Author Topic: Research  (Read 10301 times)

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« on: November 27, 2005, 06:26:04 PM »
Thread for research releated topics.

Currently my question is should you be able to give research to a player?

If you could in your sector you could allocate research out to players and you could work as a group to tech up. Also maybe you could have one player focusing on research :o

And maybe steal research?

Any more ideas? Such as research?

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4952
Research
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 11:55:31 PM »
I like the idea of being able to work in groups to tech up, but I also like the idea of building up on my own and not getting trashed by a gang of bullies. I also don't like being seriously ahead of someone in tech and having it stolen from me. But stealing tech does add a nice dimension to things.

Maybe limit tech stealing to only those techs that are slightly ahead of what you have. That way people can't leap forward super quick. Also, maybe limit the tech sharing, so instead of just giving it to other people, they'd have to "analyse and digest" the material. So it might take say, half the time to research it?

Working in groups should be beneficial, but only fractionally so. That's especially important if teams are formed of unequal size.
 

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2005, 01:54:51 AM »
I love that idea of analyse and digest the researsh. You would have to assign scientists to it and use up a lab.

Good point. In SK there is some research and each player has to research it. But this is the outpost world.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2005, 02:36:35 AM »
Research should cost some money or ore and the Scientists.  Stealing research should be done by the scout.  But it would only have a success percentage based on how many attack or defence units the base that you want to steal from has.  Research should be alot like op2 in where you have to do one to unlock another or more.

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2005, 03:21:05 AM »
Yes. Research with a tree view of chorse.

As for attacks and stealing research im unsure currently if ill just have attacks or have attacks and other type of missions also like in SK. Such as steal resourses or kill people.

My current idea is that each attack you carry out you can set a mission for it also. So the attack would happen and also scouts or wutevea would carry out mission on the attack such as inftrate cololny and steal research. So the sucess would be based on the attack.

But this way you woudlnt be able to carry out lots of missions because you have to attack each time so its prolly best to seprate them as well as being able to carry them out in attacks.

And there has to be ways to increase defence from raids, missions etc.

Ideas?

Offline BlackBox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
Research
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2005, 02:05:31 PM »
Maybe the way to steal research would have to be something like stealing a lab, or a group of scientists or something.

Because think of it this way.. the actual "research" is either contained in the scientists' minds or on papers/data disks/etc that are probably stored in the lab.

And in the OP2 campaign isn't there a mission where you get scientists out of the lab into a transport?

Offline dm-horus

  • Banned
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1042
Research
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2005, 05:21:14 PM »
considering the structure concept lev suggested, i dont know how it would be possible to steal a lab if it is basically a "room" inside this megastructure. youd have to capture the entire thing to get the lab and even then, it would be inside the enemy base. it wouldnt be yours for long and certainly not long enough to be of use unless you had a heavily fortified force capable of holding the area. perhaps if a lab is captured, the research options for that lab are made available to you but only for a limited time independant of whether or not the lab is "recaptured". this would simulate the fact that as hacker said, stolen documents would now be in your posession and the scientists present at that lab would now be controlled by you. but considering that they would either be killed, not cooperate or just die of natural causes (sci deaths per mark?) the knowledge they have would only last so long.

would it be possible to have certain research topics that are available ONLY when an enemy lab has been captured? this would simulate cross-over technology that arises when two types of research are brought together. this would make capturing an enemy lab a real goal for some players, as it is in op2 and the novella. but it wouldnt make the effect permanent. because the research fades, labs would have to be captured more than once to complete and the target of the capture would be able to recover and maybe not be so vulnerable the next time :P

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2005, 05:29:51 PM »
nice ideas.

ok i think the best way to do this is to have strike teams...

these would be transport vehicles which soldiers (time to sacrifice colonists for the greater good ;)) would be in, they would also have little vehicles which would drive down corridors killing enemies and blowing open doors etc. you could send this to enemy labs to infiltrate them and steal research and they get out with it.

lets say that once research is done the data is taken out of the labs and moved to the command center. that would mean if you infiltrate a lab and steal research you could only capture what is currently being researched, and only the % of how much is currently done on that research project. then once back at base you would have to analyse and digest the material before you could continue researching it and finish that research project.

what ya think?

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4952
Research
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2005, 06:43:50 PM »
Umm, I'm still against the idea of soldiers and strike teams. That just not very Outpost like.

Only being able to steal the research that's currently being worked on is a pain. I can just picture people sitting around waiting for research to be nearly complete before going in. Or wasting a bunch of resources attacking only to find they've just started a new research and are nowhere on it.
 

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2005, 06:48:47 PM »
well having the research moved to the cc was just one idea.

what do u think is most realistic?

and if all the research was at the lab would you just be able to steal it all if you infiltrated the lab?

and u dont think u would be able to scout a colony to find out how long is left on there research.

 

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4952
Research
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2005, 06:53:40 PM »
Data encryption. The previous work the scientists were using for their current research will be available unencrypted for the scientists to use in their work. If you raid the lab, you can steal these techs. But most techs will be encrypted at the time of the raid, so you won't be able to steal them. You might also determine the success of the attack based on how "quick" you can get into the lab. Say, maybe they have low defense for that colony.
 

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2005, 12:39:26 AM »
Well i think most data collected by scientists would be stored on some kind of computer or Storage device connected to a computer.  Some thing that a well equiped scout could hack into using the vec control transmittion from the RCC and back tracking up the network.  Yes Yes there would be a bunch things to stop a hack like firewalls and savants.  But there is always a possiblity.

Strike teams dont seem plauseble because a bunch of fleshy targets have to deal with tanks that have bigger guns.  Sure sure they can sneak by all ninja like  :ph34r:   but they are bound to set off some alarm not to mention the scienists would set off that alarm as well and the building could be idled and then there would be no power to the building thus stopping the assault team.  Stick With the Scout that is what it is there for the scout can be Ninja like as well maybe with some kind of basic Stealth upgrade like Iron impregnated paint or some kind of limited range ECM (Electronic Counter Measures).

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2005, 01:10:48 AM »
well i had a think about it and realistically the second a strike team start attacking the building the people in the building would be told to evac and the data on computers would be moved off and then the data in the lab removed. Then even the data connection from the rest of the colonys network could be cut so there is 0 chanch of hacking in and geting any information. Just another feature of the super structures.

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4952
Research
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2005, 03:39:20 AM »
Yeah I think I like Freeza's point about why scouts exist. They should be the ones doing the reconnaisance, not soldiers and strike teams.
 

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2005, 04:36:51 AM »
how exactly do the scouts get or steal data then??

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 11:31:08 AM »
they park next to the building and it magicly downloads into there computer and they drive out of the base like a bat out of hell lol.

Well the scouts have that big ass dish on there roof for some thing i figured it was either for recon and dectection.  Or for stealing info by means of electronic Suvalence. Plus there window blinks when they move lol.

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2005, 12:25:13 PM »
Ill ask again,  How exactly do the scouts get or steal data then? :P

With a strike team at least we know something realistic is happening.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2005, 12:46:24 PM »
hmm perhaps the scout could be the strike teams transport and and you really have to do is park the loaded scout and let them out.

Electronic Survelience is How i see a scout by itself getting infor mation by taping into the tubes that would carry the info to the CC and such

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2005, 01:26:54 PM »
As you have suggested the strike team being transported in a scout, thats what i meant originaly, just it wouldnt be a scout, it would be a more armored vec.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2005, 02:02:21 PM »
I would think you would want some thing that is faster then armored and with the big dish data can be transmittied back to base so you dont have to bring the scout back if you dont want to.  More armor you add the slower your vecs go.

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2005, 02:43:30 PM »
Well i was just thinking there would be a special vehicle which would be the strike team transport vec.

Well can you realy transmit data across the whole planet? Wouldnt you need a satalite in orbit first?


Would be nice if more and other ppl were giveing input!

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2005, 03:06:21 PM »
well concidering this is just a game i would say planetary comunication is possible by on small vec.  Plus some radio waves like AM bounce off the atmosphere and land and can be use for world wide comunication its just a little slower then a sat in orbit.  If you use the transport as your assault force vec that makes the scout utterly useless.

OK i got it the assault team can ride spiders like horses lol

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2005, 04:34:34 PM »
Nah im sure there will be uses for scouts. For one i was thinking you would have to send them with any cargo truck convoys you sent out to make the convoy find a safe path to its destination.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Research
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2005, 04:59:42 PM »
ok as long as the scout isnt useless.  Well I think that is all worked out.

research of a spy sat and it would give you the ability to see how many resources a oppent has so you can guess how many vecs they have or can potenially make.



Maybe having a scout in a group of attack vecs could improve there attack they have because they will see what is coming ahead of time

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Research
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2005, 05:36:55 PM »
Yea sounds good i think, but for a different thread.

And you could send scouts to scout peoples bases like the AI sends scouts thru ur base on colony missions. Not sure what kinda info you could get tho. But scouting peoples bases is a key part of SK and Dom.

As for research of a spy satlite my curent ideas are once u have one you can send it to spy on a colony and that takes so many turns. You can only realy get a number of how many strucutres the colony has at the time of the scan and not the type because most of the structures will look just the same on top. There all in a super structure hull so look more or less the same on the outside. Also with a spy satlite you could get a rough number of how many units they have at the colony at that time (they may have more on a attack mission).

Stay on topic thx.