Author Topic: Health & Welfare  (Read 1743 times)

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Health & Welfare
« on: September 28, 2018, 06:41:24 PM »
I guess my karmic payback for building a fast commercial building is that I'm having a hard time with the medical center.

Here are two version, though they don't quite look like medical centers to me. I think I will build up a third option that will likely be more blockish and modular (so it looks like hospital wings).

Looking for any feedback, but also weigh in the fact that I stopped early on option 1 (because I didn't like the progress).

Offline chris2222

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 07:26:29 PM »
Maybe it's the buildings shape that needs to change?  Maybe make it square building (or a multiple square modular type building), have a white circle with a red plus sign in the middle to signify the hospital kind of like a landing pad on the top?? Just a thought.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2018, 12:00:15 AM »
Maybe it's the buildings shape that needs to change?

Yes, I agree. I went for something different and tried to get more of a hospital feel. I also took your suggestion and put a red plus sign on top. :)  (Though a "landing pad" is a bit out of the question, given that this will be underground.)

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2018, 12:08:51 AM »
I like the overall feeling of the third revision though the red cross cannot be used (trademark infringement with the Red Cross organization... they get really pissy when people use the 'red cross' likeness to represent health in games).

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2018, 12:29:55 AM »
Right you are. I've changed the scheme to green. Just straight green didn't work as well, because the contrast clashed. So I went with a glow.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 12:41:07 AM by White Claw »

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2018, 05:33:53 AM »
Huh, so that explains all the green crosses that started appearing in video games for health packs. Well, I just learned something.

Apparently the red cross is more of a "don't shoot" symbol, with the bearer protected by the Geneva convention, more so than anything to do with health.


Anyway, I really like the first set of buildings, but you're right, they don't much look like a hospital. The later set definitely looks more like a hospital. I think I preferred the big "H" over the cross symbol. It's less ugly than a green cross, and the "H" does actually mean hospital.

Offline chris2222

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2018, 08:05:43 AM »
Did not realized that about the red cross. 

Ok, I like the idea of the H.  How about a white H on a blue background on the side of the building.  Like the one on the attached hospital.

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2018, 11:04:12 AM »
Is the white H on a blue background a universal hospital symbol? That's how it's done in the US but I'm unsure about other countries...

>does some google fu<

Seems there is no universally accepted symbol for "Hospital"... but the white H on a blue background seems about as close as possible.

I did come across this which we could use for icons in the game (well, at least as a sort of guide for the important stuff).

Offline chris2222

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2018, 11:39:34 AM »
Canada is the same, but I'm not sure of outside of North America but pretty sure it's universal.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2018, 01:47:07 PM »
I don't disagree that the green cross "needs work."

So, in the mean time, I've built the nursery.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2018, 01:50:14 PM »
Also, I didn't mention it because I was curious if anyone would pick up on it. The shape of the hospital was inspired by the EMS symbol.


Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2018, 02:23:53 PM »
Ya know, I thought so? But I thought I was being weird.

Some blue accents on the nursery I think would help it to stand out a bit, kinda like on the original structure (which is a repurpose of some other structure from the original game, not sure what it was originally). Otherwise I like the overall shape.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2018, 02:30:34 PM »
Another version of the medical building.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2018, 03:01:18 PM »
More nursery color variations. I think I like "C" the best. I included "A" again (with no changes) for ease of comparison.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2018, 05:56:09 PM »
First attempt at the underground park.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:13:44 PM by White Claw »

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2018, 06:47:29 PM »
Well, I can't seem to stop fiddling with the park. I went for a bit more of a grand design (more in line with the original) and brightened it up further.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 06:49:48 PM by White Claw »

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2018, 02:02:56 AM »
Looks good but I'm a little concerned about the shadow clipping... Can we soften the edges or allow the shadow to go past the edge of the tile plane?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:04:28 AM by leeor_net »

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2018, 02:10:11 AM »
I played with the hues and vibrance a bit for the Park to kinda get the blues and greens to 'pop' a bit more, make it a little more lively. Is it garish or does it work better?


And another one without the structure color itself changing:

« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 02:12:59 AM by leeor_net »

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2018, 11:14:41 AM »
I've been concerned about the shadow clipping for a while now, and I've managed to keep most buildings low enough that it's either not a factor or hardly noticeable. I can let the shadow spill over, but I had some concerns (not knowing some of the inner workings of the game engine).

I assume the tiles are drawn first, then the buildings over the top? If that's the case, then most of the technical issues are not a factor. That leaves my last concern, which is that shadows spilling over to neighboring tiles won't properly fall on any of the neighboring structures. I.e. in the case below, if the park dropped a shadow on the tube to the university, it will appear "flat" across the tube.

On the plus side, in this very specific example of the park, the building is big enough that it obscures it's own shadow for the top left tube. So ultimately not a factor here, but it is a factor in some other cases (such as the attached comm tower). I originally had a smaller version of the park, but I felt that if people were going to go through the trouble of building a relatively non-utilitarian structure during a survival situation, it would probably be really over the top. I figure it's about the only place they have that calls back to natural instincts, so it would likely be a rather grand structure.

I think, for the most part, I can let the shadow spill over and work around the issues:
1) Very large buildings are also likely to be big enough to obscure their own shadow.
2) Any building that doesn't obscure it's own shadow (but tall enough to cast into a neighboring tile) is also likely narrow enough that the shadow falls into unoccupied areas of neighboring tiles.
3) Any other building not fitting into #1 or #2 can probably be adjusted to keep the shadow within the game tile (as has mostly been the case thus far).



Secondarily (if that's a real word), I am starting to get on board with increased color vibrance. I've intentionally kept many of the colors somewhat dark due to the atmosphere of the game (end of human civilization and all) and have stuck with the pallet that was worked out some months ago. Just like above, I do have some concerns. The tiles are so tight and everything packed in, I also want to avoid a situation where a large colony just starts to look like a lot of noise. Where there's so many buildings and they're all so loud/colorful that it's just a big canvas of abstract art. I'm not saying you did that with the park, but I'm mostly looking at the medical center (it's quite bright). I do like the feel of the park a bit more. It's lit up but not spectacularly bright. To me it makes it feel bigger.

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling. I'm not sure if it made any sense or went anywhere, but I guess I can say that I've been thinking about these things too.

Offline chris2222

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2018, 11:26:44 AM »
I like the park with a bit more blue in it.  I see you're going with the green x as opposed to a blue H?  I know it's a matter of preference but I prefer a blue H, I was also thinking the H was a bit small - perhaps it could be made a bit larger, that is the top portion of the building have a larger dome to hold the larger H.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2018, 02:49:20 PM »
Ah, yeah...This is one of the things I was afraid of. The foreground terrain occludes the building shadow. I think the only way to overcome this is for me to shrink the building to pull the shadow inside the tile.

Offline chris2222

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2018, 03:19:39 PM »
The larger building would look better even if the shadow doesn't work well, but make it pop with the brighter blues. 
side question - Do you model these structures at higher resolution and then downscale them?  edit*** ok saw the graphics update which answers my question - sorry for a question with an obvious answer.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 03:26:05 PM by chris2222 »

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4697
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2018, 04:40:21 PM »
Very interesting tidbit about the shape of the hospital. I wouldn't have guessed that.

Agreed about nursery variation "C" looking best, though it's so close and hard to tell.

I like the brighter blues and greens for the park.

As for shadows, I wonder if people would even noticed if you just omitted a shadow for that structure. In particular, both the park and agridome are made of glass. Maybe they shouldn't cast shadows, or at least not strong ones.

I also wanted to point out it's an underground structure. This raises questions about the shadows, and where they come from. Mind you, looking cool, and giving it some feel of depth is probably more important than a good explanation.

The tile clipping can be partially addressed by drawing the base layer entirely first, and then drawing units on top later. Though that doesn't deal with shadows falling on adjacent structures and falling flat.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2018, 06:18:53 PM »
Okay, more adjustments to the park. Version A is the most recent. VerB is with some basic color adjustments. VerC is with color adjustments and shrunk to pull the shadow off the tile to the bottom left. And VerD is the same as VerC but with an enlarged water area inside.

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Health & Welfare
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2018, 06:26:10 PM »
And here's a comparison of the nursery with the same shadow fixes and color shift as the park.