Author Topic: Perimeter Defense  (Read 3941 times)

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« on: May 04, 2007, 08:48:23 AM »
The idea of the Perimeter Defense is a bunch of guns in fixed positions pointing in all directions on a fixed column.

Stats: Perimeter Defense
HP: 800
Armor: Heavy
FP: 16 guns (4 pointed S, 4 pointed East, 4 pointed West, and 4 pointed North)
4 weapons have the 150% of the power that a standard version of the gun selected has.
Each gun can turn 22.5 degrees in either direction for 360 degrees total
Light Range: Guard Post
Size: 2 by 2 squares
Common Ore: 1450
Rare Ore: 420
3rd Ore: N/A
Power: 25
Colonists: 0
Tube Connection: No
(If connected to a CC by a tube +10% FP)

This could be the Maesis version of a GP. Be advised that the Perimeter Defense is not an attachment it is an independent building! The previous post was closed due to a misunderstanding of the way this building was constructed!

Say this could also be good since the 4 weapons dishes on each side could fire at independent targets, it would lower the damage each vehicle takes but it could be effective against clusters of vehicles.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2007, 12:00:33 PM »
That is over kill GPs are only 1 barrel turrets and that is how they need to remain.

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2007, 08:12:16 AM »
Each set of 4 disks turns only 22.5 degrees and 4 dishes only add up to 150% of the FP you get out of a standard GP.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 03:06:19 PM »
IT needs to be a regular GP 1 barrel.  Not a totem pole of guns.

Offline Psudomorph

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 04:23:35 PM »
While I can definitely understand the lure of placing more and more guns on a guard post, the thought makes me uneasy for some reason. I think it might be that I'm seeing a slippery slope. I'm afraid that if structures end up being too powerful, we would effectively end up in an arms race with ourselves, trying to maintain game balance with increasingly more powerful units. In my opinion it is better to avoid that slope entirely.

Besides which, I feel that the gameplay of Outpost 2 was meant to focus on effectively managing multiple units with limited abilities. If we start giving one guardpost the offensive capability of two or more, then I think it takes away some of the coordination required to manage the colony, and hence some of the fun from the game.

At the far end of that road you would end up with a Civilization-like situation, in which all fixed structures are contained in a one-tile "city", and you issue a single command to build defenses around the entire city at once.

As an argument from a "realism" point of view, generally the more complex something is, the more fragile it is. Take for example a gun in development by the US military; It is the most reliable gun ever built because it has few to no moving parts, and thus very little opportunity to break or jam. The simpler and more straightforward something is, the more reliable it will be, which is invaluable during combat.

In a traditional Outpost 2 Guardpost, the entire structure essentially rotates to face the enemy unit, and a fixed turret fires at it. Not counting the systems in the turret itself, this is a total of one moving part, with motors driven by some simple targeting information fed directly from the CC, or possibly a simple computer if the CC is not connected. By contrast, a guardpost with 16 independent turrets, 4 to a side, would be a nightmare from a logistical standpoint.

-It would require sophisticated targeting software to run all the turrets, and the more complicated a piece of software is, the more difficult it is to debug, and the more likely it is to develop glitches/abnormalities under stress.

-Would each turret be completely independent? Would you be able to pack that much redundant systemry into 4 tiles? Maybe there are shared systems, like a central grenade feeder for all the Rocket Launchers or something, but I don't even want to try to imagine the mechanics behind something like that, or how easily their functioning could be disrupted. At the very least, if a single shared system goes down, the whole post does.

-Some sort of complex system of moving armor plates would be needed in order to keep the moving turrets from leaving gaps in the main structure. Once again, more potential for something to break down or jam.

-Guard posts explode when destroyed. What happens if a single turret in this post is destroyed? Does the whole structure go with it?

Finally, what is the point of having 4 turrets on each side. There are really very few situations when a single turret will be attacked from all directions. The original guardpost can already rotate, so it might as well rotate 360 degrees as 90 or 180, but would it be worthwhile to build a guardpost with up to 12 weapons that you knew had very little chance of ever facing towards an enemy?

The only advantage I can see to this is the fact that you could fit more turrets into a smaller space, but surely there are better/more efficient ways to do that?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 04:26:16 PM by Psudomorph »

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2007, 08:41:49 AM »
Argggg........ Each turret has the rate of fire of 1 weapon of that type but the damage is decreased..... But the set of 4 turrets is equal to 150% of that of 1 standard gun....... It can track individual units and the turrets are inside balls that are fitted into the turret, kind of like a bone socket......... The issue with the arming system is simple since this turrets uses a series of smaller guns allowing each weapon to have an independent loading and firing system... HOWEVER the power is not independent to each set........ This weapon is useful in the crossroads map where you can put this in the middle where it will be attacked from 3 directions while being able to also cover any units that get passed and start into your pass.

Hey it's the perfect anti-arachnid weapons system!
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2007, 07:53:03 PM »
No Listen to me IT needs to stay a One Barrel Turret not a stack of guns not a Double barrel turret Just one barrel.

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2007, 08:22:55 AM »
...................................... UMMMMMMMMMMM................... Very Well.
Statistical reset engadged

Stats: Perimeter Defense: Maesis
HP: 800
Armor: Heavy
FP: 1 Gun +20% FP: Setup with a single enhanced gun turret
Rotation: 360 degrees
Light Range: Guard Post
Size: 1 by 1 square(s)
Common Ore: 1450
Rare Ore: 420
3rd Ore: N/A
Power: 20
Colonists: 0
Tube Connection: No
(If connected to a CC by a tube +10% FP)

The next generation of GP............ How is this?
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2007, 10:39:07 AM »
I dont know about all these FP stats.  enhancements are handled by research.  

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 08:12:22 AM »
This could be the next generation of GP because it can take and send more power to it's weapons systems. (More research required).
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 06:52:48 PM »
no the GPs are already powerful enough and they do there job if set up right.

Offline Highlander

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2007, 02:08:38 AM »
Currently Eden's GP's are strong enough.. Plymouths weapons doesn't do very well as GP's..
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Offline zanco

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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2007, 11:18:19 AM »
Truth to be told, I don't really like this idea. It is all about uber weapon, which we should avoid.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2007, 01:52:16 PM »
Plymouth may lack in there gp power but they have a pretty good defensive weapons called the EMP missile.

Offline Combine Crusier

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 01:44:32 PM »
The EMP missile is toast and useless when Eden gets their hands on a meteor defense network. And also this would provide an anti-tiger GP or at least a tiger resistant GP. Besides it requires more power so you have more FP per GP thus you don't need as many.
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Offline Freeza-CII

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2007, 04:19:25 PM »
Meteor defs are not Mobile and never will be there for the EMP missiles is a great Defensive weapons.

The GPs are just fine we dont need a ANTI Life Gun

Offline Arklon

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2007, 04:27:14 PM »
Quote
Meteor defs are not Mobile and never will be there for the EMP missiles is a great Defensive weapons.
EMP missiles are too good, at least when you have multiple spaceports. Me and Betaray had a game against Fox a while back, and even with stacked (mass traded to get around the unit limit) tigers, 3 spaceports constantly launching missiles made it take forever for the army to get to his base. I don't think Fox exactly had the best rare, either. The only thing you can do about them is build meteor defenses everywhere, which is highly impractical. But having mobile meteor defenses could just make EMP missiles useless. No matter how you try to balance it and keep their defensive role, they're either overpowered or useless for defense. Maybe if they took much longer to land, possibly have a larger radius, and make them detonate in the air if they're shot down by a meteor defense, therefore making it primarily making it an offensive weapon...
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 04:33:55 PM by Arklon »

Offline zanco

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Perimeter Defense
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2007, 06:38:26 PM »
Okay, we had a nice talk, most of us disagree with the idea. Nice arguments were posted to show how unrealistic, needless, balance-breaking this weapon could be.
Topic Closed.

Thank you for posting.
if anyone finds and communicate to us that which thus far has eluded our efforts, great will be our gratitude.
          Jakob Bernouilli

"Zanco`, n00b o' The Flares"