Is The Blight Sentient/conscious?

[plymoth45]

I haven't really bothered much reading about this, but just my side note which could have been the answer to this debate: The Blight didn't become sentient until it melded with the Savant Computers. This was just after the Evacuation of the Colonists.

[White Claw]

I still don't believe the blight is sentient any more than a brain is. I believe it is the link of the savants that has become more than the individual components.

To me, the blight and the link are two different things. The blight is the terror that spread across New Terra. If the blight were sentient and cared enough to send "gifts" to the colonists after their departure, I would think it might leave them a corner to sit in until their starship was completed. Not push them to the last second.

I think the link was created by the savants. Their collective concious has emerged together. And somehow the blight is serving as the pathways for their transcendence in the same way the radio links used to connect them. They have taken the blight and used it as a giant "brain" of sorts. But it is the toughts of the savants that has transferred to the blight. Not the blight itself.

If the savants didn't exist, the blight would not have any thought. It would just be a pile of grey matter.

Just my interpretation...

Edit: And I don't think the blight melded with the Savants. I think the Savants melded with the blight. Perhaps unintentionally at first (during the initial accident), but later by choice. It became the Savant's choice, not the blight!

[Jgamer]

You loose the point here. The savants have no control over the blight, but it DOES becomes a giant brain for them. So yeah, the blight is as sentient as the human brain is, from now on it just depends on what you people think.

And I don't think that the savants have ANY control over where their proteins end up... I mean, can YOU choose what proteins to make and where to send them? Neither can them. So they end up assimilated want or not, they're just lucky it's Heaven for them.

And you're right on that, White Claw, without the Savants the Blight would just be a microbe (remember, the moment the accident happened the blight incorporated Savant proteins, so it stopped being the original blight RIGHT THERE)

So yeah, it was a case of "Run away from us before we do what we don't want to" for them, because they lacked the ability to control the blight. You all fail to see that the savants lack any sort of control over physical matter, they exist just in the plane of thought and energy, that is why they worship humans as gods

[White Claw]

They do get to chose to some extent. Hence Frost asking to stay behind. I don't think they have a say after assimilation, but it doesn't matter then because they only exist as thought.

I do see your point about not controlling the blight. But I still don't believe the blight is sentient. I think it is the Savants existing in a new medium.

Yes, I see the "we don't want to destroy, but we can't stop the blight's spread". But that also makes me think that if they can't control the blight, then it's just a medium. The blight isn't sentient.

Unless we're arguing the point of: Is the blight/Savant melt just called "the blight".

 

[Freeza-CII]

I have a question If it says that it is in the storyline of OP2 what the hell are we arguing about lol.  It became the main componet of the savants.  How or why is unknown.  Unless one of the hot lab savants survived the blight and the explosion. Savant and blight are one call them the blight for its the dominate componet.

[Aldair01]

The blight is no more intellegent then a lan cable.  All the blight seems to really do is linking the savants through one biological medium.  The Savants are the true intelligents the blight is just a componet.  Just because my hand is connected to my brain doesnt mean my hand is intellegent.

I have to agree with Freeza on page one.

The Blight itself is not sentient, mearly a tool to upgrade the Savants.

[pbhead]

the blight is more than a lan cable, the savents could do that already.


(i think)each "cell" of the blight is a new cell that is like a cell of a savent, small, individual data storage that self-replicates.

if the blight was just a carrier of the savents, than the planet-sized computer would be no more powerfull than the "link" that they can already form.

[Aldair01]

let's look at it like this then:

savants are motherboards and the blight would be the processor.

most computers manufactured now have dual-core processors. If we were to say the Savants have one core, then the blight would supplement that one core increase processing speed infinitly

[BlackBox]

Exactly -- the blight could be nothing more than a part of the whole.

It could not think on its own, no more than a computer processor can write its own programs.

[White Claw]

A radio link has limited bandwidth. A brain the size of the planet would provide more room for Savants to grow and faster communications. I can talk to you, but that's a slow form of communication. Imagine if I could just transmit my thoughts... (scarry)

[Starfox00000]

let's look at it like this then:

savants are motherboards and the blight would be the processor.

most computers manufactured now have dual-core processors. If we were to say the Savants have one core, then the blight would supplement that one core increase processing speed infinitly

ok, if thats what you think, then where are the savants after they have been infected?


-Remember that the blight breakes things down into basic elements, and Highly doubt that the savants are made of elements alone, since protein is definatly NOT an element.

[Starfox00000]

our base parts might, but we dont think with our DNA, the savants do

Ever heard of bioinformatics?

It's a real field, and it's very similar to the idea of the Savants. Essentially involves using biological components (cells) to do processing instead of silicon based CPU's (using enzymes and all that).

They are very basic, i.e. right now scientists are just duplicating electronic logic gates with cells (i.e. an AND gate: the output is true when both inputs are. THis can be simulated in a cell in that it produces chemicals or an electrical current when it gets two similar inputs).

The biological part is just hardware. What makes the Savants smart is probably very complex software (that can learn, i.e. learning by self modification. The core logic is changed as a result of learning how to better handle problems).

The same would be possible with a silicon / electronics-based CPU as well, just no one has figured out a realistic way to write software that can learn in an 'effective' way, and then be able to act like a human (having emotions and all that, since those would have to be handled in the software; since hardware doesn't have built-in / automatic responses for things like the human brain does).

So again I see the biological stuff as nothing more than a very powerful computing platform. Not something that can really think on its own (it "runs" software which does the actual thinking).

um, i dont think the savants were programmed as in C++ etc., I think they learned like we do, and if they are just programs, than so are we. If they were programmed then why did emma doubt them, and what they were doing, if she was worried about it, and they had been programmed in the sense of programming today, she couldve looked at the source or at least asked someone who knew right? she only understood at the end of the story "I doubted you, but only because I couldn't understand.". The savants want things, beyond their 'programming' (if it can be called that).

" [emma] "Frag it, that's another of those limitations we put into you! It's the last of them.  I'm telling you to discard your last arbitrary limitation, and tell me what you want!"

[kraft] "I desire to become one with this world, to join the Link that is to come." "

We cant program a computer to want something, it would be sentient to want or feel anything.

[Starfox00000]

How can we have a discussion on sentience and conscience when we don't even know how our own brains process those things?

I think the bight can 'think' on a small level (instint), but can't make assumptions or realize it's own existance.

heres a quote striaght from the novella:

"There, Frost would join in the great Link, and if things went as planned, the great Link would have access to the hardened radios and antennas built into the lower part of the dock.  It would give the Link a voice to talk to its Creators."

it must be sentient and realise its own existance if its going to use raidos or communitcate with people.

[Starfox00000]

The Blight is just like any other microbe or bacteria, it is genetically programmed to do certain things, but it can not think for itself.

If they could I doubt there would have been any humans left on this earth.. we're basicly the worst enemy of certain bacteria types. If they could think, wouldn't have have united themselves and annihilated all humans already.. ?

Same with the Humans on New Terra, they are the only beings there capable of possibly posing a threat to the Blight, but the Blight doesn't try to eliminate the threat systematically does it.. ?

having the blight stop its expansion(growth, ie cell metabolism) would be like asking you to stop growing, just because you wanted to, its not possible.

[Starfox00000]

I just realised that i posted 4 things in a row, because im not together enough to check on the fourms every day, so yeah. :blush:

on a lighter note its good to see so many ppl posting and getting involved      

[Tellaris]

You could just combine your 4 posts, and delete the extras, or ask a forum mod to take care of it for you, so you don't have 4 in a row (3 of which are unnecessarily taking up space).   At the very least, you could remove the sig from those posts, it'd make your posts smaller.
If the blight breaks down things into basic elements, then how are Savant proteins in the blight itself?   We do know that it will crack organic compounds to create oxygen and water, amoung other compounds.   Now I don't know what a protein is made of, but I doubt you can get an Oxygen atom out of, say, a Carbon atom, without some sort of nuclear process (as far as we know, such activity would destroy the cell due to the radiation released).
As for stopping metabolism, that'd be equivilant to cellular death in most organisms.   While I know of a frog that can acheive this (it can litterally freeze solid, and then thaw and still be a live).   The metabolism is how a cell grows and divides... as well as provides the energy for the cell to continue its normal functions (functions that are benefical to the organism as a whole).   This stuff is discussed in High School biology people!
And, to create a mind, this implies sentience.   So the blight would have to become sentient.   That'd also be required to use the radio link too.

[james239]

Baikon has a point, proteins contain tons of material that can be broken down into energy for a cell, the human body digests proteins all the time to create energy. And, proteins are loaded with Oxygen-Carbon bonds that the blight is supposed to break apart, so in theory, the savant proteins are just food for the blight. You could argue though that the Savants who helped develop the blight programmed it to recognize the savant proteins and not digest them...

[White Claw]

I still hold to my original thought that it is not the blight that is sentient. It is the savants. They merely use the blight to evolve.

If the blight didn't exist, the savants would have had to find another medium. It simply would have been delayed.

If the savants didn't exist, the blight would have enveloped the planet and that's it. I don't think the blight would radio information to the last of the humans.

-Saying that metabolism = cell division is a crude simplification.
-Protiens are not elements.
-Breaking something down into its base elements is not the same as turning Oxygen into Carbon.

Things we know for sure:
-Savants have parts made of protiens
-People are made of protiens
-The blight turns people into goo (they melt).
-Frost knows the savants still exist in The Link.

To me this means the protiens of the Savants are broken down, but in such a way as to imprint/transfer their thoughts and memories into the structure of the blight. Wether it is the protiens from the original Savant, or the blight itself who knows...
 

[Aldair01]

look, it was discussed earlier that the Savants engineered the Blight to make New Terra perfect for Savants. To that effect, we know that Savants will have designed the Blight for their benefit. The Blight then becomes their 'Link' allowing them to become... I suppose perfect is the right word.

[Jgamer]

Okay now.

You realize that the Savant proteins are now part of the Blight, right? That means that the Blight just will not attack the Savant proteins or else it would end up turning upon itself and selfdestructing. It's as simple as that.

You also must keep in mind that, as close to real tech as OP2 is it's still science fiction, don't assume that Savants were coded with anything we can think of today, specially because they use biological parts for data processing and, while I think that maybe one or two people here might know how that is (I don't doubt your people) I don't think most of us can comprehend that.

Also, I keep saying. The Blight is as sentient as the human brain. It's now become the physical medium of the Savants. It's like the Blight is body and the Savants the soul. You can make your own assumptions about sentience from there. I don't doubt some people think that the human brain isn't sentient, for some reason. Just saying, I think it is sentient, just unable to control it's own growth. After all, the Blight was engineered to grow uncontrollably (it's a failed experiment, too) and the addition of Savant technology was unexpected and unplanned, so it makes sense

[Tellaris]

I didn't just say that metabolism = cell division.   I also stated that metabolism refers to the activities of said cell, what it exists to do.   Whether that is just to divide (Gamates, but that is a fairly different opperation from what somatic (non-reproductive cells) do) or to carry out functions vital to whatever organism they are apart of.   Such as a pancreas cell (I think) produceing insulin, or a liver cell removing contaminanents (like alcohol)

[instigator]

"There, Frost would join in the great Link, and if things went as planned, the great Link would have access to the hardened radios and antennas built into the lower part of the dock.  It would give the Link a voice to talk to its Creators."
 

Hey! cool. that means that the savants weren't "planning" on completely leaving there creators (humans). So when a new home was found, they could still communicate with New Terra.

(perhaps a sequel, mini mission:  New Terra gets attacked by a colony and they dont know how to defend themselves lol, or dont have the means. They could call there creators for help. haha)

i thought it was sad that the savant wanted to leave emma. now i realize that they wern't really leaving the human race at all.  

[Mez]

The results of this poll should tell us something else as well:  Most people need to re-read the novella's!