Author Topic: Outpost Solar System  (Read 13110 times)

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2005, 02:16:59 PM »
i dont think all the planets have a good alinment.  I have the numbers of there Angles some where. Pluto and the 10th object planetoid have the more extreme angles and are very eliptical.  

Plus some planets go the opposit direction on there orbits then earth to.  Which is why planetary planet alingments dont happen very often.

They always have the perfect look in books and such but they always put pluto on the right one.

Offline TRIX Rabbit

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« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2005, 03:43:45 PM »
accualy it is possible to have a star with two distinct cores (tho its unlikely) the two binary sters must expand beyond their respective 'roche lobes' and the plasma will connect the two. however, if the two stars arent a nearperfect distace from each opther,   the 'star' will go supernova, exceeding the solar mass limit. or they will just diffuse and become 2 stars again. it is possible because the helium in the cores wont mix with the shellar hydrogen. the helium sinks to the bottom (unless there is a heavyer element in the core)

at least thats how the textbook i got from school says

2 planets sharing the same orbit is feasible, since 3 of saturns moons share the same orbit at exactly 60deg from each other. Telsto, then 60deg later, Tethys, then Calypso all share the same orbit and never collide.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2005, 04:35:41 PM »
Grrr.... Tethys, the bane of my existance. Its game never wants to work right.  ;)

Anyways, yeah, I have no idea what anybody is talking about anymore, so I'm jsut saying from now on I'm not saying anything else here. Toodles.
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Offline Betaray

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« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2005, 05:01:11 PM »
the main reasion why the planets orbit on the same plane and in the same direction is because all the planets condenced from the same cloud of gas, and the gas was spinning, the reasion why they are in the same plane is because the gasd would have its own gravity, keeping the gas from disapating (this also makes the planets and the sun) with the gas spinning, it would greate a gyroscopic effect that would flatten it into a disk, this would also make the gas dencer, thus increasing the gravity untill it condences into planets

pluto was probly a large icatoid that got caught in the suns gravity, so thats why it dosnt orbit on the same plane
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2005, 12:39:18 AM »
Tethys is a moon around Saturn.

doesnt mean that they all are on the same plane i think most are at a angle of 5 degrees ours being 0 so we have a 0 point to go by.  Most of them are 5 - 10 degrees.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2005, 04:25:20 PM »
that moon could be a capured comet

and of corse with all these huge masses and their gravatitional fields over billions of years the orbits cant stay that stable, discrepences have to occer
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2005, 09:21:03 PM »
Considering the speed of a comet i dont think it would be.  Most likely a rouge asteroid that was tossed out of orbit by Jupiter.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2005, 09:25:53 PM »
you never know, the comets that we have now are there because they moved fast enough that they didnt get captured, back when the solar system was formed, there must have been slower moving comets that got captured and turned into moons
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2005, 09:28:26 PM »
Yes but comets are big hunck of Ice.  Plus there not sphereical.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2005, 09:32:30 PM »
alot of the smaller moons arnt spereical, take Mar's two moons for example

now I admit I did not look up that particular moon, so it might not have been a comit, it might just be a chunk of rock so big that its gravity made itself a sphere
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2005, 10:33:22 PM »
The making of a sphere usually happens when the rock starts to cool and makes a gravitational field.  

Mars does have 2 irregual shaped more Demos Phobes.  I dont know how these could be comets.  Mars doesnt have as strong as gravitational feild as earth.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2005, 10:40:01 PM »
not all of them would be comets, astroids can be captured as well comits would evaporate if they were captured by Mars

your right about planets becoming sphereical while they are liquid, but it would be possible for them to become sphereical after they have formed

getting hit by other astroids, the energy of the impact if severe enough would liquify the mass and allow it to reform, that is how the moon was made, the astroid that hit earth probly wasnt sphereical, but when it hit earth it liquified, and much of it went back into space, where it cooled into the sphere that we know
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2005, 10:57:23 PM »
Yes that is possible for the impact to do that.  There are asteroids that are fused together and look like a figure 8.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2005, 11:09:05 PM »
yea with all that stuff flying around, what couldn't happon?
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2005, 11:23:39 PM »
Nothing couldnt happen lol

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2005, 12:41:18 AM »
exactly lol
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Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2005, 12:48:49 AM »
but if nothing did happen would we really know if we did or not

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2005, 12:57:59 AM »
would we know nothing? yes I bet alot of people know nothing
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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2005, 05:55:05 AM »
whoa. lots to cover here.... hmm. okay, here we go....

We know next to nothing about the inner workings of stars, much less how likely (or unlikely) rare core arrangements occur. that being the case, we look to akham's razor. there is not reason in physics why 2 cores that behave like a fluid (plasma to be precise) would retain seperate and distinct boundaries while maintaining a unified and cooperative co-arrangement. my analogy still stands: when you throw a cup of water into the ocean, you never see a cup-shaped chunk of water floating out to sea. they merge and become one structure. since we know so little about the inner workings of a star and nothing about their core, the structure could take on any number of forms. however, thru your wording you make it sound as though the two cores would be effectively indestructible and instead of joining into one system (with any myriad structure arrangement), would remain seperate yet joined in close proximity. even basic physics calls this an impossibility. when two stars collide (no matter what 'speed' they are moving toward eachother at) they always explode; in that their structures are torn apart and scattered in the local area. they eventually coalasce into a single star. if i take two cars and grind them into chunks the size of a postage stamp and then throw them into a ditch, i dont get a fully formed vehicle with two distinct and whole engines under the hood. this applies to stars as well. no part of a star is solid, so when a star is torn apart, the core goes with it. the core of a star is simply an area of plasma that is under different temperature and pressure tolerances, nothing more. the name "core" does not denote a firm (solid), material object but merely defines a boundary. there is no such thing as a star with two cores, period. stellar cores cannot migrate cohesively in the process of a stellar collision.

comets can be captured and are not entirely ice and gas. several moons of saturn and jupiter are thought to be comets. comets are a fact of existance in the universe and do not "go away" or even "lessen" over time. there is no speed limit for comets. the only thing that distinguishes a comet from an asteroid is that asteroids are typically more metallic than rocky. comets are typically composed more out of an aggregate of metals, rock, frozen gas and ice. a few thousand miles per hour makes little difference when something is hurtling thru space at 40,000 mph.

the orbits of the planets in our solar system vary greatly. pluto oscillates at up to a 30 degree angle from the solar plane. uranus sometimes does at up to 18 degrees. all the planets in the solar system have "irregular" orbits in that none of them would lie on top of eachother if you stuck them all the same distance from the sun. the earth does this as well. there is no such thing as a perfect orbit. all orbits are elliptical. that is a scientific fact that most highschool science teachers leave out of the lesson plan. those that say that the 'default' orbit type is a circle are uninformed, uneducated, ignorant or just plain silly. circular orbits can and sometimes do occur but only in specific circumstances and never in a solar system with a single star and multiple satellites.

gravity can shape planets of larger masses, but moons are often shaped largely by impacts. since smaller celestial objects often lack sufficient mass to properly "smooth" the surface or correct for areas of varying density, they are often left misshapen.

Offline CK9

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« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2005, 09:42:03 AM »
but horus, I can mix two cups of water into a bigger container and know which every bit came from :P
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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #70 on: December 12, 2005, 09:59:32 AM »
thats totally a yes and no answer.

but its still much more no than yes.

if you mix up two cups of water they dont stay seperated or defined as seperate. they mix up into one. just like the core of a star. stellar cores cannot behave that way.

no matter how much youd like it to, two masses of plasma combine and mix (are evenly distributed into eachother) upon collision. areas of the core can be arranged in defined lobes depending upon circulation and density, but they are not seperate of the core. i think maybe youre reading something wrong. or at least approaching the issue with such a broad stance that any idea you have is "sort of" right depending upon how you look at it.

taking your original comment literally, what you claim is impossible in physics.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 10:05:50 AM by dm-horus »

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #71 on: December 12, 2005, 11:39:50 AM »
2 become 1 that is it :P

wow that wasnt so hard to say

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #72 on: December 12, 2005, 02:23:37 PM »
and none of that above contradicted anything I said lol
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #73 on: December 12, 2005, 02:33:10 PM »
I think there is a screw driver in orbit of earth lol
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 02:33:23 PM by Freeza-CII »

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #74 on: December 12, 2005, 03:12:39 PM »
probly lol, near earth space is filled with debries like that
I am the nincompoop, I eat atomic bombs for breakfest, fusion bombs for lunch, and anti-matter bombs for dinner

I just hope they don't explode