Author Topic: What about air units?  (Read 19996 times)

Offline Skydock Command

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What about air units?
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2006, 03:53:09 PM »
Im sad now.....  :(  
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Offline Betaray

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What about air units?
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2006, 04:12:11 PM »
perhaps if there is fow early in the game you can release balloons that will drift with the wind, showing parts of the map, these would become obsolete of course once satellites are launched, but early on it might be usefull
 
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

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What about air units?
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2006, 05:10:47 PM »
A ballon would get eaten up by the acid.  And these winds are going to be very unpredictable.  Having instrument readings of some thing so chaotic would be very pointless.

Offline Betaray

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What about air units?
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2006, 06:01:18 PM »
who decided it would be so acidic it would eat everything? why would they land on such a planet in the first place?
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

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What about air units?
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2006, 06:20:06 PM »
That seems to be the planet genesis is on.  Take it up with the team.

Offline Exile

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What about air units?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2007, 05:52:27 PM »
Okay everybody knows how lethal thors hammer is now try sticking it on a aircraft or for that matter Acid cloud hawk faster then tiger and is in the air. Yes while air units are awesome it would ruin OP3 to have them in there however transport flyers might be okay but no attacking aircraft or you just ruin it
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Offline Arklon

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What about air units?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2007, 06:10:38 PM »
Actually, aircraft have two big disadvantages that would balance them out:
1) Being aerial, they can be a lot easier to destroy, thanks to a nifty force called "gravity".
2) Hitting a target is a lot more complicated with aircraft rather than with land vehicles.

Offline Chandler

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What about air units?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2007, 08:22:52 PM »
I don't think it would ruin OP3.

Simple - aircraft have a weight restriction: ie they can't carry much if they don't have the power (to produce enough thrust) and wingspan (to produce enough lift)

Basically: Only Lasers/Microwaves on aircraft, as all other weapons are too heavy.

And Arklons point is quite correct, being airborne makes it harder to aim, and also easier to destroy: Lets say (some number) hits of an RPG to take down one of these aircraft, or 1 hit from an EMP, since the aircraft won't be able to fly anymore... :D
Chandler

Offline Exile

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What about air units?
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2007, 01:04:46 AM »
anybody who has played advance wars knows that even battle copters can own near anything on land yes having a weak weapon would fix the problem or being able to knock it down easy but then it's just a waste of good common metals
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Offline Arklon

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What about air units?
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2007, 06:51:28 PM »
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anybody who has played advance wars knows that even battle copters can own near anything on land yes having a weak weapon would fix the problem or being able to knock it down easy but then it's just a waste of good common metals
That's Advance Wars.

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Basically: Only Lasers/Microwaves on aircraft, as all other weapons are too heavy.
The other weapons don't look that much heavier than those.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 06:53:32 PM by Arklon »

Offline Chandler

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What about air units?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2007, 08:09:09 PM »
Well all the projectile weapons would need to store their projectiles, starflares are powerful (read: large-ish) explosives, and thor's hammer is a powerful (read: large-ish) capacitor.

It wouldn't be that much of a waste - their speed, maneuverability (spelling?) and abillity to pass straight over terrain a lynx would have to drive around is quite a good advantage.
Chandler

Offline Arklon

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What about air units?
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2007, 08:23:31 PM »
Making them weak in their integrity and in the damage they can punch makes them hardly any more useful than scorpions.

And there's plenty of aircraft today that launch missiles. Not that their supply of missiles is infinite.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 08:26:04 PM by Arklon »

Offline Rags

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What about air units?
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2007, 10:06:41 AM »
how about making harrier type planes? or a mixture between hovercrafts and planes?

Offline White Claw

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What about air units?
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2007, 09:00:48 PM »
Or projectile based aircraft that can only fire a couple of rounds then have to return to base to reload (ala C&C).

Yes, I know this isn't C&C so please don't blast me about it...  Thnx...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 09:01:51 PM by White Claw »

Offline Freeza-CII

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What about air units?
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2007, 02:05:26 PM »
1 cool fusion reactors
2 energy weapons dont need ammo
3 Air craft can only carry so much before they cant get off the ground or be come so ridiculously big for the small amount of fire power they will have.
4 No such thing as ammo exists in games other then FPS and Sim.
5 Air domination is a problem in other games
6 SAM (Surface to Air Missile) and AAA (Anti Air-craft Artillery) would have to be available to each side.  Thors hammer and other weapons would not be able to reach a air craft realistically.  In the game i could only see rail gun RPG Thors Acid EMP able to hit a air craft.
7 If a air craft is emped its not going to just float in the air its going to fall and die
8 Weapons on the air craft would have to beable to reach the ground.  Meaning Missiles or bombs.  Bringing us back to what every one doesnt want CARPET BOMBING and just plain mass missiles.
9 Even a army of EMP lynx is going to have a hard time defending against that.
10 Being able to destroy a vec with EMP is a no no.
11 The Atmosphere of the planet which is questionable in the first place wont really be able to support even buildings.  
12 Even if they can magically survive.  The next problem is lack of oxygen.  leaving only propellers or some kind of plasma rockets.  One is really really slow and wouldn't be able to lift much either in VTOL or standard configuration.  Also making it a turkey shot if used.  Plasma rockets would be extremely fast making the air craft impossible to hit.  Unless your just going to spam AA fire. Which makes the air craft null and void.

Offline Chandler

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What about air units?
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2007, 08:32:49 PM »
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1 cool fusion reactors
Yes - power will not be a problem
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2 energy weapons dont need ammo
Yes - but their range is limited (ie as a laser get further from its source, the beam diffracts more, making it weaker)
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3 Air craft can only carry so much before they cant get off the ground or be come so ridiculously big for the small amount of fire power they will have.
Exactly, so they can only fire say (pick a number) 6 projectiles before having to land and reload (they can't fly if they carry more)
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4 No such thing as ammo exists in games other then FPS and Sim.
We want OP3 to be original don't we? And if you'll remember games such as C&C: Tiberian Sun (spelling?) Orca Fighters and Bombers needed to land and reload.
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5 Air domination is a problem in other games
Not really - many games use air units successfully (TA, C&C, etc)
The only problem is if people build 100 air units... but then, I see 100 Thor Hammer's as land superiority IF you don't put in defences against it. Hence we have SAM/AAA/EMP.
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6 SAM (Surface to Air Missile) and AAA (Anti Air-craft Artillery) would have to be available to each side.  Thors hammer and other weapons would not be able to reach a air craft realistically. In the game i could only see rail gun RPG Thors Acid EMP able to hit a air craft.
Yes - and projectile weapons would be pretty much the only weapons that could have the range to hit them.
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7 If a air craft is emped its not going to just float in the air its going to fall and die
Correct - and hence air superiority won't be a problem - 1 Emp will kill 1 Aircraft
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8 Weapons on the air craft would have to beable to reach the ground.  Meaning Missiles or bombs.  Bringing us back to what every one doesnt want CARPET BOMBING and just plain mass missiles.
What about amassing RPGs or Thors? Aircraft would have a similar (if not the same) range as RPG/EMP/Acid, so if you can't defend against them, then make yourself a better defense.
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9 Even a army of EMP lynx is going to have a hard time defending against that.
Not really, as an RPG aircraft would have to hit an EMP lynx several times to destroy it, where as the EMP lynx would only have to hit the aircraft ONCE.
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10 Being able to destroy a vec with EMP is a no no.
Essentially, your not destroying the aircraft, your just disabling it... it just happens that if it can't fly, it crashes into the ground.
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11 The Atmosphere of the planet which is questionable in the first place wont really be able to support even buildings.
So where are our buildings going? Where are our vehicles going? Are we playing a game where we look at the scenery? :heh:
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12 Even if they can magically survive.  The next problem is lack of oxygen.  leaving only propellers or some kind of plasma rockets.  One is really really slow and wouldn't be able to lift much either in VTOL or standard configuration.  Also making it a turkey shot if used....
All an aircraft needs to fly in is atmosphere - not oxygen, just some form of gas. The heavier the gas, the better, but as long as the aircraft can generate enough lift, it'll fly.
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12 .... Plasma rockets would be extremely fast making the air craft impossible to hit....
Plasma rockets do not mean fast. We use something called a throttle to determine the amount of accelleration. Also, the size of the thrusters and amount of plasma available would determine the maximum thrust, and in a small aircraft, this wouldn't be all that much.
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12 .... Unless your just going to spam AA fire. Which makes the air craft null and void.
Not really, as you have to have the ore to produce that many AAA, and if you have that much, chances are that the other player can produce that many aircraft. Same as massing GPs to protect against land units. Kinda makes land rushes null and void if you provide ample defense doesn't it? Better get rid of all the land vehicles too, just in case :heh:

Sorry about the post length. Just trying to answer the questions with my opinion. :D
Chandler

Offline gamerscd0

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What about air units?
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2007, 09:09:34 AM »
I think thatb there should be no 'air units' but instead some space units : :unsure:

EMP missle

RPG missle

Colony mover (a craft to send a command center to another location over long distances)

 :huh:  any comments ??  :)


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Offline Rags

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What about air units?
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2007, 10:58:57 AM »
One, chandler i am now convinced, aircrafts should definatly be included. Freeza been slammed!!

two, I think that space units (i am assuming that u mean being able to control in space) are a bad idea. There is enough of a problem controlling and mangaing ground control. Ummm i really don't see how that is technically possible, i mean how can u move an entire building to another area?? i know that was done in CC firestorm but I dont thing that it is remotely possible here. Maybe a building already under construciton?? like the structure kit which is being constructed can be slowly moved?? but then I don't see how it can be done. I don't think that it is a good idea

Offline Stormy

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What about air units?
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2007, 09:01:44 PM »
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who decided it would be so acidic it would eat everything? why would they land on such a planet in the first place?
Who said it was THAT acidic?

I am thinking of a helicopter/plane/VTOL (Vertical-Take-Off-and-Landing) Vehicle
If I remember correctly we said it was a weak version of Venus. But I really dislike the idea of Air units, and being on the rather 'warm' side :P, Freeza's example would be the reason we couldn't use them.

Okay, let's look at this from a novella standpoint. Not from a fun factor, war factor, or superiority factor. In OP2 they had the weapons they had for a reason and were able to carry that out without error.

Secondly, Why would they research this kind of weaponry? It's not like there is a threat in the air or something. They would see going into this new field would take a lot of work and testing before it could be achieved efficiently (and safely), and then seeing that ground units are far more feasible in terms of reliablility and ruggedness.

They would see the required resources (advanced computing, complex research, possibly harmful testing, expensive cost, maintenance costs) as a waste of time.

If you can make it fit with the storyline, then by all means tell us how it would work. I am confident it wont work on Cythera. New Terra it could work, but would be pointless imo due to those things I listed above.

No offence gamerscd, but a Command Center mover would just make the game long and boring. Many people dont like how EMP missles are done in Op2, so why would there be another one?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 09:03:56 PM by Stormy »
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Offline Combine Crusier

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What about air units?
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2007, 10:09:50 AM »
Hey how about a LAHV or Low altitude Hover Vehicle. It would have a helicopter propeller in the middle which would be hollow allowing it to be protected. This unit could be used like my old hover vehicle post only this could be considered an air unit due to the propeler if added... Suggsestion.
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Offline Chandler

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What about air units?
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2007, 08:36:56 PM »
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One, chandler i am now convinced, aircrafts should definatly be included. Freeza been slammed!!

two, I think that space units (i am assuming that u mean being able to control in space) are a bad idea. There is enough of a problem controlling and mangaing ground control. Ummm i really don't see how that is technically possible, i mean how can u move an entire building to another area?? i know that was done in CC firestorm but I dont thing that it is remotely possible here. Maybe a building already under construciton?? like the structure kit which is being constructed can be slowly moved?? but then I don't see how it can be done. I don't think that it is a good idea
Thanks Rags, but the idea was not to slam Freeza, just to provide my view of his problems.
Chandler

Offline Norsehound

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What about air units?
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2007, 11:42:23 AM »
The thing that discourages me from being exited about air units in any OP game is...well...NASA hasn't done it yet.

One of the staples of the outpost series is it's scientific plausibility. We do have the technology now (or very soon), to put large-scale rovers in space and construct buildings much like the ones in OP2. Artists and NASA have been thinking about doing this for along time and have the plans to do so.

But the only ideas for any air vehicles in NASA were simply over glorified Gliders. Rigged with cameras, a rudimentary AI, at best they'd be flying around the landscape looking at things and taking readings of the atmosphere.

They would be as light as they could be for purposes of space and to keep aloft.

The only 'air' vehicles I've seen in NASA art are space-to-ground landing vehicles, or ground-to-space vehicles.

The best we'd end up with probably is something like the UAVs they have going now... and they're just beginning to arm them with light weapons and missiles.

And considering the atmosphere of Genesis' planet, would UAVs really be safe up there in a turbulent, windy environment?

In my opinion, Colony leaders would put more faith in the tried-and-true combat platforms that were tested on new Terra, instead of spending money on unreliable aircraft.

But that's just my opinion *shrugs*
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