North Korea

[Hooman]

Anyone with thoughts on North Korea, particularly in regards to the recent death of Kim Jong Il?


Any thoughts on how he was viewed abroad vs. how he was viewed at home?


Any thoughts on it's nuclear weapons program?



Also, since someone brought up the equipment of it's army, I thought this might also be of interest. You can sort the list by numbers if you click on the headers:
Countries By Military Manpower

I find it rather "interesting", shall we say, that North and South Korea rank so disproportionately high when you consider their total population. Interesting, but not much of a surprise considering the Korean war is still officially ongoing. It started in 1950, they signed a ceasefire in 1953, but have yet still not officially ended the war.

North Korea is ranked 2nd for total man power at nearly 9.5 million personnel. For comparison, Russia was ranked 1st, South Korea was ranked 3rd, and the USA was ranked 8th. Note that figure includes reserves, and has some interesting footnotes about those numbers.

If you count only active personnel, than North Korea ranks 4th with 1.1 million personnel. For comparison China ranks 1st, USA 2nd, and India 3rd, with Russia taking 5th, and South Korea 6th.


Two thoughts come to mind, concerning the implication they are badly equipped and with the numbers apparently involved.
1) That's still an awful lot of them.
2) They're people.
 

[CK9]

Thoughts on Il's death:

It's just another person dead.  He was more than likely loved by his family, and therefore I feel bad for their loss.  On the other hand, his diplomatic policies have lead to a lot of tensions and potential dangers, so I am glad the source is gone and hope there will be change for the better.

On the NK military:

During WWII, Germany had the best tech and was kicking ass on the western front.  When they went after Russia, evidence that tech isn't everything was very apparent.  T-34 tanks vs Panzer and Tiger tanks...a lot of the time, the T-34's were just rammed into the German armor.
The manpower can easily make up for the inerior tech.

on the people:

I remember watching a documentry where doctors were allowed into NK to perform surgery for cateracs (sp?).  The camera crew stopped by a family's house to do an interview, and the government made sure there were officials there at all times monitoring what was said.  Then there is the north-south border where all the gaurds are not stationed watching the boarder, but watching eachother.
I think there were people on both sides of the fence, though the repression probably put more on the dislike to loathing side.

[Hooman]

I'm pretty sure he'll be mourned by more than just his family. For any person to control a country, you'd expected them to have the support of at least enough people to keep the government running, and it has, for decades. Plus, with the isolation and state control of the media, it's probably pretty easy to make a large portion of the population love their leader. That would seem to be true whether or not the leader is considered "good" (particularly by foreigners). I'm not sure how long lasting it will be considering the hardships faced by many North Koreans, but I would expect it to last quite a while, especially considering the family is still in control. Those who were too young to be taught to love their leader will also be too young to have learned to hate him. I suspect local sentiment is more likely to fade than reverse.

If you've gone looking for any news on the subject, you'll probably find pictures of quite a few people mourning. I do believe a fair amount of that sentiment is genuine. Particularly considering the political climate. I can also understand people thinking that mourning is misguided, but I don't believe that makes it any less genuine. Perhaps more in question is what kind of numbers are we talking about here? Many of those pictures are of course provided by the state run media, so I suppose that means take them with a grain of salt.


I believe I've heard of that documentary you were talking about. I've never seen it though. I heard after someone had surgery, the first thing they did was thank a picture of the leader on the wall. (I can't remember if it was Kim Jong Il, or his father though). Interesting reaction. The friend that told me about the documentary also went on about how the person was basically blind in the first place because the policies of that leader had prevented adequate medical care from being available that could otherwise have prevented his blindness. But nevertheless, it's an interesting reaction, shall we say.

I've seen a documentary about families between North and South Korea reuniting. It was interesting to note how one of the North Korean's kept thanking the leader for various things. (I also can't remember if it was Kim Jung Il, or his father). It seemed more than a little out of place, both because it really had nothing to do with the leader, and also considering he was talking to some South Korean family members. Also dare I say, it kind of reminded me to a small extent of how some people thank God. Not so much just as an expression, said without meaning or any real thought towards God or religion, but more like saying grace before a meal.


So yeah, things like that lead me to believe the mourning is quite genuine.


As for his son, I think I'm actually quite hopeful. By pretty much all accounts, he's quite unknown, so who knows what he'll be like. But honestly, considering the situation, I kind of feel like things only really have one way to go. So I'm pretty hopeful. I'm not really expecting to see any miracles or anything, but I'm sort of hoping for some gradual improvement for the region.
 

[Spikerocks101]

Kim Jong-Il's death was a lose for the game of golf. And apparently, a lose for the movie industry too. And I thought Lord of the Rings extended edition was long.

On a more serious note, I just don't see North Korea becoming a major threat in the next while, considering their economy has been at a stand still since the 1980's. Maybe if DRK started advancing their economy, possible going all colonial and occupy stuff like Antarctica and maybe parts of, say, central America or Africa, they could possibly get some leverage over the US, and start to become a bigger threat.

Honestly thou, I just feel bad for the citizens of DRK, since they were winning back in 1950's - 1960's, but now the USSR is gone, and China is neutral in the Koreas, so it is forced to listen to America's demands about weapon production, or else it will get another starvation like in the 1990's.

But then again, I know nothing.

[Hooman]

Kim Jong-Il's death was a lose for the game of golf.

LOL!  :lol:

Yeah, wow, I've heard of that golf thing actually. A little silly sounding.



I wouldn't exactly call China neutral on the North Korean issue though. China is still one of it's closest allies and strongest supporters. Probably occasionally embarrassed by North Korea and it's antics though. But still, they do share a border, so stability in North Korea would be a fairly big concern for China. I also don't believe they would exactly welcome US troops and control right on their border.

I don't believe North Korea is much of a direct threat in terms of conquering anything. I suppose they could certainly cause a lot of direct trouble though, especially if they decided to start using nuclear weapons (which supposedly can make it about as far as Alaska). The bigger concern I think, is they might drag other powers into conflict with each other. Consider, for instance, that China and the US seem to be largely on opposite sides of North Korean issues. Now consider what might happen if the most populous country in the world ended up in a war with the largest weapons manufacturer in the world. The result would not be good. But, I also believe there are enough sane and reasonably competent people in both those countries to prevent that from happening. At least I would hope so. Similar thoughts too on the Taiwan issue.
 

[Spikerocks101]

Honestly, I'd say Iran is a bigger threat to the US (not saying Iran is evil, but in terms of actual capability to resist the US Army, Iran probably would fair better). They have more land, larger population, and closer linked allies then DRK. Also, other then some governmental issues in Iran, they seem to have a better capability of attracting skilled scientists and researchers. DRK just seems like Cuba back in 1960's. It's only a threat cause it has missiles. There is no reason of US to get involved in DRK, other then claiming a mere 25,000,000 more population to the already billion's high US controlled part of the earth.

As for china, I honestly don't see them taking any sides with DRK. They sit between helping a tiny, mostly destroyed nation, or helping the worlds most powerful country. Also, considering US' and China's economy's are pretty much linked together now, I don't see either putting the small country of North Korea ahead of a possible 100 friendship.

North Korea also stated that it is not going to change from this event that has happened, and as I said before, I don't think any one cares. As far as Kim Jong-Il goes, I do regret that he died, not cause he is a great leader or I like communist leaders, but he is still another human being, and his death is just as sad as the death of anyone, for he probably did good deeds to in life. As for the wrongs he did...

[Hooman]

As for china, I honestly don't see them taking any sides with DRK.

Keep in mind that China has a mutual protection agreement with North Korea. It was signed in 2001, and is valid until 2021. According to the terms of the agreement, China is required to "immediately render military and other assistance" should North Korea be attacked.
  Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_...Korea_relations


Also keep in mind that there are fairly significant cultural ties between the Chinese and the Koreans.


Economic considerations between China and the US would be of interest though. Particularly the amount of US debt now owned by China. I sort of wish I understood the implications of that a little better.
 

[Freeza-CII]

All i saw on tv were military people crying seemed staged pretty good and by staged it did it to itself military brain washing. he was loved because they have no other way to view him never were aloud to. I believe less crying would be seen in the general public but they are just waiting to see what kind of tyrant will become of his son. Some one who is young and inexperienced. His death will change nothing. Much like Castro Its now just another guy with the same ideals maybe even worse.  

[plymoth45]

Quite frankly Kim Jong Il was loved by his people. I can't fathom why, wether it be ignorance or simple point of view, but he was still a man yes. And the country is mourning him, even some South Koreans have given their condolences. The whole things that sort of grabbed my attention on the issue was how South Korea limited border crossings for his funeral, and how Kim Jong Un's stance was very negative on it. While its understandable, things got pretty tense there for a while.

Other things on it are Kim Jong Un has promised the growth of the DRK's economy, though if he is honost about making it grow, its going ot be a long road and will require better diplomatic relationships with countries that Kim Jong Il has previously had... rough spots with. The last I read he was still trying to secure total power over the Military side of things. One thing that I found particularly distasteful was the 'human shield' policy that went national in North Korea, stating that any North Korean could and would be used as a human shield to protect Kim Jong Un. I can understand 'protecting your leaders', but that just takes it to a whole new, completely uneccesary level.

[TH300]

The fact that the North Korean people love their leader only once again shows how very well possible it is to control people's opinions. The leader doesn't have to do everything right ("right" isn't objective anyways, since its meaning is controlled by the media). All thats needed is a working propaganda machinery.