An Idea Keeping Kids Out Of Trouble In Irc

[Hooman]

I've also seen a certain mmorpg that takes things a bit too far and censors way too much. It's a real pain and leads to people using other ways to chat instead of the in game way. The main problem being, that it censors things that aren't bad, but they pick up as potential swears.

At any rate, the main channel is a gaming channel, and as such, does attract kids. For that reason, I would deem it inappropriate to have certain conversations that do occasionally find their way in there. Not too mention many adults don't like to hear certain things, and there are certain things you shouldn't be making anyone listen to if they don't want to hear it.

Now granted, if they don't want to hear it, they can just quit. But, the channel is dedicated to gaming, not profanity, and if someone wants to be there for the gaming, they shouldn't be the ones forced to leave. So if you have something you want to discuss that's inappropriate, you are encouraged to do it in a different channel. There is nothing stopping you from either creating a new temp channel (just by joining one that doesn't yet exist) or using a less used channel such as lobby for all nonsense. There doesn't need to be an official channel to do this, just go make your own. And if people are unwilling to do this when asked, I see no problem in giving them a hand getting out the door and on their way to a new channel.  
 

[Tellaris]

How Darkspace does this:
1. Gentle warning by the moderator of the ROC, and to keep the language clean.
2. Mod Warning: This is the last "Gentle" warning.   It is a sepial command (/modsay) that comes highlighted and made to stand out, that can be broadcasted to all servers, or just that chat channel.   Its basically saying, "Look, behave, or I'll get mod kung fu on your rear".
3. No longer a gentle warning, mod takes this person aside to PM, tells them to behave, as the next step is a kb.   Also includes a 5 min mute.
4. 2nd last step, kb for 5 minuites.   It is ment to give the person a cool down time away from the channel.   Usually this solves the problem (they come back, and are usually fine, or just don't come back until tomorrow)
5. Last resort for mods, involves a day ban.
6. (This is done by admins) If continued, the ban is extended to a week- to 3 months.   This step can also involve a perma ban.   To have it removed, the player must show they have matured, and they must make restituition to all parties (public appology usually works)   Lasts a minimum of 6 months.

This could be used as a guide for doing things our way, just have to change how many steps you want before each action, and what action is to be taken.   By giving mods/admins a guideline to follow, such as this, actions are uniform by the moderators (what differs is what each mod thinks is "Offensive".   Some things need to be laid out in stone, that can not be allowed to continue.   Unfortunately, there is no way around this)

[Tellaris]

I've decided to add a link to their rules of conduct.   Thats what ROC stands for!
Its done all lawyer style....
Darkspace Rules Of Conduct
If this is considered a double post, sorry.
ps. I'm not trying to advertise the game here, it is a space MMORPG, is also Pay to Play.   I just really like their ROC, it works quite well.   Quite the clean community.

[Freeza-CII]

you shouldn't be making anyone listen to if they don't want to hear it

Hmm well that is why there are filters and such.  If you dont like it filter it leave the room or just plain ignore it.  One person should not try to enforce what they deam proper or clean on any one else.   And some of these conversations you might be talking about are happening late at night.  But for the few that happen during the more popular times just ignore them or filter them.  People have the option them self to block it.  But it seems they would rather have every one else have the same properness.  Any chat room wheather it be a game or chat.  First the rules will be enforced some will leave because they lost some of the freedom that they had.  But the rules dont stop them all so more harsh rules are enforced till the people cant really say any thing at all with out being jumped on by some fanatic that thinks there are little children spying on ever computer screen.  then every one just quits and leaves.  I have seen this.  All of this got started because some people just cant handle a few nasty words.  There every where you just have to live with them.  As for It corrupting the minds of little kids if there are any kids that are online they already know far much more then you think.  And if there are kids in the OP2 channels then maybe we need to find out how old they are and talk normally around them and try not to let any thing slip instead of having some gestopo enforce a s*** load of rules that will just drive people off.  The topic has grown since ZZJ used the bot and had it say rapes samantha.  Yes that might be a little uncalled for mostly because she is new  to the rooms and really wouldnt know that it just joking around.  How ever dont just look at that she is a female and saying rape around them is a forbidden taboo.  There are human like every one else give them the same treatment you would any other new person.    yes this might be a little jumbled

[Freeza-CII]

People need a filter enforce what you want to see with out dictation of rules to other people and make them feel like there in highschool.  And if you cant handle having the filter on then either ignore it yourself live with it or leave the channel.  Part of the internet is freedom.  People dont want to be controlled even in the slightest in the way they talk.  

[Hooman]

And some of these conversations you might be talking about are happening late at night.

In which time zone?

But the rules dont stop them all so more harsh rules are enforced till the people cant really say any thing at all with out being jumped on by some fanatic that thinks there are little children spying on ever computer screen.

Doesn't matter if they are kids or not. Many adults don't like to hear certain off topic things.

The topic has grown since ZZJ used the bot and had it say rapes samantha. Yes that might be a little uncalled for mostly because she is new to the rooms and really wouldnt know that it just joking around. How ever dont just look at that she is a female and saying rape around them is a forbidden taboo. There are human like every one else give them the same treatment you would any other new person.

I don't think you should "rape" any person.

And if there are kids in the OP2 channels then maybe we need to find out how old they are and talk normally around them and try not to let any thing slip instead of having some gestopo enforce a s*** load of rules that will just drive people off.

Yes, exactly. Show some common curtesy and there won't be a need to implement or enforce any rules. If someone asks you not to carry on a distasteful conversation in their presence, you should either stop or take it somewhere else. And since this thread exists, someone is obviously asking.

And as for kicking/banning people who create problems in this area, what do you think the admin/moderator controls are for? IRC is a means of chat, would it not be logical to assume those controls are for controlling chat? You don't really get to control much else. If anything, I'd say they're probably underused. Far too often people get more chances than they deserve when they are misbehaving. How many times should we have to ask them to behave before they are required to do so? Granted, people might get a little over excited and step over that line from time to time, but if they don't show a bit more curtesy when asked, I see no problem with pulling out the admin stick.  <_<

With that said, there won't always be an admin around if you are having problems with someone. If they don't stop when asked, you do have options. There is of course those filters people keep talking about. Perhaps they'd like to talk about how to download and set one up?  <_< There is also the ignore feature in mIRC. An easy right click on their name. I'm sure other clients have similar options. And of course you can always leave the room, but I don't see why this should ever be required.

Part of the internet is freedom.

How long before your freedom impinges on my freedom? So many of you have been brough up with this glorified notion of "free speech", yet you've probably forgotten what that was originally about. Claiming you can say whatever you want and I should just have to deal with it is akin to saying I can pollute the air as much as I want and you're free to wear an oxygen mask to deal with it.

I say screw that over glorified notion of "freedom". That kind of freedom comes at the cost of others. What ever happened to plain old "good goverment"? I'd say the admins of this site have a responsibilty to keep this site a fun place that's free of excessive garbage and to set a good example. And I'm sure this is one of the areas we've been kinda weak at. I think the general attitude people display to one another is far more likely to be a problem then some potential lack of freedom. I don't find this a fun place to be when I have to listen to cussing ever other word. Nor when all there is to read is people talking smack about who they can beat. I don't particularly like hearing about who "raped" who or endless arguments about who the bigger n00b is. And I especially don't like being "stabbed in the face" just to see if I'm around.

Now, I don't think a new official room is any kind of solution. And I don't want to go drawing up a list of rules either. But perhaps just being aware of what bothers people and being more willing to ask people to stop would be enough. It certainly should be.


So,...
Remember kids, "what would Curtis E. Bear do?"  :heh:

 

[Freeza-CII]

How long before your freedom impinges on my freedom

Well that is the thing about freedom if you dont like the freedom some one else wants to exploit then you have the freedom the ignore them get used to it filter them or ask them nicely to not do that but most of the time its a direct command people try.  

Also no one asks any one to not talk that way they just go EWW or ...... or even -.-.  Stormy| is the only one that has to my knowledge.  

Im going to say this Filters that would be the best for one and all no restrictions on chat people can enforce what they dont want to see with out upseting other people and having a lobby and forum brawls.  If the filter takes time to make all the people the would use it just be pateint I sure it will be worth the wait.   I dont know how to make a filter so dont ask me.

[selfdestruct]

oh yes well back about a 1year ago when i played final fantasy 11 online they where so (french word inserted here) strick about it and i mean you turn around and you where almost littlery trown out of the game. And you paid for that online subscription and plus they can take your acount away too not too mention how long it takes to get up to certian levels and if you lets say have a problem and have to erase your hard drive you lose everything which if your paying them like 15 dollers a month do you think they should keep all your information on their storage (wait and the best part is if you dont play or pay their subsciption for a period of three months they close and delete your account). Thats why i joined guild wars free oline subscription and no monitering you have that option in a filter and plus they store your information so your safe, ...

(extra parts deleted)

Edit: please stay on topic, and don't advertise about a game.

Thanks, op2hacker

[BlackBox]

OK, these are my thoughts about the whole issue now:

1. Next version of OPU IRC script will have some sort of offensive language filter that is strictly optional. That way we don't have to enforce "no cussing rules" for everyone, because anyone who would be offended by the cussing, etc can just enable their filter. Nor would anyone be forced to use their filter, if they don't want things filtered, they don't have to turn it on.

However excessive cussing (every other word) won't be tolerated. Attempts to type it with extra characters like spaces or periods, in a way so it doesn't get masked by the filter, won't be tolerated either.

2. We do want everyone to limit the sexually-explicit and violent conversations, since that's stuff that no cusswords filter can really block. If you want to carry on a conversation like that, as we mentioned before, you can do it in a PM or other channel.

And if people are unwilling to do it in a PM or other channel after being asked by an op, they can expect to get kicked.

If you have any suggestions on how we can improve this, let me know. I want to let people have the freedom to say what they want as they have had up to this point, but still allow people who don't want to see it have an option to hide it.

[selfdestruct]

im sorry its just when it came to that subject i tend to have gone off on that topic due to the experiances ive had from that speech freedom and its just wrong, oh i was not promoting advertisment i was just explaining how the game is diffrent from the other types out there but got carried away. that went way off topic.  

[lordly_dragon]

well from experience if you really care about what people say about you on the internet while 1 you will never see them 2 they live on the other side of the planet then i dont think the problem is just that its far deeper than  that either that or your really strange

[Stormy]

The reason i mentioned swearing is because it makes people mad... expecially if you are in an agruement, and it prolongs the problem. In MY oppion, this is about the INNAPROPRIATe things that were talked about... Words are one things.. but explicit 'definitions' etc is very innapropriate. If you are going to do this kind of stuff, do it in a PM.

[lordly_dragon]

i would answer with that: internet is a place where all opinion can be said legal or not with reason or not. This is the best thing and on of the worst thing of the web... and i think no1 is dumb enough to try manage something up... the only one that try is w3c but no one listen to them and browser dont give a s***... so in 1 line: you cannot manage the content said on internet

[Leviathan]

i aint read all the posts but i think the main channel should be a bit moderated and if ppl r talking about non-appropriate stuff they can be asked to move it to the lobby.

i dont c reason the modration else where currently

[RockNavator]

I got bored with reading the debate btu i got about half way through it. So based on what i read my opiniion is that if OPU wants to promote this anti-mature content, the best way to do it would be to create a new channel which is the default. This new default channel would kept "clean". If it were determined that the new recruit was a child, he[she] wouldn't need to find out about the "heathen" channel.

As an aside, I personally don't think that this should be done. We here, for the most part, are mature people. If something is being talked about in the channel that you would rather not read, if you simply ask them to change the topic or go elsewhere with it, they generally will respect your request.

[Hooman]

Umm.... #outpost2 and #outpost2.lobby.

The main channel is #outpost2, and it's moderated and kept clean. If you want to post spam and garbage, that's what #outpost2.lobby is for. It's been this way for ages. People just don't seem to want to take all their garbage over there and need frequent reminders.

As for people who squeeze through the cracks and don't get noticed by moderators? Well, it happens. That and even if someone is kicked over saying something bad, it's too late to erase what they've said.  

[Tellaris]

Firstly, about that free speech crap, let me refer you to a certain comic...
Comic
Basically, you don't like the rules, shove off.   The owners of the network (or in this case, the channel) can do whatever the hell they please to people they deem acting inappropriate.
Language Filters just don't usually cut it.   They help, but often people WILL find ways around them, and often DO.   If you really want to prevent that, then you have to have it for EVERYONE, and you have to punish people doing this severely.
If it isn't enforced for everyone, how can you tell the difference between a few bad hits of the keys vs a purposeful skipping of the filter?   (This CAN be done, quite easily too)
And it dosn't have to be "Gastopo style" as you put it.   I personally find the 3 strikes system quite effective and rooting out the idiots.
And as I said before, don't like it, shove off.

[HaXtOr]

why not just have the anti swear thingy on by default with the mirc downlod?

[Tellaris]

Probobly what they'd do anyway, and it'd be up to the player to disable.   (Thats how it seems to be most of the time with those things, if thats even changeable.)