Author Topic: Hyperspace  (Read 1694 times)

Offline OP2Patriot

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Hyperspace
« on: January 30, 2006, 06:36:59 PM »
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006

What do you all think of the article?



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Offline Arklon

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Hyperspace
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 06:54:39 PM »
Get some cattle prods and prod the scientists and all other people whom might need prodding to get this thing tested faster.

Offline Stormy

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« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 07:44:34 PM »
Interesting.... hey, if that happens, we can say that we are people who found out earlier than most other people :P

 
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Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2006, 08:24:38 PM »
its purely theoretical and ive actually heard of this about 10 years ago. i did a school project on it once. i managed to dig up diagrams of a proposal for craft design using this engine online.

it involves artificial gravity wells. a ship has two gravity wells a specific distance apart. the forward well produces positive gravity and the one behind it produces negative gravity. at the point in between the wells there is a flux point where the ship can ride the differential.

think about it like this; the +gravity well distorts local space 'downward' and the -gravity well distorts space 'upward' creating a wave that the ship rides or 'surfs' at the focal point between the wells.

this design is actually several decades old and the only think keeping it from working is..... the single greatest puzzle in science and physics today. it requires knowledge and the manipulation of particles we have no proof exist yet: gravitons. the superdimensional particles that create the effect of gravity. gravitons were suggested more or less as a stop-gap measure in order to allow some more popular theories in physics to function. i generally doubt anything that hasnt been proven so at this point i think this whole idea is completely bogus. when i see a picture of a graviton then i will change my mind but even then we would have to come up with some way of manipulating those particles.

id say creating a better ion drive would be the way to go. its only taken 10 years for us to go from the testbed ion drive used in deep space 1 to the current model set to be mounted in a future uk mars probe which is 16x faster. its only the third generation of ion drives and we've already acheived a huge advancement in the technology. for those who dont know, ion drives CAN reach the speed of light, but the engines themselves are weak. this means that the ship CAN build up to the speed of light eventually, but it takes a long time to do so depending upon the strength of the engine. hypothetically the newest model of ion drive could reach light speed but not within the lifetime of the people who built it, and by the time it had the probe would be too far out of the solar system to monitor effectively. creating an ion engine powerful enough to come close to reaching light speed within our solar system (or closeby) would be a breakthrough and i think its only a matter of funding and engineering to reach it. the method suggested in the article requires intimate knowledge of quantum mechanics that we cant even begin to ensure exist. travelling through dimensions would require great knowledge that i doubt human beings could acheive this millenia or next! we dont even know if there are extra dimensions, more or less that we could ever safely travel between them.

ive got a whole lot i could say on that subject, but ill save that until somebody asks. also, i skipped over alot of the specifics in the above statements so if anyone wants i could clarify in detail.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2006, 08:29:48 PM by dm-horus »

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2006, 09:51:53 PM »
Now these Gravitrons are they smaller then the quarks that they said didnt exsist either

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 10:14:38 AM »
quarks do exist but we cant really do anything with them. right now all we can do is observe them at great technical and electrical expense. keep in mind that a "quark" isnt just one thing. quarks are a class of subatomic particle. keep in mind that when dealing with subatomic particles, mass (not size) is the determining factor in how easy a particle is to detect. this can be seen in the case of quarks. they are one of the smallest particles theorized but its mass is high enough to be detectable.

the thing about gravitons is that if the theory is true, they never cross into our universe so there is no way of using them. the current theory basically suggests that gravitons exist in another dimension right next to ours. in that dimension they are one of the strongest forces, so strong that their presense can be felt in our dimension and is represented in our universe as gravity. it also suggests that there exist complimentary versions of matter in our universe in other dimensions and that the mass in these other dimensions affect our universe in the form of gravity. therefore gravity is the effect of particles that we can never reach, touch or manipulate because they exist outside of our universe.

imagine a blanket stretched between 4 chairs. put a softball in the middle. from the underside, we can see the effect of the presence of the ball, but not the ball itself. we have been looking for the "ball" in our universe and have failed. some scientists think its simply a matter of making more sensitive detectors, but it may be as simple as the blanket and ball analogy. we cant find them because they dont exist here. gravity is the affect of the presence of particles in a neighboring dimension.

if these dimensions didnt exist there would be no gravity in ours because there would be no exotic material to create gravitons. perhaps in these other dimensions gravitons are the principle particle that all matter is made up of, we dont know because theres no way to know if the theory is true. if it is, this means we would need a device that manipulates matter and enery in another dimension, not ours. i have no idea how that could be feasible.

also keep in mind that most theories dealing with gravity were mostly invented in order to keep a particular theorists mathematical proof valid. a stop gap measure inserted into a theory that keeps the rest of it working. string theory is one of the most popular out there, but to date not one part of it has been proven and yet most physicists accept it almost as fact. bear that in mind when you read abou extra dimensions and hyperspace; its mostly all bunk.

the difficult part about making sense of all this is in order for me to explain one unproven theory, i must reference another equally unproven theory. the skill in being a scientist and physicist (at least today) is being able to take the little pearls of fact found in these theories and being comfortable ignoring the rest even though most of your peers (or your betters) whole-heartedly bet their careers on them. backing up theories with other theories that have yet to be proven makes them all so wide open to interpretation that it is very likely that the discussion i have made here today is completely false when approached by someone with a different take on the same ideas.

in other words, dont take any ones word for it. if you read an article (or even in an encyclopedia) that theory X has been proven by Y and Z, it is probable that they are the result of someones unique INTERPRETATION of the problem, not necessarily because it has been abolutely proven.

Read this, this and this.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2006, 10:49:00 AM by dm-horus »

Offline Ezekel

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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2006, 09:08:07 AM »
believe it or not, this is actually something i had to do some research in for an essay.

dunno if you care but, from what i gathered, the theory is sound, but the hypothesising that leads on from it might not be.

for one thing, it would appear to me, that its equally (if not more) probably that the dimension you slip into will have a LOWER value for c (the speed of light).
further, just because you're upper bound on velocity is changed, doesn't necessarily mean you will go faster.
correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i know, we don't have anything that can even approach the speed of light in conventional travel.
in other words, even if we could surpass the conventional speed of light (3x10^8 m/s) we have no means of practically achieving such a thing.

well thats it for now.
- yeh i know i hardly come here anymore, but physics degrees eat into a persons time, and i generally prefer to sleep then to be online in my free time (i'm lazy, yes, lol). doesn't mean i've given up interest though.

edit:
oh BTW, Z-machines are cool (expensive) "toys" ^_^  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2006, 09:10:12 AM by Ezekel »
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Offline lordly_dragon

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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2006, 12:38:11 PM »
well as you describe it... you are talking like you were sure that there is multiple universe based upon quantum theory. And in those universe you sugest that the speed of light would be different... hmmm... mather to some reflection i think...

first if those multiple universe could be proven. then instead of hyperspace travel you could just  use the quatum hole in the subatomic patern.


in conventional travel you are right the fastest speed a human reach was about  mach 10 (not 100% sure) but we are so far from the light speed even at mach ten.

like horus said we are all talking pure theory and almost nothing is proven yet.

i will think about it later because now i have an exam in like 5 minute :P

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