Author Topic: Expanded Combat  (Read 3638 times)

Offline Betaray

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« on: July 18, 2006, 05:32:46 PM »
one of the main criticisms of op2 is that the combat system seems "tacked on" it has a very detailed and enriched colony building system, but for combat you only hve 3 basic chassis equal to both sides

perhaps units that arn't pure combat but would still find a place on the battlefield, more logistics baised, their presence would enhance your units fighting capeability while decreaseing the enemys

just start throwing out ideas
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 07:27:40 PM »
Like a spellcaster? Well, we can't have a medic... Mobile Power Generator? Can enhance a vec's power and give it more damage or shields/many vecs power/shields (but less of an extent), or drain power from other vecs? (Less power/slow down?)
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Offline croxis

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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 08:34:14 PM »
There could be a beacon unit, which extends visibility further than a scout.

If shielding technology is used (if so, should be end game, probably a point after which most games end...?), there could be a mobile shield generator.

Some kind of command unit which augments the RCC, maybe adds some tracking and damage bonuses.

A repair drone is in Op2, but if it isn't used then it should be more useful.

Earth worker a bulldozer could make/destroy dirt encampments and barriers.

Could have ECM and ECCM units to inhibit bad guy units and block inhibiting.


Good idea to help make the game more tractical, but it can be easy to get carried away :)
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Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 08:55:16 PM »
Perhaps goes a bit with customizing weapons, but perhaps allow different forms of weapons. Ex: EMP in the ESG mines, self destruct stickyfoam, who knows.

An idea someone had before, mounting of turrets directly onto structures.

Another place for major overhaul is in the command system itself. Unlike many other games OP2 doesn't have very sophisticated combat unit controls. For example, you can't easily tell it to just 'follow' a unit, you have to use attack which might not be what you want. Grouping is kinda clumsy, you can use the number hotkeys to assign vehicle groups but IMHO it should be more like the original AoE grouping worked: you select a bunch of units and push "group." Then, when you click one of the units in this group, all of the grouped units are selected.

Adding onto selections, there should be a way to deselect units or types of units (rather than just saying '30 units selected', give the player a list and let them deselect a certain type).

Another 'useful' feature might be something like rally points from a factory. Multiple unit queuing might be a nice feature but it can be overused (perhaps allow it turned on/off as an option, off by default).

Offline CK9

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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 09:01:33 PM »
well, beta, what do you think a scout is?  One of the best uses for scouts is detecting where your opponent is going to attack from.  I remember back in WON when people played more of the big maps, I would sometimes have scouts spaced out all around, encompasing my base with large groups of attack units evenly spaced behind the scout line.  when someone tried to attack, I would get the enemy units sighted message, press the spacebar, and see where they are coming from.  The closest groups would then be moved to intercept the enemy units.  Of course, I haven't used that stratedgy in a long time, too few people who are still within the skill levels that it was most effective against.
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Offline Tramis

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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 09:50:55 PM »
A very long range attack that is very inaccurate, but gains accuracy if it has a Scout to spot for it - Artillery!

A mobile bridge maybe?

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2006, 01:34:26 PM »
Quote
Of course, I haven't used that stratedgy in a long time, too few people who are still within the skill levels that it was most effective against.
I'm not sure what that means...
Was that a compliment or an insult?

But back on topic:
How about something for Eden that's basically a Long-Range Spider? Once a vec is EMPed it can hide behind your other vecs while it takes over the enemy.
It wouldn't be fair if it didn't have some weakness to compensate though, so it's range is just outside an RPG's. That way it can still be killed, but you won't be able to just rush in and kill it without getting hit by any vehicles defending it (Unless you have Thor's I suppose). Also, it will be expensive (800 C, 350 R? SOmething like that.) and you won't be able to build 3-packs.

So while it's more efficient than a Spider, it's also much more expensive, takes longer to build a lot of them, has no repair capabilities, and isn't EMP-shielded. Meaning Spiders could take it over (making them potentially useful in combat).

Oh, that actually made me think: What if Spiders and Repair Vecs could disable EMP? On buildings at least, preferably vecs too.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 01:35:12 PM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Tramis

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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 01:54:04 PM »
Naw, the whole thing about the difference between the two sides is Plymouth got Spiders, edens got big bad gunz.  To balance that, youd have to give Plymouth big bad gunz, and then both sides would basically be the same.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 05:57:20 PM »
Plymouth's... "big bad gunz"... is going to be Freeza's little X-Ray cannon I thought? Everyone seems to like it so much, why not actually use it? Of course, it can't be anywhere near as powerful as Thor's Hammer.

And I've never seen anybody use Spiders for capturing, except out of boredom, because it doesn't work. That's what Thor's Hammer (ESG works too if you're Plym) is for.

Edit: The X-Ray thing is Freeza's, right? I'm losing track of things...
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 05:57:44 PM by Sirbomber »
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Offline Stormy

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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 06:15:30 PM »
Quote
well, beta, what do you think a scout is?  One of the best uses for scouts is detecting where your opponent is going to attack from.  I remember back in WON when people played more of the big maps, I would sometimes have scouts spaced out all around, encompasing my base with large groups of attack units evenly spaced behind the scout line.  when someone tried to attack, I would get the enemy units sighted message, press the spacebar, and see where they are coming from.  The closest groups would then be moved to intercept the enemy units.  Of course, I haven't used that stratedgy in a long time, too few people who are still within the skill levels that it was most effective against.
I use a similar method now ... I learned it from Highlander or someone...


Edit: Your idea about those vehicles disabling the EMP sounds really cool in my oppinion.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 06:16:58 PM by Stormy »
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2006, 10:39:47 AM »
I like bombers idea...we actually agree on something for once, lol
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 03:52:31 AM »
with the Use of sats you wouldnt need a foreward look out scout for a long shot weapon like artillery or Sniper direct line weapon.


ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) devices.  Have only ever seem to be used to evading radar and missile confusion.  The break the ECM it either stronger transmittions heat tracking or Opticalical guided that means Laser or manually flown. Also GPS guilded.  of course that is missiles.  I would only see ECM on a scout so it could sneak around more easy.


Yes the Xray is my idea

I had origonally planned the weapon to be a rival to the thors hammer maybe not spot on the same amount of stopping power because it would be a Beam style weapon like the Microwave only more powerful and longer range.

http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=2963
Eden's answer to to plymouth's spiders ^^

[/QUOTE] Naw, the whole thing about the difference between the two sides is Plymouth got Spiders, edens got big bad gunz. To balance that, youd have to give Plymouth big bad gunz, and then both sides would basically be the same.
Quote

The thing about technology is if it works good you want to copy it or make some thing simular.  Example the space race between USA and Russia.  This is can also be applied with tools of war.  Nukes for one are a example.  They make a rocket or missile we make a counter a anti missile.  or we make a missile and hit there missiles first.

Long range taking over of vecs doesnt seems very good.  Dont try to make the game easier to play.  That will make it boring.

I dont know about sheilds though they seem to generic kinda like a Gamma Laser death ray.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 06:39:04 AM »
i dunno about the xray weapon. xrays would cook the occupant but the rest would be reflected by the skin of the vehicle. thats why theyre used in medicine, xrays only penetrate very thin amounts of matter and flesh and are reflected or absorbed by metals. even with a massive energy source, xrays would take many minutes to even make the target warm. the most destructive xrays i know of are in cosmology and good luck trying to reproduce that amount of energy.

xrays, gamma rays, ____ rays are plenty deadly to humans but when shot from somthing small enough to be mounted on a vehicle, they wouldnt do much to a mechanism. even lasers would take many dozens of hits to punch thru even a few inches or metal (and wouldnt look anything like what we are used to seeing in popular media) microwaves would cause electrical arcing in a mechanism but that would make it more like an EMP than a microwave. same thing with xrays.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2006, 09:19:18 AM »
Mind you, that gamma rays could potentially damage non biological components after a while.

UV, X-rays, gamma rays all are considered 'ionizing radiation', that is they can break chemical bonds and actually damage things.

Hence how UV tends to fade things. Of course it takes a very long time to do anything.

However, things like gamma rays might prove interesting as a weapon, since you could damage the boptronic unit more easily if you bombarded the vehicle with gamma rays for a long time.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2006, 01:24:32 PM »
The Microwave weapon that plymouth uses would cook people do but they compressed it  into a beam of destruction.  I thought of doing the same thing only using powerful magnets to compress the Xray into the beam of destruction.  Not just simply turning on a Xray machine on a vec.

The only reason i didnt use Gamma Rays is there too Generic.  Like the mad scientist has the Gamma Death Ray.  

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2006, 01:28:20 PM »
Here's an idea.. how about you can cut a hole in someone's tube and either a) just let all the air out (explosive decompression)
or b) put in something bad like nerve gas or something worse (alpha particles anyone?)

Maybe other things where you can use the environment to your advantage. (redirect lava flow, add something to a fumarole or magma vent that makes it either unusable or turns it into some sort of 'mini volcano')

Maybe something that generates an electrical storm? (think cloud seeding as is done in the US)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 01:28:35 PM by op2hacker »