Author Topic: New Idea  (Read 3571 times)

Offline spirit1flyer

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New Idea
« on: August 22, 2005, 09:27:45 AM »
I have long thought how there is only two Eden colony missions. and only three Plymouth colony missions thats not many we need more. i have seen many people say that there is not enough single player colony missions. and I think there is no need for new multiplayer maps there is already a lot of those.

my idea is to create a package of missions to add to single player. I've talked to Hacker and he seemed to think it was a good idea. Anyone who wants can help with this idea and if you don't know coding than you can make maps for the missions.

I was thinking if we get this going we could start out by making two colony missions one for Eden and one for Plymouth and after that maybe make a bigger pack like two too three missions apiece for Eden and Plymouth.

I am going to start working on it. and if you don't mind me directing this as to what maps or missions we make please let me know.

Pm me if you want to help or post here

Spirit
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 09:29:08 AM by spirit1flyer »
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Offline Eddy-B

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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 01:05:48 PM »
sounds like a swell idea.
I wanted to do this for a long time already, just been too busy with renegades. All free time i have is spent there. BUT: i did learn a LOT about AI coding this way, and i think i can be of invaluable assistance in developing the AI for such maps. Count me in!
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2005, 02:07:31 PM »
That is a cool idea. I've been wondering a lot about that myself. I would love to do it, but unfortunatly I have neither the time nor the OP2 programming know-how at this point to create new maps. I'm very busy with a lot of things including OUTPOST: Missing In Action that I've finally, after several months of deadness in the water, am getting back to work on (geez.... it's not easy getting back into a project that I've not worked on for awhile, whatever the reason).

If someone else doesn't take on the task, once I finish up a bunch of things and tie some loose ends I will be happy to take on some of these ideas! :D

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 04:04:00 PM »
Quote
sounds like a swell idea.
I wanted to do this for a long time already, just been too busy with renegades. All free time i have is spent there. BUT: i did learn a LOT about AI coding this way, and i think i can be of invaluable assistance in developing the AI for such maps. Count me in!



thank for your support Eddy-B  :) I am just starting to learn about how to code myself out of a box  :P should I send you the maps when they are done and tell you what I want on them? how shall we do this you think? if you mind me being incharge of this idea just tell me  ;) and someone else can take over but until someone complains I will be incharge  :P


Quote
That is a cool idea. I've been wondering a lot about that myself. I would love to do it, but unfortunatly I have neither the time nor the OP2 programming know-how at this point to create new maps. I'm very busy with a lot of things including OUTPOST: Missing In Action that I've finally, after several months of deadness in the water, am getting back to work on (geez.... it's not easy getting back into a project that I've not worked on for awhile, whatever the reason).

If someone else doesn't take on the task, once I finish up a bunch of things and tie some loose ends I will be happy to take on some of these ideas!

well I am right now heading up the task of getting it going. Perhaps I will stay incharge and perhaps not. but thanks for your support  :)

spirit
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 04:05:01 PM by spirit1flyer »
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 03:41:06 PM »
the idea is not new

I'd also like to play new single player missions.

As soon as I have the time, I'll work on some new maps. Don't expect them too soon.

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 05:03:22 PM »
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the idea is not new

I'd also like to play new single player missions.

As soon as I have the time, I'll work on some new maps. Don't expect them too soon.

well I am making some right now and if you want to do it you could work with me at making a pack of singleplayer maps to put up for download. and what I meant by new was I had not seen anyone who was making them I had just seen lots of people who talked about doing it but never did
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 05:47:18 PM »
as I see it the maps aren't the problem, but the AIs are.
The reason why nobody did this yet is that we have too few coders. I am not a coder (In the sense of that I'm not going to code op2 missions), I won't make the AI for my own map, someone else will have to.

Offline Eddy-B

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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 05:59:57 PM »
'AI' as the one you find in the original colony games is just a bunch of tanks coming in every now and then. That won't take long to code..
A real AI would have a base of its own, protecting it, AND going for the same goal you are: get off this planet first! If the AI beats u to it, u lost..

But of course, you can think of any kind of victory condition.
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Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 06:09:05 PM »
Quote
as I see it the maps aren't the problem, but the AIs are.
The reason why nobody did this yet is that we have too few coders. I am not a coder (In the sense of that I'm not going to code op2 missions), I won't make the AI for my own map, someone else will have to.


I am not a coder eather but I am trying to learn how. but would you like to be on the team?

Quote
'AI' as the one you find in the original colony games is just a bunch of tanks coming in every now and then. That won't take long to code..
A real AI would have a base of its own, protecting it, AND going for the same goal you are: get off this planet first! If the AI beats u to it, u lost..

But of course, you can think of any kind of victory condition.

Eddy-B check out the first colony game idea for what type of coding I am thinking of


spirit

 
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Offline RipperKhan

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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 06:50:15 PM »
um what ppl need to do is make triggers with predefined actions for the ai and make it tand have it built into a map program, that woudl be very kool, u know like the way sc world editor is like.

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 06:52:26 PM »
yea well we are still setting this up  ;)  

did you want to help with this community project that I have started?





spirit


 
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 07:03:03 PM »
I will make map(s) when needed. I could possibly learn AI coding, but I don't have the time for that.

And yes, an AI that just moves tanks in is quickly done, but who wants it? games in which the AI has a base on the map are by far more fun.

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 07:16:43 PM »
Quote
I will make map(s) when needed. I could possibly learn AI coding, but I don't have the time for that.

And yes, an AI that just moves tanks in is quickly done, but who wants it? games in which the AI has a base on the map are by far more fun.


okay as soon as I get an idea for another colony game I will tell you so you can make a map for it I am going to add you to the team since you are willing to make maps for the project  ;)


spirit
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2005, 07:42:13 AM »
It's not too hard to setup an AI with a base on the map.

Simple example:
Code: [Select]
/* Yes, you would need the code for support structures like smelters, etc.. but that's not hard */
// Get the AI to produce tanks
Unit VF;
TethysGame::CreateUnit(VF, mapVehicleFactory, LOCATION(X,Y), 1, mapNone, 0); // set X,Y to location of VF
FightGroup fighters = CreateFightGroup(Player[1]);
BuildingGroup producer = CreateBuildingGroup(Player[1]);
producer.TakeUnit(VF); // adds VF to the 'production' group
producer.RecordVehReinforceGroup(fighters, 0); // this group is responsible to make the units for the fight group
// Now you can add units by doing this
fighters.SetTargCount(mapLynx, mapMicrowave, 2); // tells game to make 2 mic lynx
// Defend base
fighters.AddGuardedRect(MAP_RECT(X1,Y1,X2,Y2)) // set the X1--Y2 cords to the area of the base they want to defend
fighters.DoGuardRect(); // guard

Pretty close to that. This will produce an AI that uses 2 microwave lynx to move around it's base. If they get destroyed, the game automatically 'reinforces' them by creating 2 more.

 

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2005, 08:41:33 AM »
that does not seem too hard  :)

spirit
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Offline TH300

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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2005, 10:13:12 AM »
hacker, you know that in a multiplayer match you won't survive long with this strategy don't you? And in general you shouldn't just let it create tanks and wait for them to get destroyed. Imagine the player attacks with Stickies and the AI doesn't prevent him from stickying its units.

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2005, 11:00:26 AM »
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hacker, you know that in a multiplayer match you won't survive long with this strategy don't you? And in general you shouldn't just let it create tanks and wait for them to get destroyed. Imagine the player attacks with Stickies and the AI doesn't prevent him from stickying its units.


he was just showing how it would not be to hard to code the AI units we don't plan on using that and nothing else that would be to easy


spirit
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Offline leeor_net

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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2005, 05:53:06 PM »
How advanced do you really want the AI to be? Personally, I hate the damn vehicles that come and kick my ass in the colony games. By the time I have enough resources to have researched and built a single Laser Lynx, the AI is coming in with Tiger's and Sticky Foams. Not much of a match (although entirely predictable).

Anyway, AI is not particularly difficult to do. What hacker was suggesting is merely an example of what can be done.

Of course, the fact that the AI needs to be programmed into the map (the fact that maps need DLL's to function in the FIRST place) turns off a LOT of users to the idea of creating maps.

Creating maps for StarCraft, for instance, requires that you simply build a map, set a few things and activate some triggers. Creating maps for Quake-series games requires that you have at least one brush in the map to stand on (otherwise you'll just fall around in the void until you splatter) and set an 'info_player_start' entity. No programming required.

I guess Dynamix REALLY didn't want users to create their own maps because the idea of mapping to many people is inviting but as soon as they here C++ thoughts go the way of the dinosaur.

I believe Eddy-B has come up with some sort of Trigger system, am I right? I remember some conversations we had on IRC. If that's the case than at least we've got a bit of a base.

Our mapping tool is a little on the lacking side (no offense, hacker! it's great so far and a lot of good work has been done) so that doesn't really help the mapping cause.

Anyway, what really needs to happen to get mapping to be much more inviting to non-coders is the ability to have the mapper create the source code for the user (it appears that hacker had exactly that in mind with the 'Compile' option in op2mapper).

hmmm... something to help remedy the situation: if we get a bunch of source code from various maps that is coded well and provides a great base for various functions, the mapper could be set up in such a way that the source code is produced by the mapper as the user creates the map (e.g., the map is created with several settings set so the appropriate entry function is created). It seems that having several blocks of code would make it easier for the mapper to create the code (e.g., Entry Point, Resource Setup, Unit/Colony Setup, AI, Disaster, triggers, etc.).

Either way, it's going to be awhile before that happens simply because a lot of the aforementioned code hasn't been produced yet. I'll volunteer whatever code I come up with (once I clean it up and become more fluent in OP2's coding intricasies). I'm also hoping that others will volunteer decent code as well so that we may be able to get some sort of code-base going.

Offline spirit1flyer

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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2005, 06:17:25 PM »
Quote
  How advanced do you really want the AI to be? Personally, I hate the damn vehicles that come and kick my ass in the colony games. By the time I have enough resources to have researched and built a single Laser Lynx, the AI is coming in with Tiger's and Sticky Foams. Not much of a match (although entirely predictable).

Well my goal right now is to be able to do what the colony games have and after that, go on to code AI worthy of a human player.  The only AI coding I have tried so far has flopped but I am learning more C++ so someday I might be able to do my last goal.

Quote
Of course, the fact that the AI needs to be programmed into the map (the fact that maps need DLL's to function in the FIRST place) turns off a LOT of users to the idea of creating maps.

when I first saw this job as something that needed to be done, I had no idea how hard it  might be.  but I now know how hard it is.


Spirit


 
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