Economy

[Stormy]

This is referring to the question in the "Info Released" topic about OP3 having an Economy. What do you think?


Edit: Ok so basically a structure for this, just a morale booster, like Plymouth's Forum. Trade would trade ore etc between colonies? It would also increase morale... people trading to get new things.

[Freeza-CII]

I see mostly the op2 trade system and the some thing like the trade system from AOE2.  Trade resource for resources great for allies and dictators.  As for a inner colony thing i guess you would have to please the masses with orgies and beer LOL.  Any way the inner colony type stuff would just me a morale booster or some kind of production booster when build or made.

[TH300]

Trade as a morale booster and trade as a mean to transfer ownership of a vehicle are ok and also realistic. Nevertheless, trade as a mean to convert commen ore/metal to rare or vice versa isn't. In AoE it is realistic, because merchants are assumed to be everywhere and get the ressources from anywhere - where would a merchant in Outpost3 get metals? The colonys are still very much isolated and the planet isn't mass-populated.

[Stormy]

The reason ore is traded is for ALLIES to help one another....

But you might be right...

The economy is more of the morale and things that come from it.

[Freeza-CII]

To trade with other colonies and not hoard all to them selfs but better then transfering cargo trucks with stuff in them just a set of buildings that can send and recieve stuff from other colonies

[BlackBox]

I don't think a full blown economy is really necessary. A simple trade system like OP2 has would work great.

But with a few additions like:

-- able to trade Ore
-- able to trade Colonists
-- maybe trade spaceships or satellites/starship modules?

[Leviathan]

id rather go for a simpler and more appliyed to the game trade system than the other, as long as its realistic.

[Stormy]

I don't think a full blown economy is really necessary. A simple trade system like OP2 has would work great.

But with a few additions like:

-- able to trade Ore
-- able to trade Colonists
-- maybe trade spaceships or satellites/starship modules?

Lol, This is just what happened to leeor, that's exactly what I was trying to say... But I couldn't really put it into words.    

[coolzero]

yeah i agree cous the word Economy holds a lot mroe then just some trading etc ... and we dont need it. but i slight boost in morale isnt a bad idea if you trade things

[TH300]

To trade with other colonies and not hoard all to them selfs but better then transfering cargo trucks with stuff in them just a set of buildings that can send and recieve stuff from other colonies

Transfering it without cargo-trucks... sounds good. Its a pain in op2 to load ore/metals into cargo-trucks before it can be traded.
Sending it through tubes is not a good solution when colonies are far away from each other. We could still just transfer the ressources (without trucks/tubes), but that would make most of the trading process invisible and I think thats not good either.

My suggestion: vehicle should be tradeable (as in op2). Ressources should only be directly tradeable if colonies are connected by tubes.
To trade Colonists without a tube connection Evacuation transports should be loadable with Colonists somehow.

[Stormy]

Hmm ok maybe a new structure? Or have loading docks at all the residences to load colonists.

2ndly, The tube system will allow transfering of people etc. if the Players are allied with each other.

Sound good?

[BlackBox]

Oh yeah Tubes. It should be possible to 'share' CCs and other resources with allied bases. For example if your CC dies the allie's CC can help keep your base running.

[Stormy]

Adding on to Hacker's post:

Your colonists (the ones who's CC died) would go to the allie's colony so that they don't die..  You couldn't really do much unless they provided for your colony; IE they would have to build residences for both colonies to share, more ore storage, But the only structures that are connected to the tube leading to the surviving colony may 'send' people. If the ones that aren't connected b/c the  CC blew up get connected again, then they move to the other colony.

Maybe Quote this and 'revise' it as a group?

[TH300]

Your post doesn't make sense to me stormy. Can you clarify it?

What comes to my mind about this:
- allied CC's can probably be used to control allied structures, so that if player1 builds an Agridome that is only connected to a CC from player2 who is allied with player1 the Agridome is operational.
- If a structure is no longer connected to any CC it is not operational
- a player can probably take over structures of another colony if these structures are not connected to a CC that belongs to the other Colony or one of its allieys.


We have to decide which ways of "colonist-transportation" shall be possible. (ie. how they come from one place on a planet to another place on the planet)
In Outpost2 they can just get to any CC-connected structure on the map, no tube connection needed nor an Evac-transport. Evac-transpors are only needed in the campaigns to move over great distances.
The colonist-transportation-system will effect the ways colonists can be traded.

[leeor_net]

We could always add the monorail system from Outpost 1. That would be fun... :-)

As far as an economy, I'm not sure if was suggested already but the whole commerce bit through trading could be boosted (e.g., lesser taxes/expenses/whatever). Kinda like in AOE2 where you can do research

But I guess that means you'd have to designate certain artery tubes to be 'commerce' sections....

Wow... Age of Empires, Outpost 2 and SimCity all rolled into one! What a game!

[HaXtOr]

can you sell colonitst to your enimie as slaves or better yet steal colonists from your opponent and make them slaves? Or even better hold them hostange killing one every 2 clicks

[leeor_net]

Well, I guess that's a possibility for a MOD.

I can see it now: Outpost 3: Slave Traders -- the new expansion pack from neptuneTECH! Steal your enemy's people, line them up in front of your GP's and wait 'til they move, make the clean the inner chambers of the tokomak with a sponge and a tablespoon of salt!

[TH300]

I can see it now: Outpost 3: Slave Traders -- the new expansion pack from neptuneTECH! Steal your enemy's people, line them up in front of your GP's and wait 'til they move, make the clean the inner chambers of the tokomak with a sponge and a tablespoon of salt!

Yea, a possibility for a MOD, not for the plain game.

As far as an economy, I'm not sure if was suggested already but the whole commerce bit through trading could be boosted (e.g., lesser taxes/expenses/whatever). Kinda like in AOE2 where you can do research

Great idea.

The commerce in the tubes...
The tubes in Op2 where used so intensivly for one reason: there where not enough residences. And thats not at all something the colonists like, because it makes morale go down.
I'd rather like to see some new buildings for economy (otherwise we could just put a sf in a tube or a smelter, probably have a whole base of tubes and nothing else :ph34r:).

[Stormy]

Oh yeah Tubes. It should be possible to 'share' CCs and other resources with allied bases. For example if your CC dies the allie's CC can help keep your base running.

Clarifying My post:

Basically your people would move to your ally's CC to manage your colony using their CC, However, the CC won't run at 'full' capacity because it is being used by 2 colonies. Only the structures that are connected to the CC will be able to function, but they will probably function at a slower rate because the CC is shared.

Note: How about this, (for the higher LODs)

When a structure is disconnected from the CC and has people inside, youre options are:
1. Move an Evac transport to it, and move them to a different building.
2. Have the people come out has low poly 'humanoids', they would walk to the nearest structure that is connected to the CC.

The advantage of using an Evac is 1: It's faster than having your colonists walk
2. Your colonists can't be ran over etc... fried directly  by an electrical storm, (the evac survives it better, so they will be more likely to survive.

If by some chance a colonist is injured, they will go to the nearest hospital (using the tubes if possible). This colonist will not be able to help until they are 'healed'.

We could come up with an ENTIRE new set of structures for the purpose of 'serving' the colony: IE Evac docking ports, similar to the airplane dock they use at airports maybe?

Ok, at TH300's post, New structures that are in the 'tube' system possibly? They would be 'sticking' out of the tube but still, :lol:

My ideas:
An ore storage place
'First aid' area
Airlock (alows people to get out of a building when it is destroyed without dying)

Edit: I like the hostage Idea, but in Multi it should have an option of being turned off. lol

[leeor_net]

I think the idea of moving people around in such a fasion would add a complexity to the game that is truelly unprecedented in the RTS genre. So I would rather scratch that.

Also, stormy, not many people know what LOD's and Low Poly mean (Level of Detail for clarification). So I would avoid using those terms all together and leave in the design documents as that's where it belongs.

Also, LOD's wouldn't have that sort of an effect on the game. The LOD settings in the options panel determine how detailed the refresh engine draws everything. EG, a scene with 50000 triangles on the highest level would render instead around 25% less than that (approx 37500) making it easier for slower computers to render the same scene. Essentially LOD's determine the geometric complexity of any given scene. It also effects the quality of the textures rendered (which can actually have a huge effect. Processing a 1024x1024 image takes a LOT longer than a 128x128 image). Plus, the LOD's determine the shadow settings (complex, simple, none) as well as the way particles are rendered (debris from exploding structures, smoke, fire, etc.). For instance, the highest LOD would use 3D models for debris and would toss that around and would probably be able to handle around 1000 particles at once whereas the lowest setting wouldn't do anything more than 100 particles on-screen and would only use OpenGL/DirectX Dots/Points and would be rendered with only a single color (think of the particle system used in Quake2 for those of you who know it).

Also, while having geometric models of humans would be pretty sweet, the only feasible time to use them are on special missions (for instance, Axen Moon being sent to a penal colony in OP2's novella) or for in-game cutscenes such as mission openings.

Other things, however, such as giving the Evac's a true use are things that we should definatly look in to.

[Stormy]

If I ever get Maya, I'm hoping to possibly do the cutscenes in Maya itself. The visual effects are literally stunning! B)


What's complicated about having to move an evac to go 'rescue' people? If the player doesn't have an evac available, the colonists would get out and walk if the distance isn't more than X game units (We don't know what the units for telling the distance in the game will be yet, do we?).
Otherwise, they are stuck there.


(:lol: if we want, we can have a time limit for the amount of time they can be disconnected from an agridome, as they will starve to death.)

[CK9]

I think it would be good to add in direct-ore-exchange between allied colonies.  It would allow for a greater number of in-game stratedgies (for example, if its a 3 v 3 and two people on the team only have 1 and 2 bars nearby while the third has 2 or more 3 bars, the third player could focus on mining and build up their base in a defensive manner, sending ore to the other two who could both build up the main body of the offensive force.)

[Leviathan]

yea something like a monorail for transport thru tubes would be good, and is what i was saying in the other thread.

as for colonists, and capturing, maybe if u remove all the tube from a building and the player dosent idle the building before this happens the colonists r traped inside and then they can be captured.

i would like to see capturing of buildings in the game for sure.

we probly dont need a new building, the trade center will do. but it could have docks or whatevea.

ok that makes sence, because they ran out of housing space they would use the tubes.

i think u should be able to share people and resourses and CC with a ally.

evac transports need to be able to dock at the CC, and maybe other buildings. well if people can walk on new terra (which they can) they can just get into a evac trans. and realy there should be a smaller transport for a few people, and it would be about as fast a a suvayor.

also thinking about people i would like to c a more detailed people system and even have a list of all ur colonsts names and where they work. so if u set a guy to come out of a building u can select him/her and it will have their details. also i dont think vec's would auto target people because they could be captured. but u can still attack them.

hmm evac docking ports, well all buildings will have doors and the vecs can prolly dock with it. there would be a standard door which all buildings use etc. (id love to c a video of a vec driving to a building, stoping and a docking extenshion going to the buildings door)

all residence and morale strucutes would have a first aid kit.

yea stormy all game options should be able to be turned on and off.

i think 3ds max is good for making vids, but im sure maya is also.

hmm as for an Economy, something has to be worked out.

[TH300]

i think u should be able to share people and resourses and CC with a ally.

yea, that would be a nice new feature.

evac transports need to be able to dock at the CC, and maybe other buildings. well if people can walk on new terra (which they can) they can just get into a evac trans. and realy there should be a smaller transport for a few people, and it would be about as fast a a suvayor.

hmm evac docking ports, well all buildings will have doors and the vecs can prolly dock with it. there would be a standard door which all buildings use etc. (id love to c a video of a vec driving to a building, stoping and a docking extenshion going to the buildings door)

evac transports docking into buildings?? I wouldn't treat people like ore. I'd prefer a system in which you drive the evac next to a building and then colonists walk the short way to the building. Some kind of extension coming out of buildings is also a nice idea, but it shouldn't be too big.

also thinking about people i would like to c a more detailed people system and even have a list of all ur colonsts names and where they work. so if u set a guy to come out of a building u can select him/her and it will have their details. also i dont think vec's would auto target people because they could be captured. but u can still attack them.

a more detailed people-system would be interesting, sure. But it would also add much complexity to the game. I'm not sure if thats good for Outpost.
 

[Leviathan]

thats the kinda thing what i meant by docking.

well it would just be nice to be able to see the info. it wouldnt add complexity realy.