Author Topic: religion and such  (Read 15996 times)

Phantom

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religion and such
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2004, 04:49:09 PM »
I don't have to prove he exists.
You have to prove that he does not exist.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2004, 05:14:03 PM »
I have already proven that to myself.

I do not like religioun, there are two many instances ere it caused only sorrows.
for example:
1) the crusades, both only left hundreds of thousands, maby even millions, dead just because the two sides were different religons and coldn't get off their high horses and come to an agreemen.
2) Joan Tarc (a.k.a. Joan of Arc), one of the greatest French heros, was killed by the English on religious basis.
3) Jesus was killed by the Romans because he was against their religion.
4) In the past century, there have been many suicide bombings because of the religion of the offenders
5) Hitler used religion (yes, it was a religious belief that Germans with blond hair and blue eyes were supirior) to justify his actions
6) Finaly, not that it's the only other one just that I don't want to go on, since back in the days around when England controlled the passage between the Mediterranian and Red seas there has been a religious struggle in jeruselem for contro over a small area, one side wanting to rebuild a temple to see if their savior will come down to earth.
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Phantom

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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2004, 08:05:21 PM »
Quote
1) the crusades, both only left hundreds of thousands, maby even millions, dead just because the two sides were different religons and coldn't get off their high horses and come to an agreemen.
Well, first of all, it was not because of a religious dissagreement. The religion of england at the time was called Christandom (A sect of christianity). And they sent ruthless criminals to take over the city of Jerusalem in exchange for a pardon for their crimes. Sad to say, the criminals went insane and began ruthlessly slaughtering muslims on their way.

That church pretty much was skewed from actual christianity by the king at that time.

Quote
2) Joan Tarc (a.k.a. Joan of Arc), one of the greatest French heros, was killed by the English on religious basis.

Joan of Arc, who claimed to be a Christian, claimed that someone (God or otherwize told here to kick the English out of France.) Which goes against the very religion that she believes in which the Bible says: Love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you.
Likewise, she was tried by the corrupt religion of Cristendom in England.

Quote
3) Jesus was killed by the Romans because he was against their religion.

First of all, the Romans could care less who Jesus was, it was the Jewish high priests who had a problem with him. Pontious Piolet (The man who had Jesus put to death) said "I find no fault with this man."
The Jews then kept saying Crucify him, and Piolet washed his hands of the matter. "His blood is on your hands" he said to the crowd of jews. "Let his blood rest on us and our children!" they replied.

It was prophesised in the Old Testament (Called the Torah by the Jews) everything that would happen to Jesus including his death.

However, Jesus said, "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do." even while dying on the cross.
And the plan was that Jesus was meant to die, and he knew he would die on the cross, even when he started his ministry.

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4) In the past century, there have been many suicide bombings because of the religion of the offenders

Muslims, who are pretty much the only group that has taken credit for suicide bombings on a regular basis, was created by the man Muhammed for whatever reason, and he added his hate for "Christianity" (Which the kind he reffered to was Cristendom), and the Jews, who claimed to be God's chosen people as said in the old and new testements.
This is why the Muslim religion is the most violent (not the most peacefull) religion known today. The word "Islam" means "Submission" not peace.

Quote
5) Hitler used religion (yes, it was a religious belief that Germans with blond hair and blue eyes were supirior) to justify his actions

Hitler was proven to be mentally ill, and the German people were to afraid to challenge his rule.

Well, I g2g, I'll reply to the rest later.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2004, 08:18:46 PM »
You have yet to prove to me that a God exists.  I don't give a flying monkey if you say you don't need to prove he exists.  You do have to prove it.  And the faith of however many people does not count as proof.
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Offline gpgarrettboast

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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2004, 09:54:29 PM »
I have a few examples, but i choose not to post them. (They are personal, or within my family or friends)

The day you come up with  "proof" that he does not exist, I will counteract you and prove you wrong. :P

I have experienced the power and presence of God.  You cannot say that he is not real.  Attend one of my church services once.  You will change. :)

Offline Kiith Somtaaw

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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2004, 09:57:28 PM »
Did someone Rename this Topic?






 

xfir

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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2004, 09:58:54 PM »
Topic Split. You were going off-topic.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2004, 10:00:09 PM »
garret, I have been to church before, it has only strengthened my conviction that there is no God.  Like you, I have chosen not to post my number one example because it is personal and in my family.  There are only two, maby three people on these forums who found out what it is, and that's more than I wanted.
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Phantom

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« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2004, 12:21:58 AM »
Neways, CK9, you are posting things that have happened in the world, and not in your personal life.

God is personal and cannot be decided upon by outside events. Whatever happened that made you say, "There is no God," happened in your personal life, and that's ok. But to blame it on the world is kindof silly since it is a personal choice.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2004, 03:52:04 PM »
What has happened in my personal life is for me to know.  I have no intention of mixing it in with this forum.
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2004, 12:12:29 AM »
I know that this isn't a very good argument, but give me proof that he doesn't exist.

But like was said, it doesn't matter if you believe or not. If you don't and the day of reckoning comes, you will go to hell (That isn't a cuss word, it is a place). It is said that he will return and those who believe will go to heaven and those who don't won't. So condem your soul for all I care, but I have yet to hear and argument from you that would ever make me think that there isn't a God.
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Phantom

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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2004, 12:23:15 AM »
Well, I find that a little harsh Zeus, even though it is true.

As for CK9, if you don't want to post personal things than that's fine with me. I suggest though, since those can be your only true reasons/feelings against religion, that you hold off on posting in the subject. At least until you feel that you could explain your reasons better.

Seriously, I don't judge anyone by what is said in this topic. But I do want to warn everyone, that if suddenly billions of people dissapear suddenly from the earth, to realize that there is a God in heaven, and to give your lives to him before it is too late.

Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2004, 12:43:33 AM »
I don't judge people either. I'm not saying that CK9 or Kiith or whoever else that doesn't believe is a bad person. Just like people who believe in another God, I don't hold anything against them. I just hold things against people who put down my God or who say that it is stupid for me to believe. It is my right and I do believe. Religion isn't stupid, it gives us who do believe someone to turn to (you pray and talk to God), it gives us something to look forward to after death, and it gives us a reasurrance that we are safe and if we die, then there is a reason (A greater cause if you will).

If you don't believe then that's fine, but don't say that Religion is stupid or that it is stupid to believe or anything to that affect.

Edit: The below picture is just for fun.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2004, 02:38:00 AM by ZeusBD »
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2004, 03:10:49 PM »
tell me this:  If you are supposed to take the bible literally, how can you?  It says that he is an all-forgiving god, yet quick to send you to hell if you worship a different figure.  You can't be spiteful and all forgiving at once.

and yes, hell is a place, a very cold place.
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Phantom

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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2004, 04:36:03 PM »
Well Zeus, that picture may be a joke, but unfortunately it is true. Although I don't take my advice from critics, just from the box office.

Quote
It says that he is an all-forgiving god, yet quick to send you to hell if you worship a different figure.

first of all, it does not say that he is "Quick to send to hell."

Since the beginning of time, the people of this earth have sinned. This separates us from God. Every other god on this earth besides God of the bible was made up in order to fullfill the selfish desires of the person who made up the religion.

He gives everyone the choice to go to hell or not, it is everyone's decision to accept him or not.

He is willing to forgive an infinate amount of debt if we believe in him.

Those who go to hell, go there because of their choice to not believe and not accept God. Out of their pride and arrogance.
However, even if someone accepted God with a dying breath, God would forgive them and bring them into heaven.

Quote
You can't be spiteful and all forgiving at once.

Well, first of all, God isn't spitefull, he is Just. He gives that wich people deserve.

Here is an example for today, Lets say Saddam Hussein is on trial, and lets say that the Jury finds him guilty and sentinces him to death on the charges of mass murder.
Would not it be just for the judge to act on this according to the law of the land?

God does the same thing, however, he also give the option of a full pardon.

Even Saddam Hussein, if he was repentant and gave his life to Christ, then when he dies, he will have assurance of going to heaven.

In conclusion, the Bible was written just as it was made to be taken, litterally.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2004, 04:37:47 PM by Phantom »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2004, 04:50:13 PM »
caught you in a lie right there.

Both of my parents come from very devout catholic families.  And I know for a fact that the bible says that he is a vengeful god (couldn't think of that word last post) yet is an all forgiving god.  if both true, then he's an oxymoron.

as to your comment on multiple god religions, that is not true.  If you knew half as much as I do about ancient Egypt, you would realize that.  The stories of the bible have some truth behind them, but are greatly exadurated to add in those 'miricles'

give me one and you'll get an example.
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Phantom

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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2004, 11:05:51 PM »
Quote
caught you in a lie right there.

Both of my parents come from very devout catholic families. And I know for a fact that the bible says that he is a vengeful god (couldn't think of that word last post) yet is an all forgiving god. if both true, then he's an oxymoron.

spite    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (spt)
n.
Malicious ill will prompting an urge to hurt or humiliate.
An instance of malicious feeling.

vengeĀ·ful    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (vnjfl)
adj.
Desiring vengeance; vindictive.
Indicating or proceeding from a desire for revenge.
Serving to exact vengeance.

As you can see, they are two different words, and I do not appreciate being called a liar.

God has Righteous Vengance, which is, all of the reasons for his sence of "Vengance" are based on his justice.

However, he is all forgiving. He gives us the chance to turn to Him every day. However if we do not except, then we are telling Him that we don't really care that He is willing to forgive us.

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Since the beginning of time, the people of this earth have sinned. This separates us from God. Every other god on this earth besides God of the bible was made up in order to fullfill the selfish desires of the person who made up the religion.

I assume that you are talking about this quote. It has been proven time and time again that the gods of other religions were not able to stand against the God of the bible.

As for God being an Oxymoron, well, even if He was, so what? If He is Omnipotent, then He could do that. You can't try and comprehend what you can't understand.

But anyways, I'll pray for you CK9.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2004, 12:11:02 AM by Phantom »

Offline CK9

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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2004, 11:33:38 PM »
I don't want to be prayed for, but if you must pray, I'll PM you who I would like you to.
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Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2004, 12:18:05 AM »
Okay CK9, he will send you to Hell for your sins if you do not ask for forgivness. He doesn't just say "I don't like you very much, go to Hell." You must believe in him as your God and ask for forgiveness of your sins. You can't take things to literally, he is vengful in the fact that if you sin and do not ask for forgiveness, then he will send you straight to Hell, but he is forgiving in the fact that if you do ask for forgiveness, he isn't hesitant to forgive and let you into Heaven.
In the dark I'm at home, in the light I'm on the battlefield. A Dragon's life is a constant struggle for survival. But in the end, we will prevail.
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Phantom

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« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2004, 12:22:11 AM »
Hey Zeus, you are kinda being a Fire and Brimstone preacher there. Yes, the alternative to accepting God's gift of forgiveness in Christ, but we aren't supposed to cram it down people's throats. lol.

God dislikes it very much when we reject his forgivess, because he loves us, not because he wants to see us burn.

Offline ZeusBD

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« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2004, 12:24:12 AM »
Well, if you do not ask for forgiveness, you do not recieve it and therefor will be judged for all of your sins. I hate to say it, but it's true.
In the dark I'm at home, in the light I'm on the battlefield. A Dragon's life is a constant struggle for survival. But in the end, we will prevail.
Go check out my site: http://www.frankandami.com
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Phantom

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« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2004, 12:38:24 AM »
Yep its true Zeus.

Sometimes I get frustrated with people, yep, it's true. I don't know where any of you are coming from, and I know its none of my buissness. But here is something that some need to hear, not because I want to make sure that you are going to hell. I am posting it because I'd like to see people in heaven instead of hell.

And yes, hell does exist. People have flatlined, and have come back saying that they had gone there. And this has happened many, many times.

Well, here it is:

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised"
-Jesus Christ

Well, its your guys' choice. Its between you and God, and furthermore, its none of my buissiness what you think and why you think it. Like I said b4, its between you and God.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2004, 09:44:41 AM »
You can't go someplace if you do not believe in it.

"It's your hell, you burn in it."
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2004, 08:18:39 PM »
One last question for you, if you are up to trying to answer it completely:

Why should I go with a religion that used me and my kind as the symbol for all things bad and evil?
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Offline Luweeg64

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« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2004, 12:44:26 AM »
Quote
You can't go someplace if you do not believe in it.

"It's your hell, you burn in it."
That's like saying if I don't want it to happen it won't, well, I may not want to get a "D" on my report card, but it will happen if I don't study, you can say there is no hell, but hey if there is one, big mistake. Why not just take the insure and join a relegion?