Author Topic: C.s. (command Scout)  (Read 6944 times)

Offline DarekStar

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C.s. (command Scout)
« on: November 30, 2007, 02:45:06 AM »
im gona concentrate of feature for the scout for now as Marukasu whanted


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Scout: needs more use than scanning buildings. maybe a addon that will let it be a moble vehical command unit or maybe a fire controle platform

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Let me refrase the scout it dont fight it co-ordinate's the units maybe evaluate there performance and can base new tactics off the information to be auto used.


so basicly the scout will be a lot more usefull.

It could have a direct link to the RCC(Robot command center)
and when observing a match it lost it could come up with new statagy to win.
or if its patroling it could call some attack units to it if it detects enamys.


(please close the other thread if you whant.)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 02:45:46 AM by DarekStar »
-Darek

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Offline Hidiot

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 02:53:05 AM »
As I understand it, the presence of the Scout would make your army better coordinated by the AI,right?

That's not such a bad idea, and I would go further as to suggesting that when a Scout is watching over a part of your army, you could send more advanced behavior orders via that scout to your army.
Clicking a Scout should highlight the units it influences somehow, and units influenced should have something to indicate they're being influenced (when selected or with mouse over maybe).
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Offline Leviathan

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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 05:16:49 AM »
Sounds good. I look forward to seeing this :)

Offline Freeza-CII

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 10:30:28 PM »
All the vecs have a direct line to the RCC its all done by Sat or just through the air.  Putting it through a scout would cause a communications bottle neck.

Offline DarekStar

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 04:24:53 AM »
Ah but what im sugesting is a Dedicated system like for a certain group of vehicals and taticical analises from another angle.

You can have all the data from the current vehicals but its better to have a bigger sheet if info from an observing vehical.
-Darek

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Offline Sirbomber

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2007, 07:21:24 AM »
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and when observing a match it lost it could come up with new statagy to win.
or if its patroling it could call some attack units to it if it detects enamys.
If a Scout loses a battle it's probably dead. I don't see how it could then analyze its death to prevent it from happening in the future.  Also, I doubt you'd be able to find a counter-strategy to 100 Tigers charging through your front door.

And I don't want my precious combat units risking themselves to save a Scout.  My Command Center, yes.  A Scout?  No.

Edit: Oh, yes. Let's look at this logically. Which will be able to better control a bunch of vehicles: an entire structure with several (perhaps hundreds of) advanced AIs guiding the vehicles, or one puny hunk of metal with a Windows 98 on board?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 10:53:58 AM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Freeza-CII

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2007, 11:18:35 AM »
The name scout means its going to go looking at things and observing not a support vehicle.  Purely a cheap expendable unit that can scan for units and what you have in your colony.  Besides the weapons we have in the game dont really need a forward look out or a forward fire control.  All of these weapons have a a s*** load of savants behind them at the colony there isnt much a scout is going to beable to add.

Offline Sirbomber

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2007, 11:25:40 AM »
The only way a Scout could possibly be useful (other than by Scouting things) is if there was some kind of long range sniper/artillery unit that could shoot farther than its sight range. But I don't think a unit's sight range limits its weapon's ability to shoot in Outpost 2 (yes, I know we're talking about Outpost 3...).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 11:25:58 AM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Fenrisul

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2007, 01:10:09 AM »
Scouts + Artillery = good.  C&C3 demonstrated that one;  it was worthwhile.

Also - perhaps another vehicle all together for "Command"?  Adds a certain accuracy % or some such.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2007, 08:27:31 PM »
The only problem with that is no one really wants artillery in op3.

Offline Sirbomber

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2007, 09:05:39 PM »
Why do people have trouble accepting units for what they are? Suddenly Scouts aren't good enough being just Scouts.  Suddenly they have to have jet engines and Supernovas glued to them.  That is not the Scout's role.  The Scout scans an enemy building, allowing you to learn what your enemy is researching, how much food, people, power, ore, and morale he or she has, and then judge what his or her plan may be from that information.

Come on people, stop beating a dead horse and just leave the poor Scout alone.  Accept it for what it is or don't use it.
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Offline Arklon

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2007, 10:06:00 PM »
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The only problem with that is no one really wants artillery in op3.
Then again, it seems nobody really wants anything that wasn't in OP2 in OP3. Either that, or they want everything that's uber and overpowered to be put in.

But DarekStar, I don't see why you're suggesting this for the third time now (you didn't even change any small details of the concept!) after it's already been shot down the previous times you did.
Edit: Seems you edited your original post and you have changed the idea. But:
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and when observing a match it lost it could come up with new statagy to win.
So you want the game to play itself...?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 10:11:04 PM by Arklon »

Offline Hidiot

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2007, 01:47:52 AM »
Um... the thing with the RCC has always been invoked, but... what if your RCC blew up? Having a few scouts changing their roles to help direct movements as close to the RCC as it can would help a bit...
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Offline DarekStar

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2007, 05:28:37 AM »
Sirbomber to your post the CS is sapost to make managing units easyer as you can assign units to the scout for better management (cence the game might be in 3d this would be good) so you dont lose track of a groop of units.

And the scouts pretty good as it is all other sugestions for improvement aponit that i could thinkof i found and was shot down seems youd prefer a scout that can do nothing but look at things witch makes it pretty usles.

And Arklon this is the 1st time iv sugested this in detail my other one was a miner sugetsion for youguys to maybe take and grow.

Iv never built a scout unless i was gona be using em to see what my enamy is doing.

(and i know my spellings atrosious live with it)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2007, 05:34:04 AM by DarekStar »
-Darek

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Offline Arklon

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2007, 03:03:41 PM »
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seems youd prefer a scout that can do nothing but look at things witch makes it pretty usles.
Better than a scout that plays the game for you.

Offline Freeza-CII

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2007, 08:44:19 PM »
Well If my RCC blew up it would be for a couple of reasons.

1 Enemy Nova it.  And it must have been next to the CC which was the nova target because no one cares enough about the RCC to target it.

2 it was next to my tokamak that i didnt repair.

3 It was next to my advanced lab when that exploded.

4 I blew it up to build some thing useful.

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2007, 01:36:53 AM »
Or a disaster hit, you forgot about that...


By the way... why not just make a new unit type, called Command Scout or whatever that will just add a pinch of coordination over what you RCC does, and help replace the RCC if it got destroyed, while it's being rebuilt. You might actually need that in certain circumstances.
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Offline Sirbomber

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2007, 02:15:53 PM »
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Iv never built a scout unless i was gona be using em to see what my enamy is doing.
Uh... That's the entire point of the Scout...? Unless you want to Scout Rush...

I still point out that the Scout's on board computer is comparable to a Windows 98 if you look at the computer power of the RCC.  Scouts don't even have an AI on board.  They wouldn't be able to make the necessary decisions and calculations that a Savant (or a human) can make.
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Offline DarekStar

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2007, 02:50:54 PM »
Thats y the C.S. is special It has a on baurd A.I. dezined to allow it to do special tasks and take some of the pressure of the RCC. and the observing a match thing. have you ever fully upgraded a scout there pretty daim fast, it can get away and if it dies there will be a datta base in the RCC or a data storage facility that will have its observations.
 
-Darek

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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2007, 08:58:07 PM »
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Or a disaster hit, you forgot about that...

Disasters never hit because no one turns them on :P

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take some of the pressure of the RCC

What pressure is on the RCC.  the RCC doesn't work all that great in op2 because of crappy coding (my guess).  The savants aren't going crazy and there not going on strike because they don't have enough booze money.

This vehicle really isnt a scout any way its just a vec that sits around and makes the vecs smarter which is basicly a RCC that can be more easily shot to hell. because it would have a range limit i would guess being that it has a limited power source compared to a building.  Then the question is Is there a need to have a mobile RCC or just keep the RCC the way it is and just have it work the way its suppose to.

Offline Sirbomber

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2007, 09:26:18 PM »
Savants are hard to come by as it is. They're not going to waste them on a fragile vehicle when they could just build an RCC to handle ALL vehicles instead of just a handful of units that happen to be within range of the laptop on wheels.
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Offline DarekStar

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2007, 02:54:16 PM »
there are no more savents i think they were left on new terra wernt they.

being said they would need new A.Is


they can amke A.I,s and make 1 for a scout
-Darek

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Offline Arklon

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2007, 04:20:16 PM »
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there are no more savents i think they were left on new terra wernt they.

being said they would need new A.Is


they can amke A.I,s and make 1 for a scout
Uh, no, only Frost and the ones destroyed in the original Eden and Plymouth colonies weren't taken with them.
We don't need a useless scout that does the same thing that the RCC does when we already have the RCC which doesn't require you to keep a flimsy vehicle near your units, and we certainly don't need one that makes the unit AI basically play the game for you.

Offline Hidiot

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2007, 03:16:14 AM »
That's why I suggested making a new unit for the sole purpose of trying to salvage some (not all) regional coordination when your RCC gets blown by who knows what...

Sure, mostly useless, but there are certain situations, like when you want your trucks to go the fastest route to your mine and back to the smelter (mostly campaign... you usually build your smelter next to the mine), so you can get as much ore as possible as soon as possible. That can make the difference in some fights for example.

Oh well... anyone up for making a synthesis for all the +'s and -'s here? I have a feeling we're all missing at least something.  
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Offline Hooman

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C.s. (command Scout)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2007, 07:26:29 AM »
This seems pretty pointless. Just adds pointless confusion and complexity without adding anything to the gameplay. Sort of like having evac transports in standard colony and multi games.

I think everything put into a game should have a clear and useful purpose in the game. Having some rare case, where it might do something, but not a whole lot, is not reason enough to add it to the game.

I think people realize that when they see the scout, and how little use it usually has in practice, and want to do something about it. But these suggestions just don't seem to actually add value to the scout. What might add a little more value, is if the game had something along the lines of fog of war. But even then, that still doesn't seem to be adequate justifaction for the scout.


Perhaps some consideration of the scout and the observer in Starcraft might help put things in perspective. The scout was fast, had long sight range, but was also actually armed. Pretty decent too for air-to-air. It also wasn't too bad defensively either. It was basically your standard military unit, that could also serve reasonably well as a scout. The observer however had cloaking ability. Letting you actually keep an eye on your enemy without them actually knowing it. It also served as a detector to counter the enemy's cloak. Plus, having fog of war made them actually useful as advanced lookouts for attacks. Basically the nature of the game actually gave them real value. You don't get that same value from the scouts in Outpost. Particularly since if you can make it into their base with a scout, you can probably have made it in there with a lynx and actually do some damage. Why bother check what they're researching when you can kill their lab and stop their research?

If you can't justify having the scout with it's unique abilities, then maybe consider merging those abilities with another unit. There are always ways to balance the units, but putting in useless units makes for a shoddy game.