Author Topic: Black Holes  (Read 22416 times)

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2010, 12:20:17 PM »
what do you guys think of "bubble" universes?
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #101 on: May 26, 2010, 12:48:19 PM »
in which context?  Bubble universes within our own as seen in an episode of ST:TNG?  Or as in each universe being a bubble in hyperspace?
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #102 on: May 26, 2010, 01:12:12 PM »
As in the idea that multiple Big bangs happened in different spots of the "true" universe, not the star trek stuff (unless it is accrete.)
sorry spell check/Google doesn't recognize that last one
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #103 on: May 26, 2010, 01:26:45 PM »
the true universe what exactly does that mean it sounds to religion like.

But this is starting to sound more like string theory.  and so far there is only one big bang in our universe.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #104 on: May 26, 2010, 02:55:55 PM »
Quote
the true universe what exactly does that mean it sounds to religion like.

But this is starting to sound more like string theory.  and so far there is only one big bang in our universe.
no there is the "observable" universe and there is what we don't see or as i said "true" universe
also i have heard of the string theory but don't know it(or i do and just didn't realize it)
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #105 on: May 26, 2010, 03:02:20 PM »
From the context, I think he's talking about hyperspace.

For anyone that might be unfamiliar with the term/concept: hyperspace is, in many theories, the region that a universe can form within.  This is used in both the bubble universe and membrane universe concepts.  It is space, but not as we define it.

I personally tend to lean more towards the bubble universe rather than the membrane universe simply because a bubble seems to allow for more flexibilty in formation and therefore the conditions of our big bang as we think we know them to be.


The thing from Star Trek is theoretically possible as long as you use the basis of time and space being a single concept.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #106 on: May 26, 2010, 04:06:16 PM »
okey... im not exactly sure if i even know what you talking about.im saying the true universe would be full of big bangs that leed to the universe we know now. so if there are other big bangs then how would one prove it. only way i can think of is earth seeing a mega nova(REEEEALY big supernova) or see tons of stars suddenly appear on one side of the known universe
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #107 on: May 26, 2010, 04:21:28 PM »
that doesnt make any sense at all.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #108 on: May 26, 2010, 04:29:22 PM »
that figures... okey ill try again.
thets say that instead of ONE big bang there where thousands and now as they age they get older and form universes.
now what where to happen is two of these collided?
what would be seen.
i think that we would see is a super nova so powerful that it would instantly bleach the surface white. that or a lot of stars showing up at once
hope that clears it up a little
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #109 on: May 26, 2010, 04:35:22 PM »
if 2 what collided universes? That is pretty much the theory that the universe itself was created by membranes touching causing a singularity and making the big bang that made every thing in our universe. A universe hitting another universe may not be a good things but if we look at how galaxy hit each other if the universes are simular or identical they would blend together. but if opposite like a antimatter universe the 2 universes would annihillate each other on contact.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #110 on: May 26, 2010, 04:43:07 PM »
not exactly. for some reason matter dominates anti-matter by a small percentage. other wise we could not exist due to the fact that the big bang was 50/50 mater/antimatter
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #111 on: May 26, 2010, 04:46:09 PM »
Quote
i think that we would see is a super nova so powerful that it would instantly bleach the surface white.
What? This doesn't even make sense.

Bleaching of materials that you see in everyday life (like with plastic) occurs due to UV light. It causes oxidation within the materials which cause their absorption spectra to change. The same change occurs in many pigments and dyes (compounds that are used to color something else via subtractive color mixing, for example inkjet printers typically use a dye based process to produce the colors (high end ones and laser printers use a pigment based process).

To my knowledge planet surfaces are not generally made out of organic materials that have these properties so I doubt that it would bleach the surface white (though I'm sure many organics would be destroyed due to the huge increase in surface temperature as well as the large amount of ionizing radiation being emitted from the star).

NB: I am not an astrophysicist

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #112 on: May 26, 2010, 04:49:03 PM »
Quote
not exactly. for some reason matter dominates anti-matter by a small percentage. other wise we could not exist due to the fact that the big bang was 50/50 mater/antimatter

your talking about our universe not one that was created in another big bang or parallel to our own. Its possible that the other universe would be filled with anti matter instead of matter the reverse of ours.

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #113 on: May 26, 2010, 04:50:45 PM »
Quote
Its possible that the other universe would be filled with anti matter instead of matter the reverse of ours.
good point
Quote
Bleaching of materials that you see in everyday life (like with plastic) occurs due to UV light. It causes oxidation within the materials which cause their absorption spectra to change. The same change occurs in many pigments and dyes (compounds that are used to color something else via subtractive color mixing, for example inkjet printers typically use a dye based process to produce the colors (high end ones and laser printers use a pigment based process).
what i meant was that all life would be effectively destroyed
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 04:53:00 PM by evecolonycamander »
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #114 on: May 26, 2010, 07:31:59 PM »
ECC, from what I'm reading, you're talking about bubble theory (in which there are many universes forming and dying in their own little bubbles in hyperspace)
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #115 on: May 27, 2010, 10:05:39 AM »
hyperspace is what you call the outside of universe, correct?  
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #116 on: May 27, 2010, 12:13:17 PM »
hyperspace is the "thing" within which all possible universes are held according to several thories
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #117 on: May 27, 2010, 06:23:46 PM »
good. now what do you think would be seen if two of these universes collided?
would it be a peaceful appearance
or violent with Gama rays all over(assuming that it is not some other energy wavelength)
i have another question
because this topic has left its original discussion, why not rename it to space because that is what it has to deal with
(im kidding)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 06:24:30 PM by evecolonycamander »
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #118 on: May 27, 2010, 06:48:18 PM »
I have some theories on universe collisions:

1) Inert Reaction: A case in which the two colliding universes are out of phase with eachother.  There is a small chance of seeing things from one in the other, but nothing happens because things that aren't in phase with eachother cannot interact.

2) Catastrophy: A case in which one or both of the universes are destroyed in the collision.  This is all dependant upon factors comparable to sub-atomic particle interactions.  One such factor has been pointed out by freeza already.

3) Coalsce: A case in which conditions are just right for one universe to be absorbed by the other.  This would require both to have physics that allow for it.

4) Oddity: A case in which adsorption occurs.  The attached universe might be able to be seen, but it would be like trying to travel through a glass wall.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #119 on: May 27, 2010, 07:42:45 PM »
now because i have found info on this subject. i do have another question why would our known universe look like a 3d oval (other then the fact of the MW hides 3+%.)
dose this imply that mabie two big bangs occurred simultaneously next two each other? about 30 billion light years away i think(don't quote me on the numbers)
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2010, 10:03:02 PM »
it is a falicy if human perception in the world around us.  We are trying to describe a higher dimension object in 3 dimentional terms.
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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #121 on: May 28, 2010, 12:02:33 AM »
I think perhaps two "uni"-verses is a bit misleading in what you seem to be getting at. From what I understand of what you're saying, it sounds like what if two big bangs happen in the same universe, but in very different places (and at possibly different times). The effects of each bang would be expanding outward at the speed of light (assuming nothing travels faster than this). Some people consider the size of the universe to be the sphere with radius equal to the age of the universe times the speed of light. By that definition though, the universe is expanding. (Into what?)

Now, if instead, we consider the universe to be all possible space that the effects of the big bang can spread into, rather than the area currently affected (due to radiation or matter passing through), it would seem possible that there is more than one point at which a big bang could occur. Since they start off in separate locations, there is some minimum amount of time before they would be able to "see" each other (in terms of radiation or matter from one interacting with the radiation or matter from the other). If this minimum amount of time has not elapsed, then you, being in one of these big bang affected areas, would not be able to observe or detect the existance of the other, because nothing (not even light) would have had the time to travel far enough. Now what happens when enough time elapses so that their sphere of influences begins to intersect?

I believe that's what the question was.

I think extra stars would just sort of pop into "sight", like someone turning on a light. Since the distance is so great, I suspect they would be so dim that you'd have trouble seeing them, and the increase in background radiation would be extremely minor. At least, assuming both big bang points are stationary. If one is moving in relation to another, than perhaps a Doppler effect would create a big flash of light/radiation, much like a sonic boom. But for that to happen, one would have to be moving close to the speed of light in relation to the other.
 

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #122 on: May 28, 2010, 10:41:47 AM »
well first off if two big bangs happened near each other you have to remember if there explosion then they might just blow each other out.  But first it would have to be possible for there to be two of them near each other.  Also it leads you back to the whole universe collision would the big bangs have the same composition or physics to them.

Now ok if two of them has the exact same identical exsistance. then its likely they would merge making a universe the looks different according to the scans of radiation.  it would have more a dumb bell shape then a eliptical.


also Hooman tachyons are suppose to be fast as light or faster.  They have not been proven to exsist yet tho.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 10:42:49 AM by Freeza-CII »

Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #123 on: May 28, 2010, 01:20:01 PM »
i really should draw some diagrams for this subject
hooman you are correct about the question
i still wonder tho how an object containing all the known mass at 1D (single point) could become the universe as we know it with out extreme circumstances. circumstances beyond the power of the laws of science (too many to name)
edit: yes dumbbell. i just couldn't think of the name
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 02:16:30 PM by evecolonycamander »
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Offline Moley

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« Reply #124 on: May 28, 2010, 05:19:17 PM »
so what you want to know is our theories on what would happen if 2 universes collided?
i believe that unless the laws where PERFECTLY aligned, nothing would happen...
"something" would prevent miss-aligning rules from merging and so on...
and if they did merge, it would be like uhhhhh.... some bio term i'll get to it later...
[EDIT]apparently i can't find it quickly enough and not being a bio major i don't know, just mentally use reverse mitosis[/EDIT]
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 05:21:37 PM by Moley »
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