Author Topic: Plymouth Starship  (Read 8751 times)

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« on: March 10, 2010, 03:03:32 AM »
So, I've beaten every other level on all 3 difficulties either in the past or just recently (most of them just recently, I got bored :3 ), but this one continues to infuriate me. Maybe I just suck royally, but I always seem to be pwnt by a massive group of acid/rail panthers. Does anyone have any tips for me? I'm able to tech to Rare Ore and spawn a few ESG's but they come out right about the time I start making them.

I'll post a pic of my (current) base setup eventually.
Also, does anyone know (or can they look, because I'm a failure) at where the second volcano flows/if it destroys my original mine (on medium, that is)

Kthxbai.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 03:05:45 AM by Kayedon »
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 04:52:02 AM »
I usually just depend on EMP/Micro lynx combo until I can get a steady income of Rare and switch to EMP/ESG Tigers. The trick is to have a lot of common ore, in other words, many smelters, and keep several Vec Facs so you can produce a lot of units in a short amount of time if you have to. Another thing is that you should focus on base building early on, don't worry about defending until they actually start firing at your CC. At that point you can kill the lynx's shooting at your CC with a few scouts and start freeing up resources/colonists for researching weapons + other defensive measures.

As for the ESG's.. if you slowly pull them back, you should be able to make quite some damage on those panthers before they get too close to your base (depends where they spawn I guess)


As for the Lava, I cannot remember 100%, but I think your initial mine (south of CC) will be safe. Your initial Struc fac won't be though. In any case, at this point of the game, you should be mining from several other mine's, so if your initial mine gets overrun by lava, it shouldn't be a problem.


As always, play with low game speed and this should be quite doable.
If your still having problems, I guess I (or someone else) can tell you how to work around the problem with the computer attacks. Just be warned your gaming experience will probably never be the same(in a negative way) after we tell you ;)
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 09:26:36 AM »
if it weren't for the railguns, I'd tell you to use walls, lol

for whatever reason, only the computer's line of sight weapons will target walls, even though a thor's hammer will take out a wll in 2 shots...
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 03:06:59 PM »
I'm thinking of cheating just so I can figure out where the second lava flows to, but that would be cheating obviously. Thank you for the insight Highlander. (: I'll see if that helps at all.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Sirbomber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3238
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 03:26:47 PM »
Quote
if it weren't for the railguns, I'd tell you to use walls, lol
Uhhh, Rail Guns can't shoot over walls...  And I'm pretty sure the AI is too n0[size=0] [/size]0b to attack walls with anything other than Lasers/Microwaves (and maybe Scorpion rifles?).
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

Outpost 2 Coding 101 Tutorials

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 03:44:22 PM »
Quote
Quote
if it weren't for the railguns, I'd tell you to use walls, lol
Uhhh, Rail Guns can't shoot over walls...  And I'm pretty sure the AI is too n0[size=0] [/size]0b to attack walls with anything other than Lasers/Microwaves (and maybe Scorpion rifles?).
No they shoot walls with railies.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 03:45:24 PM »
The following attack walls:

microwave
laser
railgun

I've never had a scorpian attack on a wall, but I'm not sure that they don't
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 03:46:43 PM »
Quote
The following attack walls:

microwave
laser
railgun

I've never had a scorpian attack on a wall, but I'm not sure that they don't
Also doesn't matter, seeing as they're Eden. :P
I would think they do, but who knows.


Highlander. I tried what you said, waiting to tech weapons until my CC was attacked (and use scouts to blow 'em up.)

Well, I just can't seem to do it. I'll either just finish or get close to finishing Mobile Weapons Platform and 3 guys spawn in the bottom-left and 3-6 guys spawn on the right side of the screen and wtfpwn me before I can get more than a single Lynx made. If I go for 2 factories I have to give something else up earlier, usually my second smelter. I also seem to remain critically short on people. Any particular build/tech order I should be working towards?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 05:50:08 PM by Kayedon »
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 12:48:40 AM »
Now would be a good time for that picture of your base I think ? :P


Anyways, do you have enough scientists (+ good morale) when you start researching weapons ? Also if you need to buy yourself some time, there is nothing wrong with putting up a GP or two at key positions.


Also, I don't see why a 2nd vec fac means you cannot operate your 2nd smelter ?
You do idle everything you don't need/use right ?
(In other words, if you are not producing anything with your Struc Fac, why are you keeping it online ? Same goes with Vehicle factories, RCC, Labs etc.. if they are not serving any purpose at any given time, idle them to free up workers)

Population is always not enough I guess, but since your saying your critically short on people, it sort of makes me wonder how you set up your base/play the game up until the point where AI attacks. (What mark do AI attack btw ?)
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 03:01:31 AM »
I try to keep morale up and train avaiable scientists to NOT cripple my worker population, but I always end up failing. I will get the picture eventually, do not stress me. I don't pay much attention to marks, honestly. I'll observe next time.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 12:36:42 PM »
I played through this mission just to get some updated info.

~ 600 is when the first Eden lynx enters the area. It might fire on your tokamak, but not much else. At this point my population was approx 70 people.

~ 740 2nd lynx wave. 2 lynxes this time.  This time they fire a bit on your smelter, shouldn't be anything to worry about.

~ 780 3 lynxes enter, no serious damage, just random firing.

~ 830 This is when they started getting serious. 3 Laser lynx go for my CC. I get a few spiders, repair CC faster than lasers kill it and take out scouts with scouts. This is the point I start researching weapons. At this point I can have both my Vec facs activated if need be


As for the 2nd volcano eruption, it didn't take out my initial Structure factory, nor does it take out the initial mine.
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 04:58:11 PM »
Hmm. Something is different then.

I get (I believe) 4 waves of single Lynx's that just fire on any unit (no structures) they see (generally my trucks if I've been slow).
Then after that they send 3 in and start hitting my CC.
Never did I get 2 lynxes driving through, nor 3 that just passed me by.

EDIT:

Okay, there is DEFINITELY something different between our two patterns.

At Mark 300, first Lynx enters. Fires at Tokamak's and passes through.

At Mark 375, second Lynx enters. Population is at 61 (27/23/11). Doesn't shoot anything.

At Mark 410, third Lynx enters. Second link is near top of the map. Rare Ore Processing complete around this time. Lynx does not fire.

At Mark 450, I hit 20,000 available Common Metals (two smelters situated next to original mine). Rare Ore Smelter is completed and en route.

At Mark 465, three Lynx enter map. Third Lynx has just barely exited.

At Mark 495, three Lynx team reaches Command Centre and open fire. Trio of Spiders are able to repair it as a few scouts blow them up. Research into Weapons begins.

At Mark 510, Rare Ore Smelter finishes. Population is 74 (34/28/12)

At Mark 530, Focused Microwave Projection research is completed.

At Mark 555, three more Lynx enter from bottom-left. Mobile Weapons Platforms finish, a few guard posts are being constructed.

At Mark 560, three more Lynx enter from bottom-right.

At Mark 565, three more Lynx enter from middle-right.

At Mark 570, my two Microwave Lynx take on the middle-right trio (and lose fantastically).

At Mark 580, all three teams turn around and head back to where they entered, leaving the map.

By Mark 600, Independent Turret Power Systems has completed. Both factories are spawning Microwave Lynx. 18,800 Common | 7,143 Rare. Population is 83 (40/30/13). All trios of Laser Lynx have left.

At Mark 635, Advanced Combat Chassis finishes. Total of 17 Lynx. Rare Metal maxes at 10,000.

At Mark 655, Electromagnetic Pulsing finishes. Total of 21 Lynx. Third Common Ore Smelter being manufactured. Scouts are at all enemy entrances.

At Mark 675, third Smelter Kit is completed. Population is 94 (45/34/15).

At Mark 705, Heat Dissipation Systems finishes. Massive wave appears in bottom-right corner. 6 EMP Lynx, 4 Starflare Lynx, 3 Laser Lynx, 3 Acid Cloud Lynx, 3 EMP Panther, 2 Railgun Panther, 2 Laser Panther, 4 Acid Cloud Panther. My forces consist of 16 EMP Lynx and 23 Microwave Lynx.

At Mark 725, my forces engage his Lynx. An earthquake also hits the same area, destroying both my turrets guarding my factories as well as a chunk of my forces. Both trucks at my 3rd smelter are also eliminated.

At Mark 735, their Panthers take out the rest of my troops. Factories are too slow. Death is imminent. On the other hand, population is 101 (49/35/17).

So ultimately, this game was the death of me thanks to an Earthquake. Although counting the fact they had half my units disabled while dropping acid bombs certainly didn't help my odds. Earthquake or not, I don't feel I could have survived this wave.

A few things I have picked up, though. The fact I established my smelter closer to my mine early on permitted me more spending freedom. I usually wait quite a while, limiting my income so drastically that my forces are limited by how much I make, not how fast I make them. Additionally, I have noted that earthquakes tend to happen in the vicinity I like to build my Vehicle factories. Once I learn the lava flow better I may choose a better location for them so as to help prevent this. Researching quake prediction might also be a beneficial topic to choose.

So here's a few lists before my base is a smouldering crater.

My Population is 101. 49 are children, 35 are workers (30 of which are assigned to worker-like duties), and the other 17 are Scientists (4 Assigned, 12 researching, one is idle due to not starting a topic in my other lab).

My Morale is 99. Residence demand is 97%, Net Food is 18, 0% disabled, 11% unoccupied, 0% scientists as workers, and both Uni/Nursery are operational. Any morale-affects that are not listed have not been researched.

My finished topics are, as best as I can remember the order:
Research Training Programs
Offspring Enhancement
Cybernetic Teleoperation
Metallogeny
Environmental Psychology
Hypnopaedia
Robot Assist Mechanic
Advanced Robotic Manipulator Arm
High-Temperature Superconductivity
Legged Robots
Rare Ore Processing
Advanced Vehicle Power Plant
Hydroponic Growing Media
Focused Microwave Projection
Mobile Weapons Platform
Independent Turret Power Systems
Advanced Combat Chassis
Electromagnetic Pulsing
Heat Dissipation Systems
Scout-class Drive Train Refit

And then,

U[size=0] [/size]R DE[size=0] [/size]TH, MOR[size=0] [/size]TL.

I know that after HTS I did Legged Robots, and I am quite sure I started Rare Ore after that, but between Legged and Focused I am unsure the order. That looks around right though, seeing as there is almost 100 marks between Rare and Focused.

So, what is the problem? Am I teching too fast? Making too many units? A total new person?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 05:12:54 PM by Kayedon »
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 02:36:00 AM »
Hmm, hard to say what is actually causing your early demise. (We are both playing Hard, right ?)

For my part I go for a more thorough approach to the colony building. I'm focusing purely on colony/population enhancers in the start, building my colony up and researching upgrades for buildings. So yeah, might be that you are rushing your colony building in some way. Then again, you have more colonists than I have, perhaps a result of my focus on research ?

Looking at my save game from yesterday, the computer went looking for a final solution around mark 900.  
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 12:48:34 PM »
Your decisions in colony building are a big impact, and so is how quickly you can accomplish tasks.  I personally haven't played that one on hard (I don't care for the map myself) but I've noticed that on harder settings, some things that were constant in easy are a little more random.  Just to state an example of this, on the plym population, I had a common ore spot that was a 1 bar one time, a 3 bar the next time, and a 2 bar the third time.  It could be that other important events are more random as the difficulty increases, which would effect how quickly the "ai" kills you off.
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 06:05:14 PM »
Highlander, I'm on Medium. I only stated it briefly and not very clearly in my original post, so my apologies about that.

CK9, I don't care for the map either, I hate how they chose to split Common/Rare to each side of the map and give it such a tiny area. They should have made it the same map as Eden Population, me thinkith. That would make it more fun.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline Hidiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2010, 12:28:56 PM »
Well, you got me to replay this map on Normal, and after a few restarts I managed to complete it.

Basically, my strategy to this map is to relocate in the center of the map, where there are 2 common ore beacons a single central base can use. I won't even bother unless those two are at least both 2-bars (this run, I had a 3-bar and a 2-bar).
Advantage: you can keep the fighting in areas that do not get hit by quakes, only 3 decently manageable fronts to worry about.

I only extended my starting base by 2 residences, 1 agridome, one lab, the nursery and university. After those were build, focus was turned on building the new main base (CC and SF). Ever since the map started, I've been bulldozing my truck route. Whilst the new CC and SF are off to get built, I prepared a smelter and a tokamak back at my starting base. Once I got to idle my starting SF, having just enough workers, I activate my second base's CC and SF, starting a VF. Grabbed my trucks and moved them to my main base while the miner was being built, whilst also building a second smelter.

After this part, focus turns on building the A lab, second tokamak and residences, agridomes, new nursery and university, so I can finally idle the starting CC.

Lone lasers start passing by as this happens, hitting my tokamaks on their way. Along with the third lone laser, the CC attacking trio comes in. 2 Microwave lynxes ready at this point along with 4 ConVecs in the base, 2 of them ready to repair the CC. The trio goes down with minimal threat to my CC. quickly researched the stickyfoam and got a few at key points. Not building an army now, since attacking waves are dependent on the size of your army. Only rushing a few mics when the attacks come in.

Only now do I turn to rare ore, building a SF and CC to take to the bottom-most rare ore beacon. Luckily, it as a 2-bar. I also build a couple of rare ore smelters to start the mining. Linking the two bases with tubes along the projected lava spread edges (miscalculated a small section that got moved later). ESG and EMP Panthers are being built once rare ore flows in, moving a small team of ~20 panthers to my rare ore site. Building another few for main base defense.

After a few more waves, the second volcano erupts, forming a beautiful wall to the left of my main base and making main base defense take place on just 2 fronts (the right and the bottom). By this time, I start making ESG+EMP tigers. 2 VFs in my rare base and 4 in my main base. Eventually manage to form 3 full groups of said Tigers. 2 groups guard the 2 main base fronts, reinforcing each other when needed, and one group now guards the small entrance to the north of my rare ore base.
Walls are a major factor in this strategy. Any entrance you know will be used by the enemy needs to be restricted to a line 2 squares wide, other entrances sealed shut with lots of walls.

Of course, I extend my residence space, food production, build medical centers and 2 spaceports in the meantime, also expanding to the second common ore beacon (the 2-bar).

After all this, it basically gos on the same way, me researching starship components and launching them with one spaceport. the other spaceport keeps an EMP missile ready (I actually never used it, though I probably should have) and defending the three entrances.

Being foolish and not building 2 rare storages in the main base led me to a loss of both my rare smelters by a vortex. Such a smart vortex it was, that it took my SF there too! After a hard battle with the next attacking wave, I manage to get my rare ore back and am now suffering from major losses in army, also having to finish the star ship and launch a 10k rare. Marginally surviving another two major attacks, I finally launch the evac and am done with it, at around mark 2700.

I made end-game screen shots, if you're interested.


And there you have it, my bad strategies getting me past this map on Normal difficulty  :P
« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 12:33:26 PM by Hidiot »
"Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all"

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »
Quote
Not building an army now, since attacking waves are dependent on the size of your army.
 
I didn't really wanna reveal this point earlier since it tends to ruin the fun for me. But as Hidiot already mentioned it, I guess I'll explain how you can exploit this if needed.

First off, set up 3-4 Vec facs around your rare ore, and do the same between your main base and entrance points on that side of the map. Then, whenever a AI wave enters the map, quickly active the vec facs and start producing weapons (Lynx!).
Once attacks has been dealt with, just self-destruct all vehicles to keep future attack waves to a minimum.

Back yourself up with an extra spaceport with a EMP missile and some extra spiders, and this scenario suddenly turns into a stroll in the park.
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline Hidiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2010, 02:26:19 PM »
On this map, it seems that the AI takes a much larger buffer, so blowing your whole army up is not recommended.

Uhm... AI attacks are scaled to your forces on every colony map on Normal difficulty, so I thought it was common knowledge already.

I don't know about Hard though. Could be the same, except it's scaled to your strength + some more to make sure your life is hell.
"Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all"

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 04:41:11 PM »
I knew about the exploit, it just slips my mind all the bloody time.

Hidiot, can you post/link to the images? I am especially interested in knowing the location of your rare mine/the lava flow patterns, as I seem to remember an enemy spawn point being right near that.

Also, can you screenie the walls? I've never really used them in strategy and am not sure exactly what you're talking about.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 04:48:26 PM »
Kayedon, you never use walls for defence?  It's a fairly simple tactic that creates bottleknecks to reduce the effect of your enemy's weapons.  A mass of 16 units can take out a force of over 32 units of the same chasis with a good bottlekneck
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Kayedon

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 05:02:36 PM »
Quote
Kayedon, you never use walls for defence?  It's a fairly simple tactic that creates bottleknecks to reduce the effect of your enemy's weapons.  A mass of 16 units can take out a force of over 32 units of the same chasis with a good bottlekneck
Up until I think a few days ago I'd never even heard of it, so no.
"Trust me, I'm crazy."

Offline CK9

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6226
    • http://www.outpost2.net/~ck9
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 05:30:55 PM »
well, if I had saved the game I finished last night, I'd show you a picture of how to make a base entrance that forms a bottleneck
 
CK9 in outpost
Iamck in runescape (yes, I still play...sometimes...)
srentiln in minecraft (I like legos, and I like computer games...it was only a matter of time...) and youtube...
xdarkinsidex on deviantart

yup, I have too many screen names

Offline Highlander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 780
  • Outpost 2 Elder
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 11:59:44 PM »
On hard, blowing up your vehicles seems to be quite unproblematic if you keep enough Vec Facs around. The Ai only sends waves of 1 lynx and 2 tigers - all laser.
There can be Only one. Wipe Them out. All of Them.

Old player still playing. Visit Spark for a game of Outpost 2

Offline Hidiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1018
Plymouth Starship
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2010, 05:41:39 AM »
Well, I've finally done the smart thing and made an end-game savegame. Although, this one was done on Hard, exploiting the AI attack system. I also went wild with the walls in this one :P Should I upload it to the file forum?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 05:41:58 AM by Hidiot »
"Nothing from nowhere, I'm no one at all"