BLah, are ppl this bad at reading?
I dont care if this thread is old i cant sit here and read this the way it is without getting angry at all these inaccurracies. How could a devoted fansite leave such inaccuracies in its own story... Especially one that likes to remind everyone how important it is in keeping things like expansions and mods "in the spirit of the story" or logical to the story line. According to this, parts of the story line have been destroyed/butchered/or just plain thought up in an effort to say who you personally liked (who won). though since this is alittle old id really suggest that ppl reread these prior posts first to understand what im saying as its really long.
from Sir Bomber
How about you play the Eden campaign and read the story? Then maybe you'll learn that Plymouth raided Eden, kidnapped Eden scientists, and stole Eden technology after Eden had tried to negotiate a peace treay between the two Colonies. Now who's evil?
And lets not forget that as a condition of their nice treaty, Plymouth must hand over their gene bank by placing it in some marked non strategic location so that when edens forces attack them they know where it is (essentially a treaty wherein one side agrees to be attacked and then have the source of all their courage/hope/strength etc taken).... Eden's so nice. And furthermore in the plymouth storyline, Eden is at this point run by Echo and the masters and their only intention is to destroy the one remaining gene bank. you dont remember that guy Eden drops off in a blitz on Plymouth. the one that kills 2 ppl on his way to destroy the gene bank and gets caught by emma then presented at edens peaceful negotiation? Even moreso, in the actual game mission your objective as plymouth is to take starship pieces and capture some scientists. thats all. But as high and mighty Eden your objective is to steal the gene bank, capture some scientists, and then on top of that, destroy every single advance lab and then go on to destroy Plymouths spaceport, but thats justified becuase Eden surely kindly waited for all the ppl working in them to leave. Hey Plymouth is already behind in the space race, so the idea was to really piss off Plymouth... BTW this might just be why Plymouth launches their all out attacks on Eden in the last Eden mission, cause idk maybe their completely screwed now and they need to capture yours. For the record, here is what the Eden novella states of Plymouths raid that sir bomber so mentioned.
Retribution had come swift and hard for the actions of Jacque Barre, "Eden Spy." Under cover of darkness, a Plymouth convoy had sliced through Eden's defenses, ignored choice strategic targets, and made a lightning raid on the labs researching starship technology. An attempt to remove salvage from the original starship, Conestoga, had been repelled thanks to courageous action by the Volunteer Guard, but three scientists were missing and presumed captured.
note how Plymouth deviously decimated Edens colony to get to the lab... destorying the nursery and cutting off the residences from the agridomes, burning all the evac transports in the way *ok now in the Eden novella I realize it was actually the masters who had taken damaged units and raided plymouth just at the negotiations but, plymouth doesnt know that and they believe it was Eden.
and on the general topic of how benevolent the "real" Eden is, according to the Eden novella, the original OLD council i.e. not the masters, ran the gulag. Borges, though a master, was sent there becuase of his association with the masters. In fact the entire reason the masters gained ground in the first place in the Eden story is because the normal eden ppl found out about the councils gulag after Axen was rescued. At this point Eden ppl cant trust their council, and their last elder is in stasis. but thankfully in steps this new masters group that also really hates the old council. if you really dont believe that then try to remember that Axen got his "residence reassignment orders" from a letter sent to him by the council and then he went to protest to the council, and obviously failed.
from sir bomber
How can you say that Eden started the war, when Plymouth is the rebel colony? Neither colony is "peace loving" or "war hungry". But again, all you play is the Plymouth campaign and ignore the Eden campaign. Plymouth attacks Eden more than Eden attacks Plymouth.
This is such an important aspect to the game and underline story! how did you get this wrong. If you cant remember anything else in this post just remember this. It changes the entire perspective of the story. According to the Eden novella which you can read in game, and obviously not from plymouths campaign. Plymouth was purposefully created by the Elders (all of them) did you miss the part where (in the very first chapter)
She smiled slightly. "As though you and I don't know a thing or two about misinformation. Where did we go wrong, Axen?" He leaned his head down and rubbed his brow, unable to face her. This had been his idea initially. "You saw the computer projections. All the Elders did. Two independent colonies had a much greater probability of survival than one." "We could have told the people..." "Not and have the colonies be truly independent. Creating a political rift seemed like the best way." She nodded. "And now you see where it's brought us?" He sighed and leaned back in his chair. "You can see for yourself the different paths Eden and Plymouth have followed. The split might have happened anyway, given enough time. It's human nature to cluster into like groups." "It's human nature for groups to go to war, too. We should have seen it coming." "There isn't a war yet, Emma. Plymouth doesn't even have weapons."
The fact that Axen and Emma and all the elders purposely caused the split is seen and hinted at all throughout both novellas. Axen and Emma are the only two elders left and therefore the only two who know the real reason why they split, and also why they carry such a heavy burden in the story. In their mind since they are responsible for spliting the colony they are also now responsible for this war and all the deaths and so on and so on. see for instance the part where it says "The split might have happened anyway, given enough time". id also like to stress how this is HIS idea, Axen, who isnt plymouth if i can remember correctly. note that this also should settle the argument over who got weapons first and how the "rebel" plymouth conveniently has all the structures/vehicles/food/minerals that it needs when they seperate.
if you need more proof......
We've come full-circle. Who knew it would lead to this? Certainly not he. Certainly not his fellow Elders when they decided that the colony's best chance for survival was to split in two.
or even
Axen grunted and walked out the door. It wasn't that he thought Panati was up to anything, it was just that the graffiti he kept spotting had raised his paranoia level. The last time he'd seen anything like it was during the political schism that had created Plymouth, and during that revolution, it had been he and his fellow Elders doing the painting.
from sir bomber
Actually, it is the EDEN story in which the Eden and Plymouth survivors band together. The Plymouth ending mentions nothing of the sort, and we are in fact led to believe the war is still being fought on New Terra as Axen has to manually take control of Plymouth's defenses before they get owned by Eden.
First off Axen willfully chooses to stay behind in both stories. Axen isnt controlling the defenses either, Kraft is. Secondly, your statement is just completely made up ("I LIEK IT BETUR LOL" doesn't make it the real story.) Plymouth and Eden did infact band together in Plymouth's storyline. The reason all of Plymouth left and some of Eden got left behind was not becuase Plymouth was evil but, get this, according to the novella, the savant computers created their magical link and devised a way to increase the starships capacity. So much so infact that not just does all of plymouths citizens board the ship, but they even offered some space to the battered remains of Axens forces who just happen to be fighting off the masters so Plymouth can get away (ps this is the part where Plymouth and Eden band together in Plymouths storyline). and, this comes long after Plymouth had taken Eden's children. if plymouth was evil they wouldnt have offered any space to the remaining eden units or have even taken edens children in the first place. hel the spaceport was in danger simply becuase plymouth had to wait for the battered eden troops to reach them and since they were behind the masters.......... looks to me like plymouth risked everything to save a few more lives. Definitely evil ppl. maybe though plymouth would have offered the space anyway but if you read the storyline then youd know that the delta v hadnt been created when plymouth went to take edens children.
from the Plymouth novella
Dr. Quigley stepped forward. "The added delta-V will increase the ship's payload enough to accommodate the Eden children without displacing any adults.
As you can see, those greedy self-centered Plymouth ppl had originally intended to take Eden's children to space in place of some of their own adults... now they can all go. If you forgot, the delta V was a result of the link frost created with savants.
from the Plymouth novella
For a moment the consciousness known as the Link grew a million-fold in size and power, taking into itself every part of every entity that contributed to it. The Link focused it resources on the problem of ion drives. The problem melted like ice before a flame, and a solution was revealed.
Hey on the topic of children, Eden had always had the intention to take plymouths children to space, just like those evil Plymouth ppl intended to take edens children...
or did they?
from the Eden novella
"What is it?" "A minor modification of your starship's ion engines to improve the efficiency. It should increase your payload capacity by ten to fifteen percent with no additional fuel." Axen was surprised in spite of himself. "Why are you giving us this, Emma? Why squander your resources on something you had no way to apply?" She chuckled. "Because I have a use for that extra payload, Axen. I'm sending you some passengers."
ya that looks to me like those vulnerable children were Edens top priority... no it looks more like plymouth had to barter for their children's lives. lets not forget (or maybe try to remember) who finished their spaceship first.
On the other hand, In Eden's novella Eden did have a couple "human factors" to consider who or who didnt leave on the spaceship. In fact this makes the eden ending more asinine then Plymouths. Essentially the end story for eden goes like this.....
Eden male 1 "uh dam i wasnt important enough to get to live and there wasnt enough space for everyone in our story(eventhough were more technogically advandced).
Eden male 2 "maybe we could join up with plymouth and use their partially created starship and leave with them..."
Eden male 3 "ya thats a great idea, theyll like it too. its not like we really hated them or destroyed any hope they had of leaving on their own..."
Emma Burke "oh now that you've screwed everyone, you want to cooperate and work as a team. Fine, we'll be the BETTER people and work with you..."
not that i have anything against sir bomber, but since his post was a summary and apparently meant to correct everyone about everything, i just wanted to make sure that he correctly corrected them. and if your going to be a insultive-smartass know it all, then try to be correct about it.
BTW ive played both sides
from Nightmare24148
The Eden Gene Bank is traded for more starship stuff(If I remember correctly)
no they dont it gets destroyed in both story lines.
from Nightmare24148
And don't forget Plymouth is the one who converted their RLV program into ballistic missiles...
plymouth never had an RLV program they were using SULV hulls and crashing them back into new terra. thats also why you cant make an emp missile and sulv at the same time in game on one spaceport.
from Edens novella
She glanced at the Gene Bank. "It's yours, but I warn you, you won't be able to keep it without a fight. Plymouth was already planning an all-out attack on Eden to capture your launch facility and, in turn, your starship. They've started converting our launch vehicles into makeshift EMP missiles, that's how desperate they are."
from Prometheus
If there were enough resources for two starships then why waste time and precious resources building weapons? The simple truth is that only one side made it out, taking the children of the the losing colony with them for humanitarian reasons.
the only reason both sides fought with each other is becuase there was only one gene bank. no sense in a starship without it. Though behind Plymouth couldnt trust it to Eden as they destroyed the first one, and though ahead, Eden wasnt going to leave the planet without it. Ask yourself this. If eden had a gene bank and eden was still ahead, why would they have bothered with Plymouth at all? hel the first time eden opens an official line to Plymouth is when they realize they have the only gene bank left in existence. the reason they say there isnt enough resources for two star ship programs is because so many resources had to be diverted to armys to fight each other (for instance have you ever tried adding the amount of ore it takes to just build the mission required number of units and then comparing that to the total cost of the space ship?) not to mention having to make even more units on harder difficulties.. and all the repairs. etc.
from Mcshay
Have you read the Plymouth novella? It explains how the Savants' biological brains were incorporated into the blight, thus making the blight a rapid computing medium. The blight itself would not be smart, but the entity created by the combination of all of the Savants would be theoretically capable of controlling units (as seen in the novella).
The first part follows the novellas but the blight does not take control of vehicles. If your refering to taking control of units as seen in the novella, for instance the eden turrets and vehicles in mission 4, they are not controlled by the blight. the vehicles used biological components in their hardware/software in addition to non biological components. what the blight did was dissolve all of the biological crap and leave everything else. this is from the eden novella
Axen continued, "What we're looking at here isn't a boptronic system anymore, it's an optronic system. From what you've told me, the protein computer cores of these units are gone. It's as though they've been given a skillful and selective lobotomy." Jensen looked at him. "You think they're dangerous?" "Based on what you've shown me, I know they are. The combat units are, anyway, and there may not be anything else left operational by the time you get there. These units have lost their higher command functions, their ability to understand and respond to commands, and to recognize other units, friend or foe. What's left are hard-wired autonomous functions: move, steer, avoid, attack, patrol. My guess is they'll fire at anything that moves within range of them. Or, if erosion of plastic insulation is also causing shorts in their electronics, they could be totally unpredictable, capable of doing almost anything."
Random story facts (these come from the novella): eden is ahead in both novellas, and in fact they were always able to leave earlier. the reason they stayed behind was so that they could get the gene bank. the good eden being axen and the gang tried to do everything the right peaceful way but kept getting screwed by the masters and the old council/diplomats. plymouth didnt know this in edens storyline hence why they didnt work together. In fact both Axen and Emma were really the only good people in a sense that all either of them cared about was humanity's survival. (thats also why they initially created the Eden plymouth schism *see above) in Edens story Emma allows axen to take the gene bank at the end because she has realized in that story that eden will escape and plymouth would not. in Plymouths story Axen leads Edens remaining forces and chases after/fights off the masters so that Plymouth can launch their ppl and continue humanity becuase he realizes that plymouth will escape. there are also earlier less dramatic instances within the respective storylines.
Ok finally i think thats most of the major issues/confusions i saw posted here that came from some other storyline and this reply is probably too large anyway.
Personally, regardless of which side played, i believe both sides do escape. Two major reasons for this. first, is from one of the final plymouth chapters. this is referring to Edens civil war
The urgency was gone now. With Eden destroyed, there was no outside threat other than the Blight, and by itself, that threat was easily manageable in the short-term. They could relocate the colony, finish the starship at their leisure, escape New Terra with time to spare.
on a side note This more than anything illustrates that it was not the blight that was the major concern. Defending against eden was more taxing than running from the blight. or you could look at this as meaning Plymouth was more afraid of Eden than the blight or so on etc.
the second reason i say everyone escapes is becuase of the savants. if a couple of savants can link and think of an otherwise impossible solution in mere seconds (ion drive), then logically what would a planet of them be capable of? in plymouths end frost gets shot back to terra on the skydock and have a link to the starship. its easy enough to see that that link and thought could be used to assist the remaining ppl. hell with the legendary processing power of savants (trillion fold) i wouldnt be surprised if the ppl left behind made a far superior spaceship. on the otherhand in edens end neither side had been as severly destroyed since no masters civil war and invasion of plymouth. it even says at the end that theres a convoy of survivors from both plymouth and eden. Theres plenty of time, and they can still use the partially completed starship. At the end of the game before Plymouth captures the RLV all they have left to launch is the phoenix module and then the cargos and ppl.
And lastly what do you mean by the word win? if you mean escape new terra first like a space race, then i say Eden was supposed to win. they could have left at any time but had stayed on terra to get the gene bank.
