Im Pissed Off!

[HaXtOr]

Im so close to leaveing this community forever!
 Im sick of being treated like im worthless and replaceable!!!!!
This crap has been going on way too long!

Im sick of all the monitor humping jokes too! not only are they offensive, they keep driveing me away from the comuinty more.

Ever scince things were taken from Xfir i have noticed a very exponential decline in this community. Everyone in charge is way too blind with power and has no scence of morals or ethics. There needs to be a way to keep things in balence. So many times i have seen ops break rules and go un punished, where if i break a rule im instanly kicked or banned. what the heck is up with that?

Furthermore The fact that my ops was taken away has had me very upset for some time! Every time i ask i keep getting pushed to the side thike a worth less pice of trash! Im better then that, and you know that. Ive spent so many countless hours codeing its not funny. you should be gfreatful that im helping out.

Incase many of you havenet noticed, i have been very distant lately. Keep up these childish games and  I will leave this community forever.

If this message is deleated or edited by any ops then i will take that as a No things wont change and we will continue to decline thus Terminateing my presence here, includeing all code and graphics created/ modifyed by me.

[Freeza-CII]

well you causing multipul counts of discord in the channel because you dont get your way and dont obey the ops commands to calm down.  I have logs ZZJ has logs the BOT has logs we can run through them and show people that you are doing such things.  You generally piss people off and in turn you are made fun of.  As for the monitor thing i think you start it didnt you.  

Before you going talking about the Xfir BS which was blown out of proportion.  Xfir was doing stuff in the wrong got cought and he left on his own he was never banned he just upped and left.  Bringing up the Xfir s*** wont take the spot light off of you while people argue about it again.  Xfir is a dead issue.

As for Your OP your werent replaced.  You were dropped because you werent helping out and you kept coming up with really bad ideas that wouldnt work.
As for helping out you havent done any thing for opu in the last few months.  You just post links to your website and go quiet.    

Well Moogle as for the childishness you act like a child alot.  Quick to strike when you dont get your way and yelling.  If this place is to much for you why dont you take a break from it then come back in a while.
 

[spirit1flyer]

Before you going talking about the Xfir BS which was blown out of proportion. Xfir was doing stuff in the wrong got cought and he left on his own he was never banned he just upped and left. Bringing up the Xfir s*** wont take the spot light off of you while people argue about it again. Xfir is a dead issue.

just to point out something, Xfir was banned. But the admin here did say he could come back if he wanted he just would have to be a member.

I have not liked all that the administrators have done or things they have said but I am not going to fight that out now. I have said what I wanted to point out and now I will go back to my normal life of staying out of heated arguements


spirit

[zigzagjoe]

ditto on all counts freeza.

and no, spirit, he is not banned. if he decides he wants to come back one day, theres nothing stopping him. no bans, nada. but thats long gone history. give it a break.

most of the time you do exactly as freeza says, spamming a link or just being a moron.

as for the oper situation, you were absent for a month or 2, and hence were deopped. you were not held in the best odor as a oper as well, it all factors in.

[Stormy]

I think You were a bit hyper, like I get at times. (yes I have been bouncing off the cabinets in the kitchen) You were hyper, and got mad.. and you just kept on going. If you want to talk about anything, I'm usually here and I'll be more than glad to talk to you with any problems you have, (not that I can do much, but sometimes it helps to have someone who wants to help). Although It was wrong to go around spamming and whatnot, I forgive you, and I hope everyone else does the same. Lets just try to not let it happen again  :heh: .


Guys, One thing I'd like to point out, is that you shouldn't start jokes of any sort about ANYONE. That is Wrong and is very rude. It is not one of the things that will help us stay together; If we want to stand together, we must WORK together and solve problems, talk to people if you have problems, and get them solved!

Lol.. this sounds like a Presidential Address.... xD

[Leviathan]

Moogle I and many others (maybe just joe who dosent because u have fallin out with him) realy want you to stay! You have done lots of great work in the past and im sure your keep doing great work. You have been with us for ages and ive goten to know you over time. Many people have come and gone in the tme you have been with us. Please dont leave.

Your overeacting. If you dont like some people just dont take any notice of them,   dont let them get to you, mute is there for a reason.

Yes and any on-going jokes which people take offence to shouldnt be tolorated.

[TH300]

I'd really like you to stay Moogle. In my eyes you are one of the most valuable Community Members. You have given the Community much (AIs, maps, the BasicLab map, etc.) and I like how you mess around with everything (burning computers etc.) although I would never do that myself.

I can't comment on what happened on irc, because I wasn't there or didn't notice what happened. But whatever it was - it cannot be a reason to leave the Community. There may be people who dislike you but there are also people who like you. Don't disappoint the latters by leaving.

[leeor_net]

To be frank, I think that Moogle has a few points but at the same time, Moogle, I think you're over reacting <rembers the whole bit with Stormy and Hacker>.

And, as a whole, I think a lot of people are taking things to places they don't need to go. Why the seriousness? Who cares? It's a forum and a gathering place for people with something in common: Outpost. And I think that's being forgotten for one reason or another.

While I see various things that I don't particularly like (such as the projects page still missing and Levi's acidic tongue), it doesn't get to me. Whatever. It's the internet. It's easy enough to just  go 'CLICK' and it's gone for awhile.

Besides, we're talking on an IRC channel, not over the telephone. While I'm sure that there are people who have become friends due to OPU, why does everyone get upset over a few minor things? Just let it go and let it be. Simple (but not necesarily easy).

Anyway, I for one will continue to do what I have been doing and unless something really major suddenly happens I intend to keep it that way. I've done a lot already and it makes no sense for me to throw it all away because of a few incidents.

I think everyone needs to look at that.

And Moogle, it's easy to get riled up about things. Granted I can understand the frustration but it's really not that important, is it?

[CK9]

To be frank...

if you're Frank, can I be George?

okay, bad timing on that joke, anyway, Haxtor, don't worry about the declination of the community, it's been happening for years.  As the members get older, the content cannot stay as it was.  Likewise, as the community expands, there isn't going to be that nice calm forum/chat room that we would like to see.  keep in mind that positions of power are not as important as what YOU as an individual can do for the community.

Freeza, next time before you post, you might want to either calm down or more carefully choose your wording, you come off very hostle and, as a mod, you should not be making people feel threatened.  Also, I have read what happened several times from different log files.  As far as I'm concerned, xfir did nothing that was truely wrong.  As the creator of the forum it was basically his property and thus he could do as he wanted.  I'm not saying it was right for him to joke around like that, but I'm also not saying it is right to say he had no right to do that.  (BTW, it is possible for something to be neither right nor wrong to do.)

Spirit, xfir wasn't banned, thoug I can see how in your mind you would link account deletion with account banning.

ZigZag, if you are going to be commenting on a situation such as this, please make it so people who don't speak your own little language can understand you.

Stormy has a very good point.  There is a problem in the community with certain people starting rather rude jokes and rumors about others.  Originally, I only noticed it in kosh (it2000us was rude, but he never started anything of this type of junk).

Lev, muting someone doesn't do much of anyhing, as it is the ops that mute and you have to rely on their judgement.  There are times when I myself have noticed both Freeza and ZigZag start up something, and then resort to power-pushing when things start to turn on them.  Your mind is in the right place, lev, but your eyes keep drifting away.


To all the people who started out here on the community with this forum, keep in mind that there are people who have been a part of the community since the begining who let that go to their heads.  The same goes for some of the op-mods.  Don't join in and then leave because of a few bad encounters, there are those of us who would like to see you here.  The same goes to our older members who have done a lot of work to help keep the game alive.  Stick around, even if a few people think an idea is not a good one, there is a chance that it can become useful.

[leeor_net]

As always, CK9, you have taken my thoughts and made them more clear than I could have ever done. Maybe YOU should be writting the entire OP3 Novella!

Anyway, all points are clear and agreed with. And As I had stated myself, I am hear not because I'm clicking with anyone... I'm here because of a couple of games that were truelly awesome in their days (although some may object to OUTPOST being described as awesome) and, after losing support from the creators of the games, seeked out someone, anyone else who liked them both as much as I do. I found OPU by accident... as a random chance. But despite the problems, I found myself really enjoying myself knowing that there are 100+ active members who are indeed interested in the projects that I have been working on.

And as far as a decline is concerned, I still don't really know what anyone is talking about. Our member count is growing, there are more people on IRC than ever before, the Hamachi servers are usually pretty full and there are OP2 games happening all the time. So where's the decline? (am I just totally missing something?)

[BlackBox]

Moogle, none of us want you to leave. You've done a lot of work which is valuable to the whole community.

However there are some points you need to realize. Like Freeza said, in many instances you have been asked to calm down or stop doing something. Something that remains in recent memory is the issue with clones and constantly posting that url to the LCD screen script.

The reason you were deopped, I've told you many times. You disappeared for a long time without any warning. We figured you just stopped coming, so we had to find a replacement.

As for the jokes -- why not tell people you don't like them? if you're really offended say so instead of getting angry....If it's an op that's offending you, PM another op and tell them about the mentioned op's actions.
Yes, we listen to each other.

As for "ops breaking rules": When did we state that the ops had to follow a predefined set of rules? Granted, the ops aren't going to go around kicking / banning people unless they see a definite need, however they will take any measures necessary to maintain general stability within the channel.. We've also laid down rules for people to follow. If they don't follow them, especially after being asked to follow them, we'll take whatever measures are necessary to ensure compliance. (Which could include kicking / banning)
Also, if someone is bothering other people, we WILL try to take action against that user.

And ditto what most of the other people said. You are overreacting to a lot of this.

So the bottom line is; if you don't like something, tell an op! (If an op's doing the thing you don't like, tell a different op)
Just follow the rules and you won't be punished.

And most importantly, if you feel stressed out or burnt out; it's simple enough to close IRC for awhile if someone is getting to you and come back later. Don't stress out.

[Leviathan]

CK9s is talking about the genral decline of the game over years, less players etc. Well that was true from the shut down of WON in sep 2001 till around 2003. But since the start of the irc room and since it has been established by late 2003 many players of op2 know where to come to play op2 and op2 is actualy being played regulary these days.

Leeor great point, well said, same to CK9. I agree

hehe, joe could put more effor into his posts

I also enjoy making stuff and playing in a small comunity rather than a genral mass internet game or server (like battle.net).

[thablkpanda]

Moogle-

I see your points on several occasions in your post, however you must realize that the degrading of the community is due (to summarize lev) to the influx of people dropping from OPU.

You're an excellent coder, and I take your work in high regard (all that stuff on your site, I've personally downloaded, used, and most of which I've tried to 'duplicate' to no avail)

What I'm getting at - is that I won't beg you to stay, I'm sure there are people that would- but I'm a fan of your work, and I appreciate having you around (seem like a decent person).

@ That nonsense regarding Xfir-

Xfir was 'OPU' as far as this community WAS concerned. And I was 'here' throughout that mess- If he decided to shut this down, and I was in a similar position to the current Admin team, I would've done the same thing. To salvage the community, opposed to losing the 'trust' of a 'friend'? It's only business- and some people have to understand that they can't let feelings get in the way. There's no sense in bringing him up to justify this community's degrading- I'd imagine that we'd all like this community better the way it is- opposed to being lost in cyberspace forever. Comprende?

My 1,176 cents- with spaces.

Panda

[CK9]

Not to drag it out, but this keeps bugging me.  If you (refering to lev and hacker) were afraid of loosing te community, why did you go full out and delete xfir's copy of the database?

[spirit1flyer]

Not to drag it out, but this keeps bugging me. If you (refering to lev and hacker) were afraid of loosing te community, why did you go full out and delete xfir's copy of the database?

I think Xfir had deleted his copy after the admin fight. not sure though


spirit

[zigzagjoe]

Hmm, i was unaware of that, but hacker confirmed it for me; he did delete said db. I can see why have 2 copies of the db in operation would be bad, though. It'ld confuse the crap outa ppl for sure, AND split the comunity.

[CK9]

it would only cause confusion if both were active, however, xfir's would not have remained active.  Lev and hacker would have spread word on IRC, adn everyone would be here, and xfir would have kept his copy of the database without haveing it up until he saw fit to delete it himself,

[Freeza-CII]

Hmmm this isnt the Xfir was f***ed thread.  

Any way As for my first post. I was calm when I posted it I typed what I saw and what I know.  And it may not meet every one properness for english structure but youll just have to get over it.

CK9 explane to me how i am power pushing.

[zigzagjoe]

Yes, i am curious as well to what you mean, CK9. In addition, wt does "ZigZag, if you are going to be commenting on a situation such as this, please make it so people who don't speak your own little language can understand you." mean? Everyone else doesnt seem to have any problem understanding my posts.

As for the xfir situation, its done and done; get over it.

[Leviathan]

Off Topic: We deleted the database on xfir's site after we downloaded it so only we had the most up to date version.

On Topic: Moogle what do you suggest is changed then?

[Freeza-CII]

This is not the we think Xfir got beat with levis stick thread please start another

[leeor_net]

You know what, this is getting really rediculous. As far as xFir is concerned, whatever. It happened. Fine... get over it.

Somehow I don't think that xFir cares too much anymore because there's not much in his forums about it anymore. He's moved on. And everyone who's still whining about it should to.

Now, back to the main issue, Moogle, if you want to reply to the various thoughts that have been posted, do it. Otherwise, I think this topic should just be closed. It's turning into useless bickering and this does no one any good at all.

Long story short: Quit the whining, suck it up and deal. Life's too short to do this so just enjoy what we've got because, in case nobody's been paying attention, OP2 is nearing 10 years of age and there aren't too many people left who care to even look at it.

[CK9]

Freeza, do you not remember a time when you started an argument with someone (can't remember who it was, 'cause the screen name was strange to me) and then resorted to "drop it or you're kicked"?  Unless someone else was using your computer, you need to work on your people skills.

ZigZag, look at your post!  I'll even bold out the points that just don't make sence to have in it for you.
"ditto on all counts freeza.

and no, spirit, he is not banned. if he decides he wants to come back one day, theres nothing stopping him. no bans, nads. but thats long gone history. give it a break.

most of the time you do exactly as freeza says, spamming a link or just being a moron.

as for the oper situation, you were absent for a month or 2, and hence were deopped. you were not held in the best odor as a oper as well, it all factors in"

okay, only two, but in this situation, neither works well.  Since when is 'oder' a measurement of someone's abilities?  It's always been ment to be how they smell.  And why are you using a term for a male body part?

[Freeza-CII]

I dont recall that and I dont have logs from that far back if you could find the log that would be better then speculator evidence.  But I would like to state that I do not use my op power very much.

Ya I have no idea what zzj said either.

[BlackBox]

Freeza, do you not remember a time when you started an argument with someone (can't remember who it was, 'cause the screen name was strange to me) and then resorted to "drop it or you're kicked"?  Unless someone else was using your computer, you need to work on your people skills.

He was simply trying to maintain general peace in the channel... some people tend to carry out a debate or argument on and on and on (such as what's happening here... :find:)... it makes it hard for people to carry on other discussions in the channel, or gaming in general... #outpost2 is for talking about OP2 and having real discussions, not ranting on and on over something stupid.

The only solution after repeated attempts to get them to stop is to kick them.
Also, I didn't know there was some predefined set of rules that an op has to abide by... technically, someone could kick you for liking the color blue. (If you think our channel is bad? Go look around IRC -- you WILL find chans that kick people for liking the color blue, or they might do worse, like banning users who are from the UK, or the USA, etc)

If someone needs to be kicked or banned to maintain the general stability of the channel, then so be it. IRC generally isn't a democracy.

Also, the comment about Joe's post: I find it hard to believe you don't know what "ditto what someone says" means?

Also, quit getting all over people because of their spelling! I'm sick of seeing people bother about other's spelling.. The general meaning should be decipherable, it's usually a typo or something similar.

And I'm SURE you understood the basic jist of Joe's post.

Basically what I want to say is, if this thread is going to degenerate into some flame war involving xfir (which is a dead issue, I'll say again... we don't need to bring it up since it has nothing to do with Moogle or anyone else), I, or someone else will just close the topic, no questions asked.

-- Back on topic --