Author Topic: Op2 Tech Tree  (Read 3201 times)

Offline marty651

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Op2 Tech Tree
« on: February 19, 2016, 12:49:52 PM »
Hi,

In 2007 there is a thread with the same subject.

http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php?topic=3477.0

Does anybody still have the old tech trees which were created at that time (general /Eden / Plymouth)? I think it was Excel based and had a color coding for standard/advanced lab. Or something similar? Needless to say the 9 year old links don't work anymore...

Thanks for your help!
marty651

Offline Vagabond

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2016, 02:50:44 PM »
I haven't seen tech flow charts before. All the info can be found here http://wiki.outpost2.net/doku.php?id=outpost_2:outpost_2_manual:reasearch.

It just won't be formatted as nicely.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 02:14:43 PM by leeor_net »

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 04:46:19 AM »
It's a pity that the work from that time seems to have got lost.

I consider creating a flow chart (and if it's just for myself...) by using "Dia Diagram Editor". It's open source (GPL) so everybody can use it.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/dia-installer/

I have just started to check how it would look like (see attachment).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 04:53:43 AM by marty651 »
marty651

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 04:52:51 PM »
Hi everybody,

OK. It took me some hours, but it's almost done. You find attached version 0.5 of the OP2 tech tree. It's all I could read from the wiki (http://wiki.outpost2.net/doku.php?id=outpost_2:outpost_2_manual:reasearch).

I found some errors and inconsistencies. Some examples:

- Directional Magnetic Fields is not described. Is it with advanced lab? For Eden only? What are the prerequisites?

- Focused Microwave Projection and Large Scale Optical Resonators are described with no prerequisite. But in the tech overviews of Eden and Plymouth they are listed below Cybernetic Teleoperation. Which is correct?

- Lava Defenses is marked as "Plymouth only" but it appears in the Eden tech list. The same with Magnetohydrodynamics. Are these mistakes in the overview lists?

Perhaps somebody can help?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 02:15:03 PM by leeor_net »
marty651

Offline leeor_net

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 01:49:53 PM »
This is really awesome, actually.

I can't verify some of the information but it looks to be very helpful. When it gets finished (v0.5 as of this post, so I guess somewhere around v1.0) I can get it uploaded to the Wiki.
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Offline Vagabond

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 08:14:24 PM »
Marty,

I confirmed when playing Eden or Plymouth colony games, Focused Microwave Projection and Large Scale Optical Resonators do not require any pre-requisites. The tech overviews are incorrect in this case and should probably be adjusted.

Thank you for pointing out the mistake in the Wiki concerning missing Rail Gun technology. I fixed the wiki a few minutes ago by adding Directional Magnetic Fields. It does require the Advanced lab. Below is the full info.

IN_TECH "Directional Magnetic Fields" 05506
    CATEGORY        7
    DESCRIPTION     "The Rail Gun weapon is now available.  _______________________________________ The Rail Gun turret uses an electric current to accelerate a projectile to velocities of several hundred meters per second. The weapon consists of two copper rails and the R-10 cool-fusion power cell, which charges a capacitor.  The capacitor is discharged into one rail and the current flows through the projectile into the second rail, producing a directional magnetic field that accelerates the projectile."
    TEASER          "Makes the Rail Gun weapon available.  _______________________________________ Some of our researchers, reviewing the military database brought from Earth, have found an abstract of a proposal for a weapon that uses a directional magnetic field to propel a projectile.  Although plans for the weapon were lost, we believe we can recreate such a device."
    REQUIRES        05111
    REQUIRES        05201
    EDEN_COST       2000
    PLYMOUTH_COST   -1
    MAX_SCIENTISTS  14
    LAB             3
END_TECH

Lava walls are a bit complicated. They are not available to Eden in Campaign mode which uses the edentek.txt text tree. However, they are available to Eden in scenarios that use the multitek.txt version of the tech tree, which includes most multiplayer levels and the colony games. I just added a note to lava walls and microbe walls on the wiki site to reflect this.

Keep in mind that each scenario can have a custom tech tree, so it is difficult to nail down an exact answer for all scenarios.

Nice work so far on the chart.

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2016, 04:26:01 PM »
Thanks for your help. With the attached Version 0.9 I believe I am very very close to the final version.
Found one mistake in the wiki: From multitek.txt I read that "Mobile Weapons Platform" needs an advanced lab.

Still one question:
Some techs in multitek.txt have EDEN_COST=0 (Rocket Propulsion, Meteor Detection) or PLYMOUTH_COST=0 (Meteor-Watch Observatory). The wiki says they are not available then for that fraction. Is that correct? Because normally a value of "-1" marks that it's not available.
marty651

Offline Vagabond

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2016, 08:11:11 PM »
Marty,

I updated the wiki on Mobile Weapons Platform for either standard or advanced, depending on the scenario. Good to know someone is getting good use out of it.

As far as using -1 vs 0 in the tech file, I'm not sure why one value is used over the other. However, from experience playing the game, Eden cannot research Rocket Propulsion or Meteor Detection and Plymouth cannot research Meteor-Watch Observatory. You would probably be okay just assuming either -1 or 0 means the faction cannot research the specific tech, but someone with more knowledge of tech trees would have to answer for sure.

Your tech tree is looking good, I just see a minor typo, Scout-class Drive Train Benefit instead of Scout-class Drive Train Refit.

Offline lordpalandus

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2016, 11:30:02 PM »
I do believe in the Campaign for Eden/Plymouth, that the two initial weapons couldn't be researched until you researched the vehicle factory. In colony/starships it doesn't have a prerequisite. However, there was other inconsistencies with the tech tree in campaign and colony/starship, such as Lasers doing different damage values.

Railguns was advanced lab. Researched after improved tokamak power and improved laser weapon damage.
BAM! You've been facehugged! Have a great day!

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2016, 06:08:31 AM »
I hereby proudly present Version 1.0 attached ready for upload to the wiki  ;)

Your tech tree is looking good, I just see a minor typo, Scout-class Drive Train Benefit instead of Scout-class Drive Train Refit.

Thanks for the correction.

I do believe in the Campaign for Eden/Plymouth, that the two initial weapons couldn't be researched until you researched the vehicle factory...

I am aware of that the tech tree is for Multiplayer/Colony games only because it is based on the multitek.txt. For the campaigns the trees look much different. I have attached a version 0.7 for the Plymouth campaign - (perhaps final if nobody finds any errors...)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 08:38:37 AM by marty651 »
marty651

Offline Hooman

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2016, 02:22:56 AM »
Those are kind of fun to look at. They're very hard to layout nicely though.

I wonder if there might be some value in looking at just sections of a tech tree. Like say, weapons techs, listing just immediate prerequisites of weapons techs that are not themselves also weapons tech. Or colony techs. The techs do have an associated category, so that can be used for selecting techs of interest.

Does the tool you use have an algorithm to do the layout, or is that all manual?

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2016, 04:38:23 PM »
Yes, there is much room for optimization!  ;)
I'm quite busy with my real life but if I find some time I'll try to follow your suggestion by grouping the techs into the categories.

I use "Dia Diagram Editor". It's a workflow editor (GPL) and more or less manual. But at least it keeps the connections between the single rectangles if you move them around. Otherwise it would be a nightmare...
marty651

Offline Hooman

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2016, 10:28:00 PM »
Yes, I was thinking that too. If you tried to move boxes and the lines didn't come with them, that'd be a major pain. I've noticed a slight inconsistency though where sometimes lines join up, and then lead to a box, while other times multiple lines lead to a box. Is there any significance to that?

I've heard of Dia before.

Do you have the source project files? It would be good to post them, or even put them in the SVN or on GitHub or something.

Offline marty651

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Re: Op2 Tech Tree
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 01:47:20 PM »
Sorry I got totally distracted by real life for a few weeks...
I used multiple lines in cases where I found it wouldn't be unambiguous without.

I tried to group the multiplayer tech tree into categories. There are some easy changes which would allow "some" grouping. But my attempts to get it completely grouped into the categories ended in chaos  :)

For anybody who wants to accept the challenge, I attach the original "dia" files...
marty651