Guard Post Patch?

[Sirbomber]

A few of us were talking and we started complaining about how the Guard Post was useless and made even more useless by the fact that it couldn't even go down fighting because it becomes disabled due to damage. Then Hooman asked if he should hack the GP so it won't be disabled due to damage.
So, what do people think?

[Tellaris]

Is that even possible? From the looks of it, OP2 considers the GP as a building, and as such, is subject to the damage limit, unless that can be easily changed to something else (ex 0) without the game crashing...

To be honest, I don't think GPs should get a boost. You shouldn't be able to just dig in and become impossible to attack (SupCom would greatly suffer from this if Experimental weapons didn't exist).
Guardposts shouldn't be able to hold their own against an attacking army. They should be used to deter flare/novae sneak attacks, and to supplement a defense, even acting as a deterrent to small raids, and for this, they do the job admirably. I really don't think a change to their functioning is necessary.

Also note, that a properly upgraded GP, with tubes, is about as powerful, if not more so, then a panther. (Heavy armor, +50% damage, +25% damage reduction (Dirt), Increased sight range)
I know the last one doesn't help much with fighting, but it certainly helps provide a second or so more of warning if you happen to spot a night sneak.

[Savant 231-A]

I agree. GP's are buildings made for battle, and such should not be disabled by damage. They should have some kind of protection from that stuff.

[DarekStar]

Warning User refuses to correct spelling be advised and dont correct me[/size]

my idea is yes but only if a tube connection is pressent.


in my mind i see the guardposts going idle because of onbourd prossesor(or whatever controles em) or generator damage and in eather case a tube conection can allow the Cc(Command Center) to take over those tasks.

but with out a connection the turrets should go disable.


this should keep it ballanced



(and thinking of this i had a new building idea....gotta learn how to hack so i can hack op2...eh)

[Savant 231-A]

Warning User refuses to correct spelling be advised and dont correct me[/size]

 :huh:  

[Highlander]

I agree with Tellaris here.

No need for this.

[Sirbomber]

How can you say that? A Guard Post can't even stand up to a few Laser Lynx! Being disabled due to damage just makes it worse!
I sometimes wonder why the even bothered including the Guard Post. It's so useless.

[Hidiot]

A higher HP rating could work... if tweaked enough, you will get the same length of activity as the current one without damage disabling. And it's much easier to change... one file. Big issue is synchronizing with everybody that plays multi player.

And yeah... GP's need more attention. The fact that you need to leave 1 empty space between each two turrets and the fact that they explode when destroyed make them almost worthless compared to a big army. Best thing they can do is delay the opponent without creating heavy losses for him (considering the opponent knows how to attack GP's). But a successful defense should also be achieved with turrets, but just by units.

[Freeza-CII]

well vecs slow down when they are damage that is there fail point and GPs fail when damaged to much.

[Sirbomber]

well vecs slow down when they are damage that is there fail point and GPs fail when damaged to much.

No, their "fail point" is their complete lack of mobility.

[DarekStar]

look guard posts have a place in defence if you know location find a place with a botleneck some gp's will waist em but in open areas there not as good as a moble defence like turreted vehicals that we all love so much the gp's have a strong point and week point only thinkg i can see is giving gp's longer attack ranges then the vehical vertions cence their weapons can be bigger because of stationary status.

[Freeza-CII]

giving them a long range doesnt solve any thing infact if causes more problems

A sticky GP would beable to stop alot of stuff and it may never die at all and a Acid and a ESG would be just as bad making tigers the only way of busting in.

[DarekStar]

well dont give those weapons long range but others like laser and micro should have longerrange due to larger components same with the thore but i think it shouldnt be given longer range low damage systems should be upgraded for range to copensate for low damage and poor defence of the gp's in open terrain.

[Highlander]

1)

I suggest we listen to someone with experience here. Tellaris is a notorious GP user, so if you don't want to listen to me making my explanations, take his word for it ?


2)

If GP's become any stronger, how do you figure Plymouth would get through an Eden defensive line ? (Given it's a proper one)

[CK9]

1)

I love using GPs, and find that, even in an open area, they can do a ton of damage if you use the right ones in the right configuration (in otherwords, if you're lineing them up in a grid pattern, you're making it easy for anyone to just rush through it; If you put them in a checker-board pattern, it will be more difficult for units to pass through).

2)

If GP's are stronger, plymouth can still get through a defensive line (EMP missles anyone?).  And  

[Tellaris]

The concern really shouldn't be about Plymouth. Odds are, eventually, at least ONE EMP missile will slip by the meteor defense eventually. All the plymouther has to do is wait and then blast away when the defenses go down. No, a change to guard post function would easily cripple Eden instead of helping them, and would have the added bonus of causing more deadlocks. Eden's defenses are already considerable with a tubed Thor's Hammer GP wiping out lynxes in one good hit. Plymouth can (sort of) get around that by missile spamming. Eden will suffer more as their only choice is to brute force it... and stronger GP would completely eliminate Eden's field advantage due to Thor's... Making it litterally impossible to attack a plymouth player.
... Like it isn't already when hes spamming missiles...
But arguing about emp missiles is for another thread. Just take it this way. Plym + EMP Missile > Eden.

[Hooman]

Umm, I would like to remind people that this thread was mainly about patching GPs so they don't get disabled due to damage, and not about beefing them up in any other way. How much more effective do you think this would make them?

Currently, buildings are disabled at 25% hitpoints. This patch would mean they'd be able to shoot back for their full lifetime, instead of 75% of their lifetime. Remember that it will take just as much firepower to actually kill them. The only difference is how long they have to fight back. Increasing their fighting lifetime from 75% to 100% is a 33% increase (not a 25% increase) in how much damage they can do. But this mostly only applies when overkill is not involved. That means the increase will be most effective when there are a small number of attacking units, and much less effective against a large army. How many people tell their units to switch to a new target when the GP is disabled due to damage? Because if you don't, this won't make a difference for a large attacking army. Even if you did, it'd only matter if just enough units had fired at it to disable it, but not enough to kill it. This would probably work out to about maybe an extra attack per GP. Plus, if you only disabled the GP, you'd have to be weary about moving in closer to take out other units behind it, because that GP could then blow up and kill your units.


If people want to test this out, I could always make a test level to do this. Making this change for a specific level should be fairly easy to do.
 

[DarekStar]

i apologise i gorgot to add in red bold print Rambling in last 2 posts i do that sometimes but my point is clear the GP's should be active like hooman said with thair entire life


my point is only if a tube connection is found but i dunno if that can be desided.

[Paco]

I think posts are fine the way they are for right now. Agreed all with Tellaris on this one.

[Arklon]

If guard posts are fine, why are they very underused? Building combat vehicles is generally more advantageous, with the only downside being a hit to your vehicle cap.
- GPs take 3x3 tiles, vehicles only take 1, so you can put more firepower in the same space by making vehicles
- GPs explode randomly when damaged, and their explosion damages neighboring units and it instantly kills lynx
- GPs sorta need tube connections to be optimal, vehicles don't need any
- Starting weapon GPs are helpless against sticky, all GPs except acid and ESG (will need to manually fire them to go out as far as they can, and you'll need tube connections, and  I've seen plenty of times this is buggy and the GP will randomly stop its fire order at that range but is fine at any other) are helpless against acid
- GPs are much more of a pain to set up, in that you need to hold up your structure factory from making other things, and then hold up your ConVecs for a while as they creep toward the factory, load, then creep down to where the GP is to be built, and then back to the factory to be loaded with more s***; with vehicles, you just build them and move them into place
- Tigers.

Eden will suffer more as their only choice is to brute force it... and stronger GP would completely eliminate Eden's field advantage due to Thor's... Making it litterally impossible to attack a plymouth player.

Brute force kinda is Eden's exact play style... And yeah, missiles are imba but that's a different discussion.

[Norsehound]

I always thought GPs, if anything, should be more powerful damage-wise since they have direct access to power from the colony reactors.

I already find Guard posts difficult enough to deal with when I'm attacking bases. When defending, I like setting them up anyway for supplemental firepower. Plus, you can build them while your vehicle factory is producing units.

:op2:

[CK9]

Gaurd posts are like a fire-resistant suit: not ment to completely stop it, but can help in softening the blow.  People seem to always have a low opinion of GP and wall use, but if you know how to build them up right, you make a bottle-kneck that takes out up to 50% of the attacking forces.  It's nice, yea?

[Sirbomber]

Several months later, it's 12 yea and 7 nay.

But ultimately it's all up to Hooman.
Having said that... (annoys Hooman and waits for an answer).

[Hidiot]

I see 14 yea and 7 nay

[Sirbomber]

Then it changed since last night.