Author Topic: Research Screen (Read 12092 times)

leeor_net · « **on:** June 03, 2005, 10:05:29 PM »

OP1 had a research interface that was somewhat combersome and unintuitive. It was not easy to navigate due to its complexity and was not very visual nor did it provide any sort of description as to what the research the user is considering will provide.

The following images show the older interface used in OP1 and the new interface in OP:MIA. Which interface should be used?

OUTPOST Research Interface:

OUTPOST: Missing In Action Research Interface:

dm-horus · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2005, 12:45:05 AM »

I dont like the old design but the new design needs some work. Does it fill up the entire screen or is it a window? If window, how much screen area does it take up. Im a big fanatic over screen management, especially in a game where a second without seeing the battlefield can mean your death. Your icons need to maintain a theme. They look a little inconsistent. Also, research subject icons shouldnt be the forus of the "research" window. The point of the window or menu is to show you what research you have available and what it is for. Since descriptions for research take up more space, more space should be devoted to it. Icons for research should take up the least amount of space possible. Also, minimizing "back" buttons or forcing players to navigate AT ALL is detriment to gameplay. clicking on the research menu button and clicking on the appropriate research item is all it should take.

Hooman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2005, 01:01:04 AM »

Err, psst... OP1 was turn based. :whistle:

dm-horus · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2005, 01:34:02 AM »

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Err, psst... OP1 was turn based.

Who is that directed to? I can see how the game being turn based would GREATLY affect research queues, though. Most of my criticisms are asthetic in nature.

leeor_net · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2005, 09:33:28 AM »

DM_Horus, have you ever played outpost 1? If not, I suggest you find a copy of it and play it before making any suggestions.

Second, you are doing a lot of talking about game design and screen management. Believe me, I'm very much aware of game design and screen management. I am myself a hardcore gamer and I know what I like and what I don't.

Lastly, the screenshot of OP:MIA's new research screen is a demo shot. It's not completely functional.

Answering a few of your other questions:

The Research Screen is full-screen.

The icons are dummy icons. They are not at all the finished versions of anything.

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Also, research subject icons shouldnt be the forus of the "research" window

You DEFINATLY have never played OP1.

So before I go on getting irritated, go play OP1. Until then, please say nothing about game design because I'm an expert in the field and you clearly are not.

leeor_net · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2005, 09:37:13 AM »

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Most of my criticisms are asthetic in nature.

In all reality, that means nothing. A criticism is supposed to be helpful, not tell someone what they are doing wrong.

Not to mention, since you've obviously never played OP1 nor have any clue as to what the game is about, I think you need to make sure you are actually informed about what you're saying instead of making blanket statements. OP1 is very different from OP2 and thus the nature of the game is different.

OP1's research screen did not describe anything about what you were researching. As stated in the wlecoming letter, OP1 was never finished. OP:MIA is supposed to be the 'finished' version of OUTPOST.

The only reason I posted a poll was so that the users of OP:MIA would have a chance to provide some input. I didn't ask for design pointers. I don't need them. Especially not in the format you've been consistently delivering them in.

Leviathan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2005, 10:21:41 AM »

hence the phase 'constructive criticism'

I do like the new look but also i think tree format is great way to show research, what leads to what etc.

spirit1flyer · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:16:19 AM »

well I can't see the screenshots but I have played OP1 in the last couple days and go head and change it. It was sucky in the last one

dm-horus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2005, 11:54:43 AM »

well, leeor you asked what people thought and i told you. if youd like i can bite my tongue. if you dont want honest criticism then you should make it clear in the subject line that you only want what you want to hear.

secondly, i specialize in UI's. since it wasnt obvious that the game being turn based affected anything, i didnt consider it. your post basically showed 2 screenshots and asked "what do you think?" i told you what i thought. throwing additional information in my face that from what i could see wasnt relevant isnt fair.

i game just as much as you and im probably a lot more critical about interfaces. ive designed things you couldnt imagine, so dont get me started my good son.

its a real shame that you had to resort so such childishness. i wasnt being critical of you or saying what you worked on looked like s***. to the contrary, i appreciate your work. but the fact is, you asked for input and i gave you some. since you obviously cant handle that, i suggest you stop asking. if you cant take it, go home.

you failed in one of the main tenets of development: dont take criticism personally. and now you gave me the opprotunity to defend myself, since opinions arent a crime and you asked for them. so next time make it clear who you do and dont want to hear from. from what ive learned in irc, a great deal of core community members have never played op1 and you seem to have no trouble taking opinions from them.

and before you ask, i have no desire to debate who has and who hasnt more experience. thats not what these forums are for.

Stormy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2005, 12:30:41 PM »

Hmm... I think we ALL need to stop the bickering. It's nobody's fault, so stop pointing fingers. I think that we just should forget this little incident here... shall we? And move on

By the way, I"m not taking sides on this. I don't like these "arguements" within the community. I could say more, but i'd start taking sides, so I won't.

Stormy :op2:

dm-horus · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2005, 12:44:48 PM »

i dont understand why people are getting so defensive. i made an OPINION. i mean, you asked for it did you not? i never claimed to be an expert and i never implied that in what i was saying. i havent played op1 and i dont think i need to. i dont have to prove myself to you or anyone. and if youll read up, youll notice that i didnt resort to insulting anyone immediately. i was trying to contribute but that obviously isnt what you want. this is very disappointing. my intention wasnt to argue or ciriticize, i just wanted to add to the thread.

but the next time i see a thread by leeor ill stop and think for a minute: "do i want to get flamed today?"

ill say something else, the noobs to the community notice this kind of thing. if you want the forum to be open to opinion then youll reconsider pouncing on people like this. theres obvioiusly some hidden animosity going on here and i really dont appreciate it. all past arguments aside, im here to HELP. im on YOUR SIDE. if i dont know something, you might try educating me instead of throwing it in my face. the number of games you play shouldnt be the meter stick by which you measure the value of an opinion.

BlackBox · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2005, 05:20:29 PM »

For both leeor and horus, I'll make this statement:

Both of you need to stop flaming each other. It doesn't matter who is "the professional in game design." First of all, professionals make mistakes. It doesn't matter how much experience you've had, how much money you make -- you will still make a mistake!

I might also say, it's not about what YOU think is best, it's about what the END USER thinks is best. That's precisely why leeor created a poll. The end user is the one who will be using the game, so it should be meeting their standards before it meets yours. How I can say this? Because I've played games myself and found lots of things that I think could change, or be made better.

Aside from that, leeor, there was no need to react the way you did. In my opinion it doesn't look like he's trying to put you down or trying to offend or criticize you in any way. If this has anything to do with the incident from a while ago, forget it now.

To everyone: Knock off the flaming. I don't want it to end in having to lock topics endlessly, or worse yet, banning people to keep the forum peace.

Horus is entitled to his own opinion, as is everyone else. So let's all leave it at that.

leeor_net · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:46:52 PM »

Yeah, you're right. I've had a really lousy day and I think I turned it against the first person that came my way. I apologize... when I'm feeling a little better I'll review your comments, Horus, and look at them from an objective standpoint rather than the "he's out to get me bit".

So don't mind me. I get like this sometimes.

omagaalpha · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:48:23 PM »

hey leeor wonder if there could be tech tree that has only technology all ready invented .....
Are you going to have window that show name improvement that actual affected coloney in outpost 1. I forgetted what name of what it called.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:50:46 PM »

Well, I actually have played Outpost 1, and I do believe I owned the original version (not OP 1.5). Or at least borrowed it for awhile. I think that there should be a combination of OP1, OPMIA, and OP2. It has something similar to the OP1 "tree" thing, the OPMIA icons and general design/interface, and the OP2 description method (you click on it and it tells you what it is/does and what you get from it). That way, it's clear what leads to what and why you'd even want to research something.

Oh, and isn't the AI Icon the Savant-wannabe from OP1?
God I hated that thing. It gave me great pleasure to name her so she'd say things like "Greetings Commander. I am a whore." or "I am gay." Stupid computer.

omagaalpha · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2005, 06:59:09 PM »

Well always thought voice was nice little touch to game. In my opioned outpost 1 and 1.5 are outpost 1 since are same game.

leeor_net · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:39:25 PM »

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Oh, and isn't the AI Icon the Savant-wannabe from OP1?

Yeah, it is... ;-)

OP1 and OP1.5 are indeed the same game. 1.5 was a patch that allowed the user to build roads and monorails, establish trade with the rebel colony and various other little things here and there. In essence, they fixed a lot of the problems a little too late.

My thought with the research screen was very much like Sirbomber's: OP1's research tree with the new interface with OP2's description. The above image is actually a dummy image; e.g., it's not what will be the final result in the game. I threw a rough sketch together to give the general idea as to what the new research screen would generall look like.

I wanted the research screen to work more like a directory tree in Windows, e.g. a series of 'folders' that you could open up grouping together related technologies/research topics. So far I think it's fairly effective but I do need to go over it and polish it up.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #17 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:41:47 PM »

Alright then, sounds good to me... for now.

leeor_net · « **Reply #18 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:51:39 PM »

Added note:

DM-Horus, I think a more productive version of what I was saying earlier is: "Seeing that you've probably not played OP1 you may want to visit OP:MIA's home web page here: http://opmia.outpostuniverse.net. It'll give you a bunch of information about OP:MIA and some information about what OUTPOST was."

Anyway, adding to the above, I will be updating OP:MIA's web site with more information about OUTPOST so that people who have never played OUTPOST but are interested in the OP:MIA project can see where the OUTPOST series started and why OP:MIA exists in the first place.

Hooman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2005, 12:55:55 AM »

I rather like to look of the sample screen, although, I guess I'm not entirely sure how it'll be all laid out. Just sorta felt like pointing out that research is really more of a directed acyclic graph than a tree (I'm a geek a heart, and noone else has said it (thumbsup) ). Although a tree most certainly organizes topics into groups quite nicely. I've always enjoyed games where I could get a good feel for the research ... uhh, "tree". :unsure: But, I'm sure you know what you're doing. I'm not too worried about how this one is going to turn out.

omagaalpha · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2005, 06:01:17 AM »

heeh ok now understand about it thankyou.

vv1r3d · « **Reply #21 on:** December 29, 2005, 10:10:57 PM »

i like the new one, it looks more like Alpha Centauri (Sid Mier) which is a game that is very good, just kind of repetitive LOL

just my opinion, VV1r3d

Betaray · « **Reply #22 on:** December 29, 2005, 10:18:34 PM »

wow thats the most one sided poll I have ever seen lol

good work leeor

Sirbomber · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2005, 09:01:10 AM »

Now somebody's going to vote to keep the old one just to screw everything up.
Then again, it would have been me if I hadn't already voted... :rolleyes:

omagaalpha · « **Reply #24 on:** December 31, 2005, 06:09:01 AM »

lol think kindy late since already been deceided on.

ps leoner maybe closed topic

News:

Poll

Should OUTPOST: Missing In Action use the older research interface developed for OUTPOST or should it use the new research screen developed for OP:MIA?

Author Topic: Research Screen (Read 12092 times)