Quitters.

[Starfox00000]

I'm not really sure how to say this except to just get it over with:
People keep quitting in game. Weather its just taking down your cc or just stopping fighting its all the same thing, and frankly, I'm pissed about it. Case in point: I just finished a game with xamlit where in we were both plymouth and both had big tiger armies and a SP each. I managed to get a flare through and take out two of his common smelters in the back of his base (this was on pie, 1v1). He then proceeded to say gg and stopped making units or any effort to continue and allied me. When I didn't ally him he took down his cc. wtf. I was also talking to g2feildy a few days ago when he said that lately when he was beat he would take down his CC. again wtf. Are there any players left who don't just quit and give up? Yesterday I won a game against memspiderdee and g2feildy where I had no means of producing common ore (no tubes to smelters/couldnt build tubes), my CC was in the yellow, and no SF by sneaking my remaining thors lynx into memspiderdee's base (after killing the units left behind to kill my cc).

I will ask it again. Are there no players left who will continue to fight even if the odds aren't in their favor?

Edit: I was looking around the fourms and saw this quote by zanco:

I refuse to play with Missile Whores, Scout Rushers, GP Rushers, Tube Cutters, Stackers, and Lab Bombers except under special circumstances. By starting a game with me as a player you agree to refrain from the use of the aformentioned tactics. Failure to adhere to these terms may result in me leaving the game with little or no prior warning.

Now, this is really nice example of rules. Only thing is it is not a prerequisite for playing games on OPU. The "Rule" should be anyone make up their own before their own game.
Maybe this should be called the "Bomber Rule" or something.


One last thing, Please stop the whining after you finish gaming, this is directed to EVERYONE, if you don't want to lose and/or be an a$$, just uninstall OP2.

I thought it was relevant because I'm sure people will say "just don't play with those ppl", well newsflash, there aren't enough players to say that and still actually play online games of op2.

Basically its saying that I should uninstall op2 and not play it because other people are being assholes. Thats like saying I should stop going out in public because if I do people will punch me in the face. Obviously its my fault for being out in public.

[Sirbomber]

You're upset because you won?
What I do is kill all of their ConVecs first so they can't decon their CC.

[Hidiot]

I would take games to the end even if I lost... depending on my mood... But my mood doesn't always let that...

Just be glad you won. Some people prefer to play the game in more equal terms rather than cling to a thread of hope. You've got the skill to get your units to their CC's, but not all have that, when they know they're about to loose.


my current opinion... and splattered out without much though... may change over time!

This subject is so open to debate, cause there isn't really an easy way for all those involved.

[BlackBox]

I have to agree with Starfox00000 on this one. Although my opinion probably doesn't matter much to a lot of people since I don't play OP2 that often, I think it's just plain good sportsmanship to play the game to its end.

I've often considered setting up some sort of "information" system where people can post anonymous comments about other players, this way people could find out easily who the quitters were. (maybe they would start getting the point after no one wanted to play them anymore?)

To those who quit games like this: When you do that, you're just being a real big jerkoff. You're screwing the game for everyone else who wants to enjoy it.

Honestly, I would hope that people refuse to play with people who quit, break BM/AM, etc. (although this isn't always the most realistic thing in a small community like ours).

That's my two cents about this whole problem as I see it.

[Highlander]

Well as long as the "top" players don't act as role models for the newcomers/newbs they have no place to learn the correct behaviour in the first place.


With hands on their hearts, how many of our current players can say they won't quit ?
To my experience, very few.


We demand something most of us aren't willing to give ourselves.



So unless we are ready to commit ourselves to the cause and in my point of view, actually punish the ones who doesn't follow the guidelines/rules of the community, we probably won't get anywhere. (Quality over quantity?)

[Sirbomber]

This has been an issue for a few years and nothing anyone's done has been able to change it.  It's just the way it is, and it's like this in every game.  It's human nature to not like losing, and a few words on a screen isn't going to change the way people think.

Suddenly, I remember this quote...

"It's too late for that.  I've been trying to talk sense into Nguyen for years, face to face.  What chance does some voice out of a box have?"

Anyways, you can form a group of people who never quit in games, but you're naive if you think that won't lead to a second group of the people you've exiled.

Wow, lots of relevant stuff in Eden 1 today.

He sighed and leaned back in his chair.  "You can see for yourself the different paths Eden and Plymouth have followed.  The split might have happened anyway, given enough time.  It's human nature to cluster into like groups."

"It's human nature for groups to go to war, too.  We should have seen it coming."

And the last thing we need is another split in the community, especially over such a petty issue as quitting in game.

The way I see it, if somebody quits before you can kill them, that's their way of saying you scared them into submission*, which is something to be proud of in my opinion.

* - Unless you broke the rules, in which case you have no right to complain about them quitting.

[Tellaris]

Yes, if theres one thing I learned in Psych class, is that people won't change unless they WANT to change.   As most people are resistant to change in the first place, its not likely to affect anything without causing yet another split.   To be perfectly honest, theres nothing we can do.   No other RTS community has been able to quash it (And most don't even try).   What is an option in other RTS communities, is often groups will form that idealize certain values... such as fighting to the bloody end.   That just isn't possible here, since this is such a small community.   As it currently stands, quitters are extremely prevalent.   As the quote basically said, no voice out of a box is going to change that.   Count it as a victory and move on.
Highlander also has a point.    Unless you are willing to get rid of the "bad" elements (which is what, 90% of this already puny community?) its not going to change.   I think such a drastic action will simply end what is left of the shred of people that still play this.

Of course, seeing whining piddling crap like this on the forums isn't going to help get more people here...   -Not ment as an insult to anyone in particular.

-Also, I'll be one to admit, sometimes I stay until the bloody end, sometimes I'm not in the mood to wait.   Depends on the day.   I try, but I can't always resist the urge to hit that quit button.

[Highlander]

Well, might be that my memory decieves me, but quitters weren't really a problem on WON as I remember it.

I'm sure most of you are familiar of the setup of WON, with several gaming rooms etc. What would happen if someone quit, was that the other gamer(s) in the game would make it very public notion that someone had quit the game, often chasing them around in the different rooms spreading the word. The ones being called quitters would often find themselves being frozen out, not allowed to join games. So as it were then, the whole community would turn against the one player quitting, some clans even keeping records of quitters and encouraged their members not to play those on the list.

So, for some of the notorious quitters, given a few chances, the only option they had where to change name.


The downside of this was of course that having someone calling you a quitter could indeed have consequences for you, even if you were innocent of the crime.


Might just be me playing in a "sheltered" community within WON (mostly against high skilled clan tagged people), but quitting at the time never struck me as a large problem, certainly nowhere near the level we have here.




Now before anyone starts calling me down for reminiscing about times gone and forgotten, YES I know this is not WON, but let's look at the facts. Since Tellaris began talking about psychology, I'm sure he can provide a more detailed explanation of the following should anyone want it. (Talking conditioning here btw, seems like we can boil it down to something this simple if we really want to)


WON:  
1) Player quits a game  --> 2) Being called a quitter/left out of game --> 3) Player cannot play game --> 4) Player changes his behavior (Usually) and is thus allowed to play again
1) unwanted behavior --> 2) conditioned reinforcer --> 3) strong negative reinforcement(removal of reward) --> organism changes behavior to get reward (be able to play)

OPU:
1) Player quits a game --> 2) being called a quitter --> 3) Player is still allowed to play
1) Unwanted behavior --> 2) small negative reinforcement --> 3) Reward


Been a while since I did this type of psychology, but the general outline is the quitting is the unwanted behavior. On WON this unwanted behavior in most cases was followed by a strong negative reinforcement - not being allowed to play. Thus to be able to play, you had to follow the rules.

Here on OPU we meet the same behavior,  sometimes people are called down for quitting, but we generally do not take a stand against it, so people still get to do what they want without feeling the consequences of their action. So people can happily continue to quit knowing it won't cause them any trouble whatsoever.
From a mere psychological view I guess it could even be argued we are promoting the quitting to some point..

[Tellaris]

Looks about right High.
You could argue that by failure to take a stance on quitters can even encourage it, but I never really got how THAT worked...   But we arn't doing anything to discourage it either.
The thing is, if you want it to change you actually need to take a stance, and ENFORCE it.   Unfortunately, with such a small community, and such a large amount of those people actually being quitters this might not be so great for us.
Some will easily and readily adapt to this.   Some won't.   And still some will just leave.   Someone else might even get the idea to create their own separate community.

I think the best solution would be to recreate something like the WON system.   Get people dependent on it.   Since we know OP2 does not always work over networks particularly well, and online can be a real pain, once people are dependent on it, they don't really know of any other way around this.   As such, this becomes easier to enforce.   However, as it is now, its easy for a group to split off and form their own community, since there is no centralized service that everyone would have to be dependent on.

[Freeza-CII]

I got it why dont we all just shut the f*** up and play op2 in our own way. I mean come on its  a god damn game.  To much damn drama and bulls*** for a game.  So what if some one quits or you get missile bombed or some one crashes the game or builds a huge damn fort in that southern base on ATW.  Its just a f***ing game Enjoy atleast that much.  You people need that Solid Victory that thing that says you beat them the killing of the CC.  I love to kill the CC i would like to kill the CC when I dont get to kill it it sucks But guess what If i can make some one quit I beat them.  There is your damn victory.  Buildings in the game are nothing but another statistic.  Its the player that controls them all that you beat.  So If they quit you beat them.  Mostly i dont give a s*** any more but all this ridiculous whining annoys me now.

Quiting to me is when some one just up and leaves in the middle of a game for no damn good reason.  Ill use arklon as a example and his almost OCD with surviver and swarm.  Having to have the right spot and only he can do this and that and if he doesnt get it just right or some one is in his way he quits.  Thats a quitter i wouldnt play with.  There are others but quitting because they got beat big deal.

Really what do you people want the admins to do start beating on people on irc because yall cant get along in the game?  Or start to punish people for quitting stacking missile spamming?  Aint going to happen.  But Ill tell you this.  Tellaris and Starfox both know that the channel will be made +m so there old lady bickering will go to pm or another channel regardless of who did what to who in the game.  Who does what in Irc is what we care about.

Op2 is a old game its community will eventually fade its a matter of time.  Enjoy this game while you can.

[Savant 231-A]

Op2 is a old game its community will eventually fade its a matter of time.  Enjoy this game while you can.

It is true. Can we all just get along, and play this game without bickering, and quitting?

[Hidiot]

I've a feeling none of the sides will step down.

It's up to each to make a choice: enforce not quitting (when you're dead anyway) and make a lot of players not play with them anymore, or just play the game with those who still play it and stop caring that they quit when they've lost. Quitting at that time means surrendering. Surrendering means accepting your loss.

If you like blowing up CC's, make yourselves a map full of enemy CC's and start blowing them.

[Arklon]

Yeah, quitting is bulls***. But people wasting time killing every last common ore mine and agridome is also bulls***; don't be surprised if I quit when someone does that to me.

Quiting to me is when some one just up and leaves in the middle of a game for no damn good reason. Ill use arklon as a example and his almost OCD with surviver and swarm. Having to have the right spot and only he can do this and that and if he doesnt get it just right or some one is in his way he quits. Thats a quitter i wouldnt play with. There are others but quitting because they got beat big deal.

Seems to me you want to start that argument between me and Sirbomber back up again. After all,
(18:07:19) (Freeza-CII) Wow Sirbomber is such a baby
(18:07:33) (Freeza-CII) he entertains me

[Sirbomber]

You know what? I don't have the energy to bicker over EMP Missile spam and all the other crap anymore.
Now we'll see if anyone notices my signature is gone...
Set your own individual rules before you start, since the only common rules we'll ever agree on is don't break AM/BM, don't kill your allies, and never remove your helmet* outside.

*Unless you're Axen Moon, and it's the final cutscene.

[Hooman]

Hmm.... I notice Sirbomber's signature is gone.

[Hidiot]

ow we'll see if anyone notices my signature is

Yes... it is rather obvious.


Missile spamming in multiplayer is mostly possible because the build time for it is about half or less than a normal colony or campaign game. Not fun, but it's plymouth... if you're Eden counter it by building MD's... If you're Plymouth... build at least one spaceport per spaceport groups the spammer has, +1 or more and spam him back in the right places. (If you're with another Plymouth ally, it will be easier.) Remember to keep your spaceports at a distance.

Although this somehow works in theory, in a real game... not so much.

The game allows for some things... can't the game be altered to do something about this?

(An interesting script that denies you building too close to an enemy, which is used in some other games, could work nicely) At least you get rid of GP an lab rushers...

Or, by convention, start with some 4 lynxes.

(Thought spillage again.)

[Sirbomber]

Or, by convention, start with some 4 lynxes.

That's just begging Plymouth to rush Eden with Microwaves.

[Freeza-CII]

I've a feeling none of the sides will step down.

sides lol Just play the game people f*** sides.

but eden rules

[Savant 231-A]

but eden rules

You had to say that, didn't you

[Sirbomber]

sides lol Just play the game people f*** sides.

Yes, Freeza, that will stop a flame war.

[Hidiot]

By sides I meant those who want to get rid of quitters, those who don't and those who don't care.

And I don't think that should start any flaming. He's somewhat right though.

[Quantum]

Are you guys done crying?

some ppl have a life and when they are in game and they have to quit at the moment they get the chance because they have other things to do...

  :angry:


GET OVER IT!

[Anima_Vex]

Heh. Seems that some things never change. I took a hiatus when all this started and it seems it continues to pop up every so often. Now...

I haven't played with you new guys (or with the old group) for quite a while, but it seems to me that the original issue was with people leaving when they really don't see any point to continue. To take up the original example, remember that, if you don't have any more Smelters and little resources, building a new one won't help.

At all. Especially if you can't repel your opponent's attack. Of course, if you choose to use those resources to build the units you need to attack, then you have another problem: Your resources WILL eventually run out.

In other words, it's a lose-lose situation with negligible chances of winning (unless you get lucky. How? Dunno). I admit that I've left games, but I have always done so under one of two conditions:

1) Zero chance of winning: You understand what this means, right? If you don't, look up the words. It means that you can't win, save a miracle help you. Those people that allow your opponents to rebuild, you're nice and all, but... we feel threatened every second of the way. I'll be the first to tell you that it's not pleasant.

2) Other commitments. Easy thing to understand: REAL LIFE > GAMES. We live in the real world, not in the game world. We don't all have the time to spend playing. I make it a habit to tell my opponents that "My life intrudes upon my game time once more" before leaving. Needless to say, IT HAPPENS!

Of course, there are people that leave for no reason! Those are the ones that spite you. Mean as they are, they're human, and that is their temptation. You have no other choice but to LIVE WITH IT, since it would be plain insane to threaten them in real life.

At any rate, those are my two cents.

Oh, and... Hey, y'all. Hope you've been well. I'll be trying to get into IRC soon.

[Freeza-CII]

Its simple Enjoy the game dont worry about some one quitting if they quit you win.  Ya i know they denied you the enjoyment of destroying the buildings but they ran away You win.

And You know if they are a quitter just dont play with them any more.

And yes I do agree that Real life issues can take problem for people it happens to me all the time when i play which is why i dont play that often.