Author Topic: Outpost: Genesis Info Leak  (Read 37120 times)

Offline leeor_net

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Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2005, 12:35:03 PM »
I had thought that a possibility was to have a vehicle that would spray some sort of chemical to react with the salts in some way.
 

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2005, 02:22:03 PM »
I would just like to point out that the acid on venus is in the clouds not near the surface.  The surface is so hot that it makes nothing less then a gigantic up draft of the whole planets surface.  the exploding salt is good.  But a planet like venus would have the atmospheric pressure like 100 times that of earth.  Me thinks you planet is flawed

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2005, 02:44:51 PM »
Yeah, if it *is* a sequel, why not use a planet close to New Terra in composition ?

Offline instigator

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« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2005, 02:57:13 PM »
Wow @ this thread. this is some info leak.

nah I think it sounds cool. I wouldn't want something like new terra. They were supposed to leave new terra. Its supposed to be a new world. Technology should be advanced enough to withstand an acidic world. after all we are colonizing other planets. anyway. GJ Leeor_net

EDIT: Im not sure if I have the right story line lol
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 02:59:32 PM by instigator »

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2005, 04:38:03 PM »
well you dont go live in a high pressure cooker do ya.  The thing is the planets would have to be like new terra or better then that.  Because it can support human life on the outside of the buildings.  even if you have to use a low pressure enviroment suit.  

Im sorry but i am just that kind of asshole that is going to point this s*** out because it wouldnt work in real life.

And dont any of you tell me its a SCIFI THING.  Even Scifi has a base of truth in it.

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2005, 11:28:15 PM »
What you have to remember is that this is LIKE Venus, no ACTUALLY Venus. That also means that the pressure isn't nearly as high.

In addition, the Sulfiric Acid clouds certainly are up high... but the pockets of NITRIC ACID are not.

There wouldn't be an actual updraft. Actually, there's just a lot of wind on Venus. Although you're right about Venus... it is a Pressure Cooker. But Bob is not. Well, not like Venus is. (it would reach maybe 450 - 550 degrees ^F rather than 800 - 900 degrees ^F). So it's not quite as hostile.

Also, you're forgetting that we're no longer in our Solar System and that the star system this story takes place in will likely have elements that we know nothing of.

Do you have any suggestions that could make the 'Natural Explosions' bit work? This is what I've come up with after several hours of research into planet types and the way various materials react to one another. I'm not a scientest, after all... well, not a professional one.

And, keep in mind that while this is a game with a story highly based on scientific fact, it is fictional so things that may not work on Earth may very well work on just such a planet as bob.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 11:29:43 PM by leeor_net »

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2005, 02:18:21 PM »
Thick clouds and high temps.  What is the size of the planet, how fast does it spin how far away from the sun is it.  If your planet has cloud cover like venus then it better be damn far from the sun.  If it uses facts then I must see the numbers.  if the size planet is that of earth or venus and has the same distance of venus or earth then I do beleive that plant would be to hot.  Not a drop of any thing would hit the ground even at the temps of your planet bob and there is no way in hell a hydrogen acid gas would ever come down from the atmosphere.  A story with scientific fact yet the game is going to be fictonal something just does not add up there.  

Offline Stormy

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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2005, 02:57:54 PM »
o_0 Calm down Freeza!! Lol We are still in the novella outline phase..... I think coming up with dozens of facts at the moment is crazy.
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2005, 03:03:51 PM »
Everyone is just eager :)

Offline Stormy

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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2005, 03:07:22 PM »
You should've seen me when I got started... lol  
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2005, 05:47:53 PM »
Freeza, the OUTPOST SERIES is based on scientific facts and research but still has elements of fiction. This is also what is called "Science Fiction". Star Trek is a perfect example: Dilithium Crystals used to power the Anti-Matter generators used to create the reactions necessary to produce a warp field which is used to propel a space craft faster than light. This is not something that is feasible now and probably won't be for awhile but is still believable.

Also, while Bob is Venus-like, once again, Bob is NOT VENUS. So please give me at least a little bit of a break and put aside the disbelief for a while. In addition, I never said a thing about LIQUID ACIDS. Nitric Acid is in a Gaseous form. Voila, problem solved.

And also, I asked you to come up with something better. Good luck.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2005, 05:49:44 PM »
I am crazy but i am also giving you good input so things can go quicker :P

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2005, 05:55:48 PM »
Quote
Thick clouds and high temps. What is the size of the planet, how fast does it spin how far away from the sun is it. If your planet has cloud cover like venus then it better be damn far from the sun. If it uses facts then I must see the numbers.

Sorry, but I just have to ask. What are these specs for New Terra Freeza?
 

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2005, 07:47:04 PM »
theres fact in it so i must see fact that makes this planet not as hostile as venus when all it sounds like is venus with a slightly altered composition.

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2005, 08:12:22 PM »
True, but at the same time you're also seeming to be more interested in pointing out every single possible flaw than you are to come up with suggestions.

Why not just accept Bob as he is and just leave it at that? It works for me, it works for the rest of the team (as far as I know), Levi and Hooman seem to like it...

As time progresses I'll come up with a more refined version of the explosion phenomena.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2005, 08:43:44 PM »
Nitric acid in a gaseous form... isn't really an acid anymore.

The compounds that form acids don't really become acidic until in an aqueous solution. (The water causes the ions to break apart and thus the compound's properties change).

Unless of course, you are referring to water vapor containing dissolved HNO3.

Other things with the planet: Shouldnt it be somewhat like New Terra? (This *is* a sequel after all). Maybe even allow the player to play on one of many planets.
Also, I'm sure I shouldn't have to worry about it but I hope it gets a better name than "bob." <_<

And wouldn't you want to hear our input? Sort thru the deluge of messages on your own time. It's better to take people's input than make the game the way *you* and you alone want to make it, no one's gonna want to play it. Listen to the input of others, and get a better game that way.

It sounds harsh but that is frankly the reality of things.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2005, 09:03:14 PM »
Well I am talking about a Atmosphere made of thick coulds like venus, which is how i understand this planet is like.  And clouds as we know them are made up of water droplets  Thus you can have a acid in the air.  But it would only come down are rain drops.  But because of the heat of the planet caused by Greenhouse effect.  The rain drops would never even get close the the ground.

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2005, 10:04:47 PM »
hacker, I'm very much interested in listening to input. But, when the only input I have is "this doesn't work", I have nothing really to go from.

And you're right about the acids... hehe. Also, Bob is just a temporary name. We need a new one. ANy suggestions.

As far as the clouds, they aren't made up of water droplets like on earth. They are made up of sulfuric acid droplets which makes them extremely volatile.

I wonder though... my original though about the cause of the explosions was that pockets of some sort of gas are trapped underneath the surface of Bob. Now and then these gasses would be released which, when in contact with some chemical in the atmosphere, reacts explosivley. I think this may work better but I don't know what these 'gasses' would be and I don't know what gasses react with eachother to explode.

Also, another note, there is very high wind and extremely powerful lightning on Bob. Pretty damn hostile... :-) Everyone will soon see why we chose 'Bob' for this particular story. This one is DEFINATLY remaining a secret!

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2005, 10:28:53 PM »
Chakran (Cha  Kran),  Ramsau (Ram zow),  Derf,  Seizewell (Seaze well),  Loh'won (Low ho won),  Gazallu (Ga zall u),  Opal,  Diphidia (Dip phid ia),  New Venus.  Im sure i can think up a whole s*** load of names.

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2005, 12:43:09 AM »
Actually, I don't much like the idea. I just thought Freeza's criticism was being a bit too harsh. The idea of clouds floating about the surface and reacting with exposed salts just doesn't seem to fit well with me. I mean, think about how old a planet is? If this were a common occurance, which you'd expect for it to have any impact on the game, then why haven't all these chemicals been used up over the many years of the planet's life? I know you said something about surface winds uncovering these deposits, but still, it seems like you'd have to go pretty far down by this point to reach anything that would react violently with the atmosphere. I could understand if drilling from mining released substances like this, but not from surface winds. It would also ensure these disasters happen close to some player buildings. Make them drill and unleash it upon themselves. If they don't risk it, they don't get ore and slowly starve out. Maybe even have a degree of risk associated with areas. Like when a robo surveyor scans an area, have extra details, like trapped pockets of gas, or pressure, or possible contaminants, and other harmful materials. You could then also develop techs for dealing with these areas in a safe/safer manner.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2005, 12:44:22 AM by Hooman »

Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2005, 11:26:21 AM »
Hooman, I think I'll use the idea that mining operations could 'puncture' pockets of some sort of voltile gas causing an explosion. In this way, the mining equipment could be the catalys.

And of course the survey data! :)

That is EXACTLY the kind if input I was hoping to get! Thanks!

However, I think it would be neat for the rare occurance of an actual explosion that happens out of nowhere. Like, just somewhere in the middle of the game field at any time a rupture could appear, the trapped gas becomes exposed to the harsh atmosphere and Boom. As Bob will probably be somewhat volcanically or tectonically active, this could be explained by ground tremors.

But are there gasses that we know of on Earth that are volatile enough to react violently with another gas to cause a full-out explosion?

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2005, 11:35:26 AM »
My point was with a atmosphere like venuses you wouldnt have any day and night None of the acid droplets would touch the vecs or building The heat and pressure would crush the buildings and vecs.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2005, 11:37:46 AM »
Ya there are gas that can do that and there are some that may cause implosions as well the names how ever escape me.

Offline instigator

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« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2005, 12:47:38 PM »
not if you have the right technology freeza... like say force fields. and if the power goes out then all of the structures will progressivly get damaged. they will become destroyed if the power doesnt come back on in short order. just an example....

 

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2005, 02:23:06 PM »
Quote
But are there gasses that we know of on Earth that are volatile enough to react violently with another gas to cause a full-out explosion?

I guess there would be a few, but it most likely won't suddenly happen now without some sort of catalyst. If such things did happen so spontaneously, I would expect the reactants to be used up already. Now I can kinda understand your desire for random disasters all over the map, which of course you do nothing to cause. It just wouldn't be Outpost without them. But I think you need some kind of event that causes these things. Certain disasters just work. Like earthquake and volcanic eruptions. What causes them is beneath the earth and not something the player sees or needs to concern themselves with really. I can't see it going any further than the simple warning system used in Outpost2. But for something like lightning to occur, you must first have the conditions of a storm arise. Maybe if you had something like lightning from a storm causing a violent explosion with surface or atmospheric substances? Then you can reasonably expect such gases or whatever to naturally build up, and stay there until some external force acts on them. It wouldn't be too unexpected for gases to be released by geological activity, but I think they'd either react as soon as they're released, or need some sort of event to cause it.

Hmm, I wonder what would happen if ligtning stuck a vortex of volatile gases?


As for chemical reactions, if you have oxygen on your planet, then any hydrocarbon could explode given an initial spark. The lighter ones would of course be gases, such as methane. Also, methane seems to be rather common, and I believe it's known to come from geological activity. (Someone else want to correct me on that?)

The only other fun reaction I can think of, is cesium and water. But I don't see how that can be worked into the game very well. The best I can think of is maybe having a dry planet with lots of cesium, but no water. Then when you arrive, you supply the water. Clean hydrogen burning Cargo Trucks anybody? :P Yeah..., maybe not. Besides, I don't think that's so much of an explosion as just a violent reaction that releases a lot of heat. But I guess that can still be plenty harmful.

Hmm, why not a slower acting disaster like that? It might give you a bit more time to react and try to reduce the damage done even after it's started.