Ie7

[Eddy-B]

Our company (accidentally) had IE7 installed. We found out yesterday it was scheduled to be installed, so we turned off that install ... only to find out that it got installed ANYWAYZ (what is this, another microsoft virus project ?)

So, not only did we find out it is impossible to deactivate IE7 installation, when you have auto-updates enabled on your network, i also found a nasty problem in the IE backbone structure: "cleartype fonts" !   Apparently: when you turn the checkbox ON - your fonts become UNclear..
For your fonts to become clear again.. you must turn it off... well we found out about this, so that is solved.  Then my collegue thought it be a good idea to check MicroCrap's ClearType Tuner (on their site). It instructs you to install an ActiveX component, then you can set up your "clear type" (meaning your fonts will become unclear, not only in IE and Outlook and other programs that use IE, but your ENTIRE system will suffer!).

My advise is: do NOT install that cleartype-ActiveX junk!

[EDIT] Also found out the installer turns on "font smoothing" in the desktop settings, making ALL your fonts blurred- even outside IE


Also, i cannot (yet) find a way to re-group all my IE buttons: the next/prev-buttons are on the topleft. The menu is not on the top anymore - it has switched place with the addressbar somehow and i cannot move them back to their "original" positions. Then the favorite button is below that. The other buttons are on the right, on this 3rd level. The stop and refresh button are somewhere in the top middle, just next to the addressbar. I think microcrap is laffing its @ss off at its users, trying to make heads or tails out of this IE-jungle !


Since we are not allowed to install 3rd party stuff on our office-pc's .. there's nothing much i can do about it !

[dm-horus]

YES its amazing you said this as I had the same problem tonight during a server install. It was odd because we have a pretty fragmented network. The workstation I was updating had the IE7 prompt on the desktop (it comes as part of a windows update marked as URGENT which is certainly ISNT) and somehow the same install prompt began appearing on all the monitors. Luckily I caught it in time and cancelled the install and deleted the update download files.

Its pretty sneaky how it comes bundled with another update and is marked as urgent AND has a countdown to install so if youre not paying attention, it installs anyway!

Damn Microsoft.

[CK9]

Eddy, you can always do a rollback on the browser files.  It hassome okay features, but I hate the look of it.  Also, for some strange reason my laptop got slower when I refused to install the IE7 update after it downloaded itself...

[Hooman]

No trouble for me. But then I don't have automatic updates on. I just leave it at manual. It still tells you about the update, it just doesn't apply it without you telling it to. Mind you, I had automatic updates turned on a little while ago, and I don't remember doing that myself. Kind of made me wonder there.

And you're right, the interface is a bit uglier. But it does waste less space at least.

Well, now IE has tabbed browsing. Probably about the only thing that other browsers had that I wanted.


Btw, I suspect that clear font thing has to do with the increased use of LCD monitors, and/or higher resolutions. You don't get the same natural antialiasing effect with LCD that you did with CRT, which I've heard a long time back can make certain fonts hard to read. I could be wrong though.
 

[Leviathan]

I just have to say. IE7 sucks!!!

[Mez]

IE7 refuses to install on my PC, the only good thing about windows genuine advantage validation script so far!

I believe there is a long winded way tp stop a mass IE7 network update that requires server registry edits etc, but looks like its too late now!

[BlackBox]

I have all automatic update features turned off and disabled. It won't even warn me about updates, it won't download them (and the services which make up some of the core parts of the automatic update system, such as BITS as well as the automatic update service itself, have been disabled).

As for reverting the installation -- does your office use any sort of system level backup / restore point type of software? I know XP has something like this built in (though most people tend to turn it off, and IE7 installation probably overwrites the last restore point anyway) If they did you could easily revert to IE6 that way.

As for the ClearType stuff, it's designed to be used on LCD monitors only. It looks horrible on a CRT. (I have it enabled right now on this machine -- with an LCD monitor -- it's not bad).

ClearType doesn't need an ActiveX control, I don't know where that came from. There is a ClearType tuner program (I have it) which is installed as a control panel applet -- no sort of ActiveX control.

ClearType is a feature built into the windows XP operating system, if you want to control it directly, go to the Display Properties > Appearance tab > Effects button and there is a setting for "smoothing edges of screen fonts."

I'm not sure why IE7 insists on enabling it automatically / by default even on CRT monitors, since it makes the text very hard to read on a CRT.

Simple advice: get rid of internet explorer completely. It has lots of known security holes that are fixed very slowly (holes which exist even if you have the 'maximum security settings' enabled, which by the way tend to make normal web browsing extremely difficult).

Best bet is to install a good browser such as Firefox or Opera. Sure, they have security problems from time to time but these are usually fixed much faster than IE's holes.

Eddy: when they say you can't install 3rd-party apps, does that mean you can't RUN them either? (Since there are modifications to Firefox which allow it to be run from a USB flash drive, without modifying anything on the host system (all data is stored on the flash drive, nothing gets written to the hard drive filesystem or the registry). If they allow you to use 3rd party apps that don't modify the configuration there should be no problems doing something like this.

[Eddy-B]

heh!  it won't install on MY pc either: im using a virus/worm-safe version of windows  (WIN98SE)   I don't have a virus scanner, automatic updates don't even exist, and most programs aren't allowed to go to ANY IP (not even 127.0.01 - not that they'd try something weird like that).

Suffice it to say: i will NEVER go to IE7 at home. I don't like IE6 .. it has trouble with some features, like displaying source code of pages or copy/paste won't work.. and in on some pages rightclick doens't even work. They all work fine on my IE5.5   Too bad that wikipedia hasn't figured out how backwards compatibility works.. their source html have scripts for IE5.5, or so it says in there... but i think the coder believes that by just inserting the script and not using it will work.


Anyway: IE 5.5 is still my browser, and occasionally i use FireFox

[BlackBox]

im using a virus/worm-safe version of windows   (WIN98SE)

Except that there is very little OS protection and it's very easy for an application to do things it shouldn't do. For example it can access hardware I/O ports and load VXDs without user consent (easily allowing it to get into kernel mode and take over the machine).

This is partly the reason DOS apps work so well in Win9x, because they can access most hardware directly (but can also be a major security problem).

So: use at least NT4 it has security so programs can only access hardware, load drivers, etc based on what the current user is permitted.

[Eddy-B]

I use win98 coz its user interface is better then NT. I used to have NT4.0, but had it replaced back to 98 after a couple months, which i believe worked easier.

As for hardware: i WANT hardware control. In XP (i can't tell for NT4) i cannot access my COM and LPT ports directly, which i need for certain applications. Other then that: i have DOS programs that i still use, which refuse to run under XP, since it does not even have a DOS system.

And for the security issues: maybe the fact that in all my years (i've had a pc since 93) i have never had a virus-scanner installed for longer than a day, and i have contracted 3 viruses/worm in total over those past 13 years (being Tremor, I-love-you, and one i couldn't even find on semantec) and i have manually desinfected my machine all 3 times.
Even worse: the TREMOR virus was the worst one at that date: it had infected over 50% of my DLLs, EXEs and OVLs and all virus scanners that i tried had only one solution: delete all infected files, no recovery possible. I was so frustrated that day, i had taken it upon myself to write a tremor-cleaner that would desinfect all my executables. I managed to write the program within 2 days. Out of all things: I contracted the virus when copying a virusscanner (McAfee, the worst of the lot) which didn't even find it! It was considered a highly advanced virus with polymorphic abilities; it changed size and "shape" each time it copied itself, meaning that off all the virus copies i had there was not a single one in there that looked exactly like any of the other copies. Semantec and the others probably didn't have the stomach to look into the problem and just felt that cutting out the infected flesh was the best way. Even if this meant removing 60% of my windows DLLs > and i couldn't live with that.

All i have for protection is a firewall, which works fine, and a common sense: don't download what i don't know and never install a new ActiveX component when IE prompts for it.  (I'M the one in control of my machine, not the other way around).

And besides: it ain't hard to write a virus (i did a long, long time ago) and ur virus scanner won't pick it up, because it only recognizes the ones that are in its list, and im sure MY program is NOT in that list, it'll take weeks or even months before it hits the list, depending on "successrate" and who gets infected.

[Eddy-B]

One more remark concerning IE7:

If Windows XP exists for several years now, and there have been 2 major updates (IE6 & 7) of their browser, why are they (=MicroCrap) STILL using their old standard controls library (with the grey, Win95-look buttons) and not the new library with the rounded buttons, blue arrow for comboboxes, new style checkboxes etc ?

I don't understand those MS goofs! They can't get anything right!

[Mez]

Its for when you have themes turned off.  I.e. the Themes service set to disabled.

Using Themes has a slight overhead which you might not want running on a workstation/server where maximum productivity is an issue.

Also the older controls are there for compatibility with older, bespoke software, written for 95/98, using those controls.

You have to remember that some companies will have paid millions for a piece of bespoke software, imagine how pissed off they would be if M$ removed the standard libraries for them, so they couldn't upgrade so easily!

[Eddy-B]

Also the older controls are there for compatibility with older, bespoke software, written for 95/98, using those controls.

You have to remember that some companies will have paid millions for a piece of bespoke software, imagine how pissed off they would be if M$ removed the standard libraries for them, so they couldn't upgrade so easily!

I don't want to be a major pain in the royal ass, but windows isn't backwards-compatible AT ALL.
A lot of software has compatibility issues when it comes to using it with a newer verwion of Windows (i.e. lots of packages written for 95/98 environment won't run well on XP, if at all). I imagine these issues will get even worse when it comes to Vista!

[Mez]

Easiest way is to just stop using Windows altogether!

Am I being a bit biased here?

[BlackBox]

Windows XP disables themed controls on windows by default since it seems to cause some graphical glitches in certain programs.

There are a couple things you can do in programs to force them to use the newer controls.

1. Write a manifest file and compile it in / place it in the directory alongside the EXE file. The manifest is designed to force the use of the newer common controls library (thus giving the newer looking controls) -- XP has a feature called "SxS" which basically allows multiple versions of system DLLs (comctl32.dll being an example) to be installed alongside each other (the system stores the different versions in different directories under %SystemRoot%\WinSxS).

2. An application can take advantage of UxTheme.dll directly to load the default theme or its own theme (UxTheme is the XP theming engine). Of course, this is not something you can do for an application you don't have source for -- support code must be included into the program. Also, a program can tell UxTheme to turn off theming. I suspect less programs use this method as it makes it necessary to detect the OS and load dynamically (since UxTheme is not supported on older OSes).

[Hooman]

I think Eddy is being a little overdramatic with his hate for Microsoft again. What are you talking about windows not being backward compatible at all? It still runs OP2 doesn't it?


And keep in mind that there are some fairly significant architectural changes between the Win95/98/ME line and the WinNT/2000/XP line. Things are largely compatible within the same line of Windows, but you can expect some compatibility issues between the lines. Notably in regards to security features. If you want increased security, you're going to have to say goodbye to a few programs that do unsafe things.


Also, if you have problems because you're using a "feature" of an old OS that lets you write over another programs memory, or directly address hardware, should you be blaming yourself or microsoft? If it's bad practice to begin with, why should they continue to support/allow it?


... and I bet on the other hand you get on Microsoft's case about not having a very secure OS. Well which way do you want it? Make up your mind. Increased security and backwards compatibility often don't go hand in hand.