Cargo Lander

[Tramis]

I smell a whole new gametype - each player chooses what to load their starship with, lands on the planet, and builds their colony from the beginning, and plays to a certain outcome from there).  I too liked in OP1 where it let you start from the beginning rather than just start off a few years later.

[Freeza-CII]

Remember your physics tho if you want some thing that going to be super heavy to take off youll need either a Orbital elevator (Huge f***ing elevator) or A launch force that would rival a small star exploding.

oh yes before i forget dont give me any s*** about the god damn ION DRIVE there only ment to be used in SPACE not for f***ing lift offs and landing.  

[croxis]

Aye, I think it would be a great option to have avalable.  One oculd also tie it to difficulty setting, hard setting means there is less room and money avalable for initial loadout.

[croxis]

Didn't Op1 have a mass driver?  That could be brought back as well as an alternative.  Someoen mentioned there are going to be more factions in this game, maybe they could use it instead of a launch base?

[Freeza-CII]

Orbital Elevator and Mass Driver are basicly the same thing But for the Weight that is talked about here it would be f***ing huge

[croxis]

Oh right, I forgot what was origionally talked about =P

Payloads would have to be smaller, yes I agree.

[Chandler]

The SLVs and RLVs in OP2 can take 10000 ore. Use something close to that as a payload. i.e. A Laser Lynx costs say 300 ore (I can't remember exactly). Therefore it takes up 300 "ore" of space.

So, you basically can take 1 Laser lynx and 9700 ore.
A convec costs, say, 500, and a CC 2800
Now you can take a CC in a Convec, 1 Laser lynx and 6400 ore.
etc. etc. etc.

Sure - take 33 lynx, but then you can't build anything...

Edit: Added that this calculation is from OP2 - payloads may be bigger, etc...

[Freeza-CII]

you need a Structure Fact to build things a CC just wont cut it.  And there is no way you could know the weight or the Vecs and the Construction packs But you have to assume that the Ore and Food units go in Tons. But the Take off of the RLV And SLV are rockets not Ion drives for sure.

[croxis]

hmmm.

Mass might be something to add to the game in general as it could be used for a lot of different things from payload launch to unit physics.

[Tramis]

I agree with that - ie you shoot a Lynx with a laser it only damages it, you detonate a starflare next to it, it flips over, you shoot a Tiger with a laser it only damages it, you detonate a starflare it only damages it, you detonate a Supernova it knocks the unit onto its back

[Freeza-CII]

Uh i dont think a super nova has that kinda power to lift a tank off the ground thats some only the biggest bombs can do.  For every reaction there is a opposite but equal reaction.  For a tiger to be lifted and rolled the explosion its self eould have to be equal to or greater then the force required to lift the tiger past the point of no return.  I dont think having such a complex physics is needed at all.  Those kind physic should only be used in FPS and any kind of racing game or sim

[Chandler]

I agree with Freeza. How many RTS games do you see with physics THAT complex. However, some physics should be put in (ie a tiger can't go as fast uphill as a lynx, but a tiger can climb steeper hills than a lynx)

[TH300]

yea, we want to keep physics simulation as limited as possible.

Its not at all suitable for an RTS. Imagine that the engine will have to render about 500 tanks in some cases, PLUS calculate paths and behaviour.
If we included physics the game would probably only run on high-end comps which many people don't have.

[omagaalpha]

The SLVs and RLVs in OP2 can take 10000 ore. Use something close to that as a payload. i.e. A Laser Lynx costs say 300 ore (I can't remember exactly). Therefore it takes up 300 "ore" of space.

So, you basically can take 1 Laser lynx and 9700 ore.
A convec costs, say, 500, and a CC 2800
Now you can take a CC in a Convec, 1 Laser lynx and 6400 ore.
etc. etc. etc.

Sure - take 33 lynx, but then you can't build anything...

Edit: Added that this calculation is from OP2 - payloads may be bigger, etc...

another ore take less space so more can fit in easly so can't see have thatmany more like 10
for need at beginning
4 convex(factory, comand center, commone smelter, power source)
bulldozer
4 cargo truck (2 1000 food, 2 1000 common )
miner
earthworm
survey

also topic kindya gone offtopic lol

Question obvously seem that ion drive do not work for lauching if you want go on realism. So question what would be closer realism engine for porpelling it? How space around lunch pad for spaceport need for this so it can acuraler save space for it need form lunching it?

 

[Shadowcrystal_SG_CMD]

Honestly, I can say I REALLLY LOVE TO SEE THIS Idea in place in a multiplayer game where you can bring what you want with you when u do a game, Like a advanced land rush because you can choose where you want to go and land it there. also Remember the Seed factory used some metals but also you guys got to remember the PLASTICS, The hard plastics, and the soft plastics, cause not all units in the game used heavy metal youd think that Eden and Plymouth used plastics where they could to cut down on ore use, so a starting convec could use alot more plastics in the game so that they could cut down on the weight and ore use in exchange for durablity and longlitivy, however a tank or lynx you just cant get around using the metals cause its a tank, and no one wants to say well, I need a plastic tank, HAHHAAH, yah...., :-P, (be me tho to kill those rats) but you rly only need One convec and a seed factory that stores the struture kits, to build them one by one, CC first, Then Ore, Then Struc, Then from the struc factory u build everything else , Simple ,

Also on a different note, Why not be able to use the starship as a orbital platform you know in multiplayer and single player games for something like loading stuff onto the starship like ore and stuff and u can build a factory on it to drop in reinforcements or something, or non military units, idk, i just think that u should be able to use ur starship for something rather then leaving it to rot in space and eventaly die when it starts to go into a unstable orbit even tho the fusion drives could stablize it nicely

[Freeza-CII]

Units would not be made of plastics.  They need to be durable and the weapons would just go right through them and BOOM INSTA KILL.  plastic is for sports cars.

[BlackBox]

yea, we want to keep physics simulation as limited as possible.

Its not at all suitable for an RTS. Imagine that the engine will have to render about 500 tanks in some cases, PLUS calculate paths and behaviour.
If we included physics the game would probably only run on high-end comps which many people don't have.

Yes, physics would need to be kept as simple as possible.

The most would probably be where Chandler said, a tiger is slower than a lynx but can negotiate steeper terrain.

The engine is already going to be pumping out polygons left and right as yes there could easily be 500 units on screen, but don't forget other stuff like the terrain itself, and any effects (smoke, environmental effects).

There's no real gain to using a full blown physics engine in an RTS anyway, just extra bloat (of both size and speed).

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As for plastics, where could they get the resources to make plastics? Unless they find underground oil reserves like on earth it probably isn't going to happen - the game makes no mention of oil reserves.

I could see them using plastics for the more basic units since they didn't need them to be shielded against weapons (that wasn't till later that weapons buildup started happening, and then they needed protection).

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As far as the amount of material you can load into a rocket, it's got to be size limited. You only have so much physical room in the rocket. One way I could see of doing this is kinda like the game Starcraft, where they have a grid to show what's inside a dropship. The grid is subdivided into 8 squares I believe. Small units take up 1 square, medium sized units take up 2 squares, large units take up 4 squares. This means you could fit 8 small units (like SCVs - again this is a starcraft example), 4 medium units (vultures, goliaths), or 2 large units (tanks), as well as any combination of these.

(Not that I'm saying it needs to be like starcraft) but that is how they space limited the cargo amount. Of course it's not that realistic since they assume a fixed size-to-weight ratio, so OP3 could choose to have it go by weight instead (or a combination of the two).

All I'm saying is, I'm sure that a tiger takes up more room than a scout. A limitation like this also prevents people from abusing the lander size to drop massive military force all over the map (for example they might be able to do research to drop the metals cost of the tiger, lowering its weight) -- but the tiger wouldn't actually get any smaller in size. Thus don't expect to load more tigers on after it gets made cheaper.

[croxis]

You could make the game require those new physics cards

[Shadowcrystal_SG_CMD]

A limitation like this also prevents people from abusing the lander size to drop massive military force all over the map (for example they might be able to do research to drop the metals cost of the tiger, lowering its weight) -- but the tiger wouldn't actually get any smaller in size. Thus don't expect to load more tigers on after it gets made cheaper.



You know that sounds like a good idea cause if u have those grids plus weight it will rly limit alot. cause if u only pack military and one builder ur going to screw urself over cause u need those mining buildings and miners and cargo trucks and all those other units . so

[Betaray]

the one thing I can think of this being used for is for people to land a bunch of nova's eather right on top of, or right outside your base, kind of a cheap kill in my book

[Freeza-CII]

yes like one per spaceport

[croxis]

Units could also sustain damage from such a landing and/or be frozen for a good few seconds after field deployment.  You could explain that with the rough landing, the vehicle AI need recalibration or whatever -- as far as gameplay it will help balance things out.

Another idea is to have a launch warning when a cargo lander is launched and maybe even a trajectory projection of where it could land that would get more accurate the closer the lander is to landing.  This can be improved with tech, satellites, and the observatory structure.  Maybe the eden meteor laser could have a chance of shooting it down?

[Freeza-CII]

Since you have to deploy them one at a time i think you would have the problem of them just being mass raped on exit. or the Lander itself being EMPed.

That is the one thing that makes me think this idea isnt good its a Air unit in a Outpost game Airunits are definatly not op2 that is for sure and if op3 is to reflect apon op2 and op1 then i dont think a air unit of any kind is good.  The SULV and RLV are space vecs.

[Shadowcrystal_SG_CMD]

I thought we where only going to use this though at the start of the game as a way to allow ppl to customize what they want to land on the planent but it would be nice to be able to use the starship as a crutch for the colony, like u can use it for something...

[omagaalpha]

Personal against usually military vehicle in cargo lander.  Don't think we should use as miiltiy vehicle in lander peroid.
Maybe non military vehicle like for move convecs and cargo truck and supply to other bases or  new areas .