Author Topic: Some Concerns...  (Read 2497 times)

Offline Savant 231-A

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
    • https://www.outpost2.net
Some Concerns...
« on: March 10, 2007, 03:23:02 PM »
Now, before few month i watched Star Trek, and yesterday in about midnigh i started to think: "if there isn't any friction in space, how than, if a starship turns it's engines off, it slows down? It shouldn't beuse it's not close to any planets/stars. The Starship should float all the way, not just stop!."
I know this is stupid... and a bit spamish... but, it is still a prodiscutable topic. What do you think?
Gordon Freeman, and mr. Crowbar would own Master Chief in any part of the day.
"Come here citizen."

"From the ashes of the collapse we seek to build a better world for all."

Offline BlackBox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
Some Concerns...
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2007, 05:50:58 PM »
Well... Star Trek isn't real... technically the ship would keep going on forever (well, maybe not forever because there are very minute amounts of dust and other crap in space.. but friction from these things is very, very negligible).

In reality to stop a ship in space you have to apply force in the opposite direction to slow it down and hopefully bring it to a near stop.

However, if you are in deep space, how can you detect how fast you are going anyway (velocity has to be measured relative to a frame of reference, and no frame of reference exists where there are no planets or stars).

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 854
Some Concerns...
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2007, 07:46:38 PM »
As long as you're not talking about warp drive. That's a different story all together. Battlestar Galactica is much better about this (both the originial and the current flavors).

I think broad audience scifi in general leans toward space ships acting like airplanes because people can relate. I think the media believes most viewers watching TV don't want to be bothered with real phisics. They don't want to make their viewers think to hard because they might stop watching.

Offline Savant 231-A

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 486
    • https://www.outpost2.net
Some Concerns...
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 01:52:25 AM »
Quote
In reality to stop a ship in space you have to apply force in the opposite direction to slow it down and hopefully bring it to a near stop.
Like oxygen, or other gases.

Oh dude... watched a soooo old sci-fi film listen this:
a guy comes out of the ship, in the space, wtihout a suit, he space walks on the ship, and he "breathes" AIR (in space?!), than, the ship uses propellers to navigate (there ain't no air there), they spaek in space (if there is no air, voice can't travel on air particles, if there isn't no air....) etc etc...

 
Gordon Freeman, and mr. Crowbar would own Master Chief in any part of the day.
"Come here citizen."

"From the ashes of the collapse we seek to build a better world for all."

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
Some Concerns...
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 05:22:27 PM »
Yeah, I think they make some allowances just to make interesting episodes without really worrying too much about what would really happen.

As for the engine thing, there was one episode of TNG where they fired the impulse engines briefly, and then tried to drift out of some asteroids, with only the occasional thruster burst for course corrections to avoid collisions. In that episode, they had slight speed variations due to gravimetric effects from the nearby large asteriods/meteors. But other than that, they stayed drifting at the same speed even with their engines off.

Btw, anyone know how their impulse engines are supposed to work? I've sort of wondered what exactly they are. Is it supposed to work a little more traditionally like thrusters do? Or is it supposed to be more like an extension of the warp drive only at slower speeds? Probably not the later though, since they can have one without the other. Too many episodes where they lose warp drive, but still have impulse power. Hmm, maybe it's just some way of transferring engery directly into kenetic energy uniformly throughout the ship. But then what about inertia dampners?


Gah, I think you've got me thinking about this too much now. It's just a awesome TV show that's fun to watch. Doesn't need to be real.
 

Offline Chandler

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Some Concerns...
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 09:31:34 PM »
A lot of things to do with spaceships (movies, games, etc) treat them as ships (the boat kind) - ie. Star Wars: Star Destroyer, Nebulon B Frigate, Mon Cal Cruiser... etc

Yeah - Battlestar is good, haven't watched it in ages though. I think they have to use reverse engines to slow down, don't they?

Please note that whilst having a spaceship with a velocity of the speed of light or greater is theoretically (and practically) impossible, having it go from A to B faster than light would is possible - if you can learn how to fold space :D

One puzzler for you:

You're on a bike going 10km/hr, you throw a ball @ 5km/hr whilst on this bike. As you throw the ball, its speed is 15km/hr (relative to someone next to you standing still)

If it is impossible to travel faster than light, what speed does the light travel at if you're on the same bike, moving at the same speed, and you turn a torch on (relative to the bystander)?

Edit: Formatting.... :D
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 09:32:14 PM by Chandler »
Chandler

Offline Hooman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
Some Concerns...
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2007, 01:26:47 AM »
Light just travels at the speed of light. I think it would be similar to a sonic boom. Sound doesn't travel any faster if it's emitted by a moving object, just like light doesn't. I'm sure if you got an object to travel at a speed siginificant to the speed of light, you'd get things like the doppler effect, and eventually once you reached the same speed, you'd get a boom. A car can travel at a significant speed compared to the speed of sound (and emits sound), and our ears are suited to pick up this change in frequency, so the doppler effect with sound is something we can regularly observe first hand. But we can't really make objects (that emit light) travel at a rate significant compared to the speed of light, so it's not something we would likely observe (at present).


The part that blows most people's mind, is that light is supposed to travel at the same speed from the perspective of the bystander and the person riding the bike.

Offline dm-horus

  • Banned
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1042
Some Concerns...
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 11:54:38 AM »
thats the paradox. light always travels at the speed of light no matter how fast  relative to the speed of light youre going. and remember that the speed of light doesnt only apply to photons, it applies to many other particles, radiation and phenomena.

and... these arguments can only go so far since we are bashing FICTION with facts. we could keep arguing about it forever.  

Offline White Claw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 854
Some Concerns...
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2007, 07:29:43 PM »
Yes, objects traveling at high rates of speed cause a shift in the color of light. So the wavelength changes and appears more blue or red (visible spectrum) based on if the object is going away or toward.

Impulse engines are (I believe) a type of fission drive (It might be fusion). In either case, they're nuclear powered as opposed to the antimatter powered warp engine. That's why one can be out and the other not.

Incedentally, they're only allowed to use above 3/4 impulse if necessary because of space/time dialation. (i.e. they don't want the crew to be underaged when they get back to earth.)

Warp engines are NOT faster than light in terms of normal space. (Neither is FTL in battlestar.) They travel by bending space.