Author Topic: Wiki: Get Rid Of It Or Keep It? (Read 6957 times)

BlackBox · « **on:** October 16, 2006, 02:32:52 PM »

Well, I'm not sure how everyone feels on this issue.

I've always felt that the Wiki has been one of those things that just stagnates, and doesn't really get used for its intended purpose.
It's a mess to look around, to find any useful information in it requires a lot of searching and is usually found within pages that have nothing to do with the desired information.

There are also a lot of pages that say very little or just repeat what another page says.

And furthermore, the wiki is a pain in the butt to maintain (ie. if the database setup changes or in some cases the server configuration changes, it's a lot of work to migrate the wiki to the new settings).

So, tell me what you think: Should we hang onto the wiki? or dump it and just use the main website for useful information?

Mez · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:37:40 PM »

You would still need to find some way of either converting the entire wiki to webpages if it was got rid of though!

BlackBox · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:44:58 PM »

Well, I would say, if we were to do this we could post a lot of it on the main site.

There is a lot of stuff that could just be totally dumped.. like "list of wanted projects." That type of material is probably better suited for a forum.

Also, do many people even look at the wiki that much anymore?

Freeza-CII · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2006, 02:51:15 PM »

First off wiki isnt made to do what we want to do to it. So why are we trying to do it? Because its uber f*** that nothing wrong with our site it doesnt need to be on wiki. The whole site on wiki was to get away from Punboy in the first place he is gone we have the great Galactic dont need it.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2006, 03:00:56 PM »

Scrap it and start over.

Somewhat related: Do we have a maps download area yet?

BlackBox · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2006, 03:10:45 PM »

Quote

Somewhat related: Do we have a maps download area yet?

Not yet. That is a good idea though, could possibly be integrated into the site or forums sometime.

(Agh, I wish there were more people with a working knowledge of PHP; i.e. developed full sites with it before, beyond just 'hello world' or whatever. Then some of these things might actually get done).

Anyway, back on the topic of the wiki. That's where I feel, scrap it, and redo the pages (they all need a major overhaul).

Mez · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2006, 04:46:02 PM »

Ill be doing a team based webpage project using PHP and MYSQL (the specs require backend database use) for uni so ill have a semi-full programming from scratch / modding code knowledge of it by next March (yes a bit late) but Ill be starting to teach myself in the next month or two.

I only know hwo to do some simple addition and concatination and Hello worls atm tho (even then id have to look some of it up again!)

Hooman · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2006, 04:48:09 PM »

I agree. I never saw the wiki fullfilling any real purpose. Sure, it may have had some potential, but I think it was organized all wrong and it's got too much stuff in there that just isn't suited for a wiki.

I think most of the stuff on there would be better suited to webpages, or just being dumpted. Just make sure to organize the web pages nicely. One thing that was a pain about the wiki was knowing where to look to find stuff. It was rather non intuitive how I was supposed to navigate it. Especially since many articles had similar sounding titles that seemed to imply the same thing.

Chandler · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2006, 09:27:29 PM »

I had a fully functioning webpage using PHP + HTML... I quite liked it.
It only really used PHP for the menu system and #includes for the content pages depending on page you want (all pages were index.php?$page=home&$subpage=about to get the Home|About page).
It used arrays to create the menu system, and for the content of your pages, you only needed to have a .txt with all the text you wanted in it (could also include HTML code).
Also had a combo box that I used to change the style sheet.. loved that page.

BlackBox · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2006, 03:09:44 PM »

Well, put it this way:

You would need to know enough PHP to be able to understand the code in the existing system (as you would be writing a module to plug-in to the system).

Furthermore I would probably want to see examples of PHP things you've done (including code).. if we are going to write something from scratch then it needs to be high quality, not something slapped together and full of bugs.

Any other comments on the wiki? e.g. what should be done with the information on the wiki if we are to dump it?

Highlander · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2006, 04:49:44 AM »

Would it be a problem to keep it ?

Not that I'd mind seeing most of the stuff there made into a part of this opu site, but sometimes it's good to keep old info..

Leviathan · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2006, 11:30:05 AM »

keep it

yes it needs work etc

but members need to be able to have a place to make pages for there own maps etc

Brazilian Fan · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2006, 11:48:53 AM »

The Wiki could be remaked, deleting old info and adding new.

TH300 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2006, 04:32:01 AM »

I found the information on the wiki always helpful.

It may be badly organized etc, but its definetly good to have a place where everyone can post important information (besides the forum which is even worse organized).

If we get rid of the wiki, all information should be kept, i.e. put on the website. Don't forget that some people put serious efforts in it.

Leviathan · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2006, 12:45:26 PM »

We just need to define what the wiki should be and what info it should contain and how it should be organized. Starting over may be a good idea, taking the info from the current wiki once we decide the sections of the wiki etc.

BlackBox · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2006, 02:04:24 PM »

If we were to start over, I would probably want to use a different wiki software. Mediawiki (the software we use now) is what runs Wikipedia, and isn't bad feature-wise, but it has severe limitations that make it a maintenance nightmare.

For example-- there is no automatic way to delete users from the system apart from editing the DB manually. Same for revoking rights or adding rights that aren't defined in the UI itself (for example; there are 'bot' and 'developer' rights but those must be added manually).

Configuration of things such as the toolbar on the left is highly manual.

Configuration of base settings such as the server settings, web path, etc are very highly manual and in some cases it can take over an hour to adjust the config file to compensate for the webserver's settings.

Keep in mind that the main site is dynamic. We can add users to it so that they can edit the site, this way they could add content. (Possibly automatically link the forums to it so they can edit in a certain section; I think the system supports some sort of pluggable auth module (or this could be hacked in)).

The main site also uses a WYSIWYG page editor; by contrast, the wiki uses this nasty "wikitext" formatting which is a turn-off for many, many people who would otherwise add/edit pages.

Personally, putting everything we can on the main site and then giving people editing rights to it appears to me the better idea. I think for new people, it's easier to have everything in one place. The main site is easier to manage, easier to edit, and tracks changes just like the wiki does.

Leviathan · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2006, 05:01:49 PM »

Sounds good and I agree.

TH300 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2006, 02:24:49 PM »

Sounds good - no information is lost and everyone can edit it.

Eddy-B · « **Reply #18 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:06:02 AM »

Ok. i am for keeping the wiki.
If it needs a new script instead of the mediawiki, fine, but don't loose and of the information on it.
I've put some work into it as well, and documenting my projects. It is the only solid documentation there is when it comes to coding & coding projects.

alice · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2006, 09:42:54 AM »

I'd go for keeping it, because it could eventually be a good place to find information.. But it would need better editing standards. I agree with the software change.. I've used MediaWiki for a few things and don't really like how the editing is set up (It's not very friendly to people that haven't used it before. I actually had to guide people through using it...) Do you know of any alternatives? It's a good idea, but it's hard to encourage people to contribute to it.. Maybe give them IBStore points for each edit? (Although the IBStore doesn't seem to be being stocked.. And along the lines of the actual usefulness of the items, It may not motivate people enough to work on it. Maybe a different promotion system, such as IPB RPG or something.

BlackBox · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2006, 02:47:49 PM »

I personally wouldn't want to dump all of the information on it (but there are definitely useless pages. A page that lists the contents of each VOL isn't really that useful).

All of the information can be migrated.

The question is mainly this:

What do you want to do with the wiki SYSTEM itself? (not the content on it)
Currently there are really 3 suggestions / choices:

1. Keep everything the way it is (continue to use MediaWiki)

2. Move everything to the main site (yes, it has a complete user-access system and a WYSIWYG editor, see the below picture).

3. Switch to a completely different system totally.

Regardless of what we do, it is absolutely essential that we improve the quality of information available. There are many useless pages, and many incomplete pages. Things need to be organized and the useless pages trashed.

Here's a screenshot of the site editor:

It's hard to say if an easier editor would get people interested in working on it. Like garrett said, perhaps we could offer some sort of incentive to get people to work on it either cleaning it up or adding more information.

Personally, I think #2 is the best option because then it puts all the information all into one place (and yes, the main site does allow people to log in and edit, the controls for that are just completely hidden until you are logged in. It also tracks changes and allows reversing the changes just like the wiki).

Putting everything in one page seems best for new users, that way they don't have to search everywhere to find out what they want to know.

Sl0vi · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2006, 05:27:55 PM »

How do you get all those buttons in the site editor?

And yeah, the wiki is a mess

Combining it with the website does sound like a good idea.

BlackBox · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:51:24 PM »

Log in with the link I gave you, there should be a prompt for username and password. Once you're logged in there will be edit icons on all the pages.

Sl0vi · « **Reply #23 on:** October 26, 2006, 12:32:18 PM »

well, now I can't login at all....

And I know about all the edit buttons, but all I get when I click them is a bunch of html code, no Word like buttons like in your screenshot.

BlackBox · « **Reply #24 on:** October 26, 2006, 01:55:01 PM »

Be sure that you have an up to date browser (and make sure you haven't turned off JavaScript or anything like that which would prevent the scripts from loading).

It works in Firefox 1.5.0.7 and should work in IE6 as well.

PM me, I can reset your password for you.

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Author Topic: Wiki: Get Rid Of It Or Keep It? (Read 6957 times)