouldn't really make a difference since they are programmed to build things. Just because two factories are next to each other doesn't mean they will be able to build twice as fast each."

either i explained the idea completely backwards or no one is making the connection.

have you ever read the little canon blurb below a research item?
the gist of it ususally is: "our scientists have studied x and found a better way to make x using y method" or some derivative

i am adding an idea where that is applied real-time and not a fixed tech tree thats found in so many RTS's, it would make the tech tree more fluid, AKA MORE REAL!

but i see that fresh ideas are wasted on places like this

[Marukasu]

Nynx!!!
Calm down!
I appreciate all idea's.
Some modifications and that tech idea has some real potential however the gorf one i would recomend dropping merely because it has a few to many problems. I do agree that op2's gorf sucked and i realy hope that it will work appropriately in op3.

Maybee make it so the topic is unlocked in the way i previously described.

[Hidiot]

If you looked around harder, you would have noticed that Sirbomber and Freeza may be harder to reckon with... But they're not impossible

Apart from new ideas, OP3 needs balance. adding the dynamic researching thingy you talked about can cause advantages or disadvantages to form in certain situations, if left random, or would need quite some balancing work to make things balance out. I can't say that if someone gets weapons that fire further, while his opponent gets faster units with added damage, things won't balance out somehow.

OP2 is pretty realistic. There may be some things, but I'm not really sure.

For example: Meteor Defenses... they seem very unrealistic... but they're possible in a thin atmosphere planet. A thin atmosphere makes laser and plasma beams to stay focused well enough over a longer distance.

Weapons:
Lasers-plausible, for above reason.
Microwaves: not sure
Rail Gun - plausible (particle acceleration is not something unheard of)
RPG - more than plausible
Stickyfoam - plausible
EMP - very plausible
ESG - plausible
Acid Cloud - plausible... although it is an interesting and peculiar weapon, clouds of acid like that can be made.
Starflare and Supernova - highly plausible
Thor's Hammer - possible. The way they describe it makes it plausible, but there still are some things that can make things hard for this weapon.

So overall... even the weapons have some scientific basis behind them. Except Microwaves... I failed to see how they work... yet


Buildings spawning units: bad idea. Some of the same reasons as Sibomber said. Building are buildings, units are units. Buildings are built via a construction kit, and that kit can't be used to build a working unit all that easily.

I forgot what else there was to comment.

[Combine Crusier]

Ahoy there!

I am not sure if this is what he means...
If player A has X amount of lynxs then random technology Y is unlocked for player A... When player A is able to dicover random technology Y and player B has an equal number of technologies player B can research technology Z which blances out with technology Y?

Tesla made a device that created artificial lightning though it wasn't controlled also in WWII the Japanese were planning to construct giant microwave weapons and they did infact have short range prototypes.

And with factories I believe he is talking about a modifiable assembly line which is where you biuld a group of four lynx and three panthers where the first lynx is more expensive and takes longer to construct because of the time it takes to assamble the correct machinery to construct the lynx... After the lynx are completed the first panther is more expensive and takes longer to construct because the machinery inside has to be modified and moved around in the correct order so that the panther can be assembled quickly.

No wonder why they have to put warnings on blenders that say
(WARNING: Do not strick hand inside blender while turned on!)
Still think two factories are involved then you're illiterate and need to go back to school. ((Quoting someone: Older people fear change.) No wonder why we can't rely on older people to make changes to old things! EX: Some people have car insurance from the 1970's and their car's are just as old!)

[Freeza-CII]

Lasers and Masers exist to day There are even Xaser.
Rail Gun are real they have not be perfected
Sticky Foam is real its for riot control not used because its messy
EMP is being worked on today and there are basicly coil gun that people use to fry electronics
Acid Cloud basicly a tear gas grenade
Thors hammer There are crude forms of this alot of volts and amps pumped through a thin wire will make lightning.  Super Uber Tazer.
ESG a mine layer not hard to see that
RPGs have been around for decades
Nova/Flare = Truck bomb

There was a research thread like the one yall talking about try to find it it may help.

[Marukasu]

Acid Cloud basicly a tear gas grenade

Oh really?



Tear gas. Would you like to withdraw that?

Assuming that you don't. Tear gas isn't something that would have an effect on a machine.  

[Freeza-CII]

You know how a tear gas grenade works?

Thats how a Acid cloud would work only a rapid air burst.

So no i wont withdraw that.

[Nynx]

a tear gas grenade deploys a gaseous irritant the affects the lungs, nose, and eyes of a human being. I stand by marukasu in saying that a tear gas grenade wont have any real effect on an armored fighting robot.

a better explanation is that the acid in the shell is vaporised on contact, thus expanding and burning layers of armor off.  

[Freeza-CII]

omg you people.  Look at how the grenade works mechanically.