Author Topic: Defense Against Air Units  (Read 6969 times)

Offline TH300

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Defense Against Air Units
« on: March 19, 2006, 05:35:23 PM »
Defense against air units

Originally proposed by Freeza-CII

Related ideas:

- air transport

Description:

weapon that can hit air units.

This is a good idea, because:

- air units without air defense would suck.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2006, 06:52:38 PM by TH300 »

Offline Combine Crusier

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 12:01:26 PM »
That's the meteor defense system.
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Offline Betaray

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 12:05:53 PM »
kinda like using a cannon to kill a mosquito don't you think?
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Offline Combine Crusier

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2007, 08:32:58 AM »
That's my kind of defense system!

Hey it's there why not use it of course a ground EMP could disable the defense system.
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Offline Savant 231-A

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 11:31:54 AM »
Didn't we agree that there will be no AIR things? (planes and aircraft and stuff)
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2007, 04:17:28 PM »
You do no use a High powered Laser the shoot down hoards of air craft it doesnt have the fire rate for that.  All you really need to take down a air craft is emp.  It will fall it will die.  If hardened against emp like spiders and scorps.  The one simple truth about a air craft is they have to be light armored and light in weight or they never get off the ground.  This is why they are so easy to shoot down with simple things like AAA (Anti Aircraft Artillery)  which in real life have 2 effects Flak from the explosion of the shell and the explosions concussive force.  Not to mention SAMs (Surface to Air Missile) are always ready to kill any thing.  Sams are built to fly faster then any air craft or else they would be useless.  The fastest sam to day is so where around Mach 7 or 8  thats alot faster then any air craft we have today.  Given the atmosphereic conditions of the planet these planes might be propeller powered or by some fusion rocket.  Either way a missile which is smaller and lighter will always be faster then the aircraft.  Using a laser would be damning for any aircraft mainly because it would kill it almost instantly.  Laser can track faster and better then any Artillery and they wouldnt miss so much because its a beam of light and there is nothing faster then light (So far any way).
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 04:19:31 PM by Freeza-CII »

Offline Tramis

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 02:11:59 AM »
Modern anti aircraft warfare is a lot more complicated than one might think.  First, you have to detect the aircraft coming.  Not always easy, when you consider stealth technology and the fact that radar is prone to not work in bad weather.  Second, you have to "acquire" it.  Not a lot of people know for certain what this means - it means you identify, "yes, its an enemy aircraft.  Yes, it's coming towards us." and you get a lock on it with your AA weapons.  Third, you have to keep your track on it long enough for the guns and missiles to do the job.  This is tricky because any pilot will be doing his damnedest to avoid the flak, using ECM, dropping flares to misguide heat-seeking missiles, and dropping "chaff" - strips of foil, to fog up the radar.  Also, they aren't always easy to see unless it's a clear day - night and bad weather make it tricky to see the target, let alone shoot them down.

And just because you've hit it, doesn't mean its dead.  Freeza is absolutely wrong on that point - even in WWII aircraft were neither frail nor easily destroyed, even more so today.  Modern jet aircraft are overbuilt and armored to last.  Weight isn't nearly as much of an issue with the advent of jet engines.  Many aircraft have duplicate or even triplicate systems - you shoot out his targeting computer, and another one located elsewhere in the craft takes its place.

Little-known fact - when the Germans first came out with their .88 anti-aircraft guns, it was believed that they'd require about 50 shells to take down one aircraft.  In practice, over 12,000 shells were expended for each bogey taken down.  Missiles are more effective, but far more expensive.

It's far from C&C's "shoot missiles at it until it dies" strategy.  In practice, it's very difficult to take down an aircraft, especially before it drops its payload.

All this is assuming we use aircraft in OP3, which I think isn't the best idea.

Offline Freeza-CII

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 04:06:44 AM »
Radar guided, TV guided, Wire guided, Heat seeker,  Image Reconnition, Dumb fire.   Just a few of the styles of missiles.

Stealth technology is not all its cracked up to be.  Stealth air craft and High altitude jets have been shot down.  Even Speed wont stop missiles.

As for AAA.  There no made to hit pinpoint there made to make a wall of explosions and shrapnel.

Offline Combine Crusier

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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2007, 08:52:20 AM »
Why don't both sides just construct a pulse microwave-laser hybrid defense like the meteor defense. That way it could fire rapidly without having the ability to burn up meteors. The flak idea is sweet... Missiile defense weren't designed to take on 20 aircraft at one time, the WW2 flak guns were though! The problem is... Falling debris you shoot it down only to have it's fusion core get lodged in your structure factory. OUTCH. Hey... KAMAKAZIE DRONES!

Let's look at it this way, You need to annihilate the whole air-craft otherwise your just trading a bunch of small bombs for one big one. You need a AA system that will just turn it into dust, something like a Acid or a super heated beam would be the best choice I'd imagine but that's just me. A high explosive MIGHT do the job but I'm not sure. Look at the latest space shuttle explosion It exploded and was subjected to high heat and we still found chuncks of the thing!

I mean no offense by what I say.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2007, 10:32:12 PM »
Oh ya a Super expensive laser that take a entire power plant to run and a Radar system to run so it can target these crafts isnt as effect as a explosion in the air.  Also using a Laser doesnt elemenate debris.  Unless Said laser has a Beam that is wider then the craft itself but the range and recharge these lasers would have they would most likely use up more power then a met Def.  Fusion cores seem to be pretty small considering there in the tractor unit of a convec.

You have to remember These are Air craft there not flying tiger tanks there more like flying Scorps with Lynx weapons.  Missiles and Air Burst shells and EMP would be deadly to them.  A Acid weapon would be pretty good.

Offline dm-horus

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2007, 12:38:35 AM »
A very simple way to balance air units is to make them realistic.

Realism = 1 shot 1 kill

They get hit once by a missile or energy beam, theyre dead. If its bullets it would take a burst or two. Flak instant kill. Missile instant kill. Beam instant kill. Like freeza said, theyre not flying tiger tanks. We CAN have air units, just dont make them overcomplicated.

Offline Combine Crusier

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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2007, 08:23:07 AM »
I agree with you on this one. There is the problem with the fact that grenades don't make very good AA weapons, of course you could mount the grenade in a rocket delivery system which could work, but then there is always counter measures so you'd need a visual lock....
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Offline TRIX Rabbit

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2007, 09:14:21 AM »
umm... Rocket Propelled Grenade? RPG? Put a heat seeking thing on it and youve got yourself a very explosive AA gun
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Offline CK9

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 09:14:43 AM »
Quote
there is nothing faster then light (So far any way).
not true, Freeza, scientist make particles travel faster than light in the lab.
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Offline TH300

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 09:42:00 AM »
Quote
not true, Freeza, scientist make particles travel faster than light in the lab.
I'm really interested in where you got that info. Can you give me a link?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 09:42:21 AM by TH300 »

Offline Freeza-CII

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2007, 03:14:35 PM »
A RPG with a IR seeker head is a Stinger missile or a Side Winder ;).

Grenades no ARTILLERY SHELL yes.  AAA shells arent some small explosive tossed in the air its very deadly stuff.  There the same shell that take out small buildings and battle tanks and entrenched infantry. It just has a Altitude sensing head and a doppler radar to detect a near by object past the safety distance.


I would like to see the link to that to CK9
« Last Edit: March 02, 2007, 03:15:13 PM by Freeza-CII »

Offline dm-horus

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2007, 07:02:37 PM »
TH300, no. Nobody has broken the speed of light barrier. Ever. It is impossible. This is not Star Trek or Back to the Future. It is a physical impossibility to break the speed of light. We have only begin to theorize about exotic particles that may travel faster than the speed of light but they have not been seen or captured. The only phenomena that occurs faster than the speed of light is called "spooky action at a distance" which (as far as we know) does not happen with physical particles of matter or even energy - it is some kind of faster-than-light communication that occurs between particles that have been entangled. If this is communication between particles, the communication cannot make USE of particles. Thats like saying that a 20 story building has a telephone line as big around as a 20 story building.

I suggest you read thru this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light and this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spooky_action_at_a_distance

Faster than light is impossible. If you want to talk about propulsion, fine that may be possible one day through the use of a loophole in physics but I doubt youre going to want to shoot a cannon shell at a singularity so it whips around the other side and hits your opponent on the ground at faster-than-light speeds ;)

AA shells have a preset altitude at which they explode. Artillery personnel have to manually set the range and altitude, they do not have sensors on board the munitions because they are too small. Things like rockets and missiles do, however.

Offline Combine Crusier

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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2007, 08:29:39 AM »
Hate to see that if your accuracy is off on the whip lash. If your off by 1% you'll make your colony one big smoking hole! OUTCH!!!
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Defense Against Air Units
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2007, 07:59:42 PM »
UH ya since TH300 said there wasnt going to be any Air units we really dont need a Air defence.