Mission 3 discussion

[Eddy-B]

Although mission 2 is in full beta, today i've started to set up the projectfiles for mission 3. You'll be getting some more info on this soon.

As for mission 1 & 2: i've done some minor updates to both of them, and the novella to go with those 2 missions should be ready to be released soon also.
I would still urge all beta-testers not to spread ANY of the beta-files (this includes mission briefings, novella & maps), since there might still be updates & bugfixes; plus as i've mentioned before.. i want to release a bunch of missions at once, but i think waiting until i've completed mission 12 will take too long - it's taking about a month for those first 2 missions, and i can speed it up a little bit now, since i had to work out much of the ai structures during this period also, i'm looking at a possible 4 months before completion of the missions.
On the other hand: if i release a handful of missions with an open-end story, people might loose interrest in it before the next release.

For now: have fun testing mission 2; as of now, no one has yet actually finished it, not even me.. :lol:, but that's mainly been caused by the nasty bugs the early beta version had; most of them should be corrected by now.

[Eddy-B]

no one has yet actually finished it, not even me..

I did complete the mission once now on medium level. This would suggest is is playable until the end. I had no crashes anymore, and played well over timemark 800. If anybody still can find a crash or a game-freeze, please let me know. If you are able to re-create the crash from a saved game, it would help a lot if you can send me the saved game and tell me what your actions were, and when it will crash/freeze.

[Leviathan]

I need to have a good go at finishing the mission and helping you to tweek them.

[Eddy-B]

Alpha-testing on mission 3 is progressing slowly. At this time i'll need to start contacting some of the beta-testers to be able to set a timespan for the mission. This means i'll need the fastest building/researching player available - and prolly also the slowest - to set the timespan for triggers on the hard & easy levels.

After that has been done, AI programming will commence.

[Leviathan]

Eddy-B you know where to find me.

[Eddy-B]

Thanks to Levi that went well (and fast)!  

AI designing for this mission has started this evening. It won't be that much interactive, since the player will be too consumed with the mission objectives and staying alive to really attack the enemy.
The AI will however perform attack runs on the player - otherwise it would be a dull mission, and i dont want that to be.

[Eddy-B]

Setting up the AI base is done .. now the real work starts!  <_<

I've done a lot of coding tonite, digging real deep into the op2 game engine.. i found out a lot of things that make it possible to rewrite missions 1 & 2 to create a better and more natural AI on those missions. Further missions will include my newly developed code to keep it looking realistic.
As a result i'll be closing the beta-download site for now, so i can update my older missions, and have a new setup ready for those beta-testers prolly in a couple days (if i can spare the time).
 

[Leviathan]

Sounds good!

As im off for two weeks, once the new missions are done, ill play thru them.

[Eddy-B]

I've made great progress in understanding the Outpost Game Engine in-game commands. The mission itself has not seen many updates for the past 2 days, but i'm going to update all 3 missions with what i found out, hoping some people will notice something different about this campaign, as compared to the original  

As soon as i've done rewriting the first 2 missions, they will again go into beta, and at that time i will inform you guys here.

[Eddy-B]

Since it's been a while since my last update on this forum, here's some data:
Mission 3 AI coding is going well - lots of alpha-testing going on now, to perfect the AI. Also, because there are 2 AI's in this mission (like in mis2) it'll take a while to have them work correctly together. Also there is some random behaviour to the mission AI this time, while the last AI in mission2 has a definate (enforced) outcome, this one doesn't. So this means i need to create an adaptive AI, which brings new exciting coding problems that i need to work with. Add to that the fact i found another "bug" in OP2, when it comes to using AI functionality, it all takes a bit longer then expected.

Good news is: since i've worked a lot on AI lately, new missions will probably be done faster, because of my increasing understanding about how to do things in OP2-ways. Also, i've added more functionality to OP2 (see the coding forum) that will help in creating a more 'human' touch to the AI instead of the terribly faked AI of the original.

I've got updated images for missions 1 & 2, and also for mission 3. Ideas for mission 4 are abundant, and we've already cooked up some more ideas that can be used in later missions. As for "the end": i still don't know where we will take this, but i believe you guys, as players can guide me the way you want it to be. I still am the one to make the final decision, for i am the lead programmer and sorta the 'director' and 'producer' as well, i guess..


As soon as most bugs have been worked out, i'll contact the beta-team again for testing, and then it's just waiting for mission 4 to be done, until i will release a first version of Outpost : Renegades. We'll probably plan this to coincide with an OPU reunion.

[Eddy-B]

I've been out of it for some time, but i stink i'm going to pick up the pace again. Still hung up on mission 3 AI coding, since it needs a LOT of that (i got 2 AI's fighting each other, and getting it tuned down right has been a hassle, and it's time-consuming to check how the AI does everytime...).

Think it's better to move onto mission 4 for now; set it up, get it going, and then later return to finish mis3 AI -maybe with some help of the beta-testers, and/or some other coder(s)-

Then the next step is to create a new setup to install Outpost : Renegades missions 1~4 plus some extra's.  If anyone want to contribute something, let me know. Many hands make light work. I also want other music to go with Renegades. If we all can agree on something, it'll be cool, otherwise i'll go with some music that i got.  

[Shuffles]

I know it's been a while since I was here, but I've been keeping an eye out here.  Anyways, Eddy, Let me know when you need mission 3 & 4 pics so I can do them.  I haven't forgotten!

[Leviathan]

Id say come up with a few differet ideas when you can and he can chose the best and or say what needs changing.

[Eddy-B]

Id say come up with a few differet ideas when you can and he can chose the best and or say what needs changing.

Good point!

Let me know when you need mission 3 & 4 pics so I can do them

That would be great. I'll pm you the details for mission 3 asap.

I haven't forgotten!

 i was just thinking about contacting you again this past weekend

> I've started on mission 4 coding (base & unit setup mainly) and mission 3 is on hold for now. Mission 4 has a less elaborate AI, so i'd figure to get that one going first, THEN return to mission 3.

The first official release will include all 4 missions.
Keep u guys posted.

(thanx for the feedback, levi)

[Eddy-B]

After a lot of testing and crashes, i've finally worked out my trigger system that i needed for mission 3 to work. Since i've already started mission 4 coding (base & unit placement), i'll finish mission 3 later.
But i'm happy i got this problem off my chest. This is also a step forward when it comes to my event system i've promised to create for outpost AI-coding

So far, my AI code is not open source { it will be partially released, when im satisfied with the code }, but the dll and lib/header necessary for compiling will be release any time soon. I'm currently working on version 1.1 of the op2extra library that extends the Unit class to include some more advanced funtionality.

I've also implemented the result of the color mapping polls, and made plymouth council RED (and the Renegades Yellow -for now)

[Eddy-B]

I picked up where i left. I need to implement some changes i made during coding of mission 4. These changes will also effect missions 1 & 2, as well as this mission.
Also, a lot of new things i learned in working with mission 4 (a unit-mission), that i can use in developing a better AI for this one.

For now, it's just some getting used to this mission codework, and see where i left it; specially since i just had a 2 week vacation with no coding at all.

[Eddy-B]

Although mission 2 is in full beta, today i've started to set up the projectfiles for mission 3. You'll be getting some more info on this soon.

Okay, so it's been half a year...
well, i'm glad to inform everyone the AI for mission 3 seems to be working well now. Yesterday, i had it play by itself until over mark 1000 without a problem. I doubt it'll take that long to finish the mission.

Now only the player conditions need to be updated to hook in on the AI code, since that hasn't been done yet. But that won't take as long as the AI did. Again.. i've learned a lot about AI coding during this past week. I've updated the "repair AI" which now will repair any damaged building, and doing it correctly. Next step would be to start repairing vehicles with spiders/repveh and by using garages, although i didn't even looked into that yet.

It does look like i'm going to make my estimated "deadline" of september after all, for release of the first Renegades-set. This reminds me: i have to really get started on a webpage for it, and both the graphics and sound routines need to be updated, specially since sound still crashes op2 sometimes.

I'll be opening mission 3 for beta soon! If you want to be on the beta-team; you know the drill: http://beta.eddy-b.com
 

[Eddy-B]

Mission 3 has been tested (almost) around the clock, and i've added a lot more AI stuff to it. I did find several bugs along the way, but it seems most of them are history now.

I been fine-tuning the mission AI's since they are such a big part of this mission; everything depends on the AI bases and how they develop. This is going to be a long-play mission and, as with all my missions, requires the player to first take a global look at the mission play, then restart the mission and do it right. I doubt ANYone can make this one work on the first go!

Needless to say, this one will need to be tested a lot of times, to see if it actually works, and doesn't crash.

[Eddy-B]

After the new OP2Event code was finished, i resumed working on mission3 again. I have to say, all my (random) crashes are gone and the game runs smoothly
The AI battle has been completed and i am now coding the last few bits of it to have it interact with the human player.  Once that is done, it'll be open for beta!

While doing the mission3 beta, i'll update mission 4, and get everything ready for first release. Some additional parts of those first 4 missions are far from done still, but i hope to get the people working on those to finish their tasks within this week. Then i can still make my september dead-line    .. nah - i'm kidding myself!

So anyway: new BETA testers: sign up > renegades@eddy-b.com?subject=BETA and send me your nickname, real name, and preferred user/pass for beta-login.

[Eddy-B]

Mission 3 testing has ended.
I've added some more modifications, and extended its AI a bit.

That makes 3 complete missions. On with re-testing mission 4. This shouldn't take more than a few days.

[Leviathan]

I would like to be involved in this testing, im not here at the weekend so it will havta be before that.

Great work

[Eddy-B]

Seems like you've tested mission 4 already, so i'll let you test it again.
There's no beta site atm, but i'll make sure u get the correct file(s)

Everyone else has to wait until release

[Ezekel]

cool, you've almost done mission 4 now.

thats the nice thing about being away - so much nice things when you come back for a visit.

cya laters