Author Topic: Singled Out For Using Missles...  (Read 18871 times)

Offline BlackBox

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Singled Out For Using Missles...
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2006, 08:03:58 AM »
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If we had OP2's engine source (which we don't D:), we could've made it so that you could only have X number of EMP missiles being produced and on launch pad at the same time.
You could do something like that in a DLL anyway.

Just hook the command packets, and when a ctMoProduce packet appears, and the item being produced is a missile, increment a count. If the count goes above a certain number, change the command type to a ctNop and the missile will never get built. (Or perhaps, you could AddMessage an error to the player, saying that they cannot build more EMP missiles).

Offline Hooman

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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2006, 03:43:45 PM »
Umm, that would fix the number of missiles per game. Keeping track of already built missiles and missiles being built would take slightly more work.

But still, valid strategy!  (thumbsup)  :P

Actually, I just don't have much faith in any of the "rebalancing" suggestions. It seems like most of the suggestions to rebalance the game only ends up making it more unbalanced, or at best, equally unbalanced but in a different way.
 

Offline Tellaris

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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2006, 07:17:00 PM »
I agree hooman.   So far, every idea put forth will simply not work.   The ONLY way I can think of balancing this is to redesign both factions... in which they may no longer play like they where ment to.   Eden, technologically advanced, and powerful.   Plymouth, weaker, but more cunning.
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Offline Ezekel

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Singled Out For Using Missles...
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2006, 10:29:18 AM »
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Another one of these. Let me just make this short.

Nerf the missles, then also nerf the thors!
and while we are at it lets nerf ESGs and Stickyfoam as the honestly give plymouth the advantage in the absence of thor's hammer.
in fact, why quit there, lets give the two sides the same tech trees but keep their buildings different looking.
but wait someone might hide a lynx behind the eden university! oh god forbid you can't see half of a lynx!
better make the sides identical and nerf any attacking units beyond a basic laser-lynx.

- as you can see, nerfing something just doesn't work the way you'd like it. you have to keep doing it and doing it till you end up with a more and more generic faction make up on each side.

thor's and EMPs both have their weaknesses.
thor's are expensive
as are EMPs
EMPs cannot cause damage, but can hit anywhere on the map.
thor's can do a lot of damage (of course if they are in range), but have a range limit.

also, i agree with b-ray. it's unlikely the dynamix team considered missile spamming. infact, players didn't cotton on to it that quick (i remember when people were moaning about plymouth being weak in high mark games and only useable for early micro rushes. seems that that isn't the case anymore.)
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Offline FeazOfEden

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Singled Out For Using Missles...
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2006, 10:04:23 PM »
Honestly, you all are a bunch of whiners. StarFox wants to use the resources to make a bunch of missiles? Let him. I'll just build an Observitory and a few Meteor Defense posts, and then Thor rush his arse.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2006, 11:00:57 PM »
Necro. Totally necro.

btw, I concur.

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2006, 11:01:22 PM »
fox aint that easy to defeat, if you can use missles properly, you can shut down almost any attack, and what are you going to do, build MD's all the way to his base? I doubt that
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Offline Tellaris

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« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2006, 12:01:19 AM »
Actually...   Thats been done too...   Not to fox, but a diff game...

I'll put it this way...   Didn't work too well.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 12:01:36 AM by Baikon »
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Offline FeazOfEden

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« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2006, 12:11:34 AM »
Oh please. If your RTS tactics are up to snuff, you'll use multiple attack vectors, ESPECIALLY against someone with multiple AoE ranged attacks, such as EMP missiles.

His forces will be unable to take out all your attack parties before the pulse wears off, and then you beeline to his power generators and spaceports. Or, if you're lucky, you can hit his CC.

Offline alice

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« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2006, 12:43:20 PM »
If you take out EMP Missle's, take out Thors too =p


RTS balancing takes alot of practice, and you can't just remove things like that, especially because you can really tip the scales one way. Don't mess with the balance like that, unless you make it even.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 01:01:09 PM by gpgarrettboast »

Offline Arklon

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« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2006, 03:52:37 PM »
Feaz, have you even tried to stand against a constant barrage of missiles falling down every 2-5 seconds (yes, that is what it is really like)?

Offline FeazOfEden

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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2006, 04:40:55 PM »
For a barrage like that, he has to first invest MASSIVE amounts of metals, workers, and scientists.

The moment you see him, realize you can't let him get up that far. To accumulate that amount of spaceports and missiles, he'll have to skimp on the vehicles and GPs.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2006, 05:07:56 PM »
with 3 bar mines or even a multipul amount of mines its is easy to get the resources to make the missiles.  Even more so when you have extra storages.

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2006, 05:48:11 PM »
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Feaz, have you even tried to stand against a constant barrage of missiles falling down every 2-5 seconds (yes, that is what it is really like)?
Arklon, I think a better question is to ask if he's ever actually played against an opponent that isn't pre-scripted into the mission DLL. (AKA a real human opponent)
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Offline Arklon

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« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2006, 06:25:09 PM »
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For a barrage like that, he has to first invest MASSIVE amounts of metals, workers, and scientists.

The moment you see him, realize you can't let him get up that far. To accumulate that amount of spaceports and missiles, he'll have to skimp on the vehicles and GPs.
Getting metals for mass missiles is extremely easy. I'd like to see you go up against Fox with him having 10 spaceports constantly pumping out missiles.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 06:25:43 PM by Arklon »

Offline Betaray

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« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2006, 07:20:32 PM »
yea feaz, lets put your money where your mouth is, I want to see you play a game against fox, and see how well your thors do against his missles
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I just hope they don't explode

Offline FeazOfEden

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« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2006, 08:01:26 PM »
Would be glad to the moment I get the bloody thing working.

Offline dm-horus

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« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2006, 08:45:06 PM »
I agree with bomber, it sounds like he's never gone up against a missile spammer. Last time I got spammed the missiles fell a few every second for about 2 minutes and then about 2 minutes between volleys. Theres nothing you can do against that, especially if theres about 15 screens between you and the opponent.

feaz, try playing someone THEN talk to us.

Offline Freeza-CII

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« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2006, 09:32:18 PM »
Shooting down multipul missiles is possible i think i made a thread on that.

But ill recap it shortly because i hate redirecting.

2 arrays of meteor defences.  One active one inactive.  Say when Metdef A fires once or twice you got to its counter part A-2 (which sould be close by A but not right next to it) and activate it once its fired met def A should be good to go again so you deactivate A-2 and wait for the next time.

I have actually tryed this before and it seemed to work.

Offline Highlander

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« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2006, 05:09:38 AM »
1) If your opponent can get 15 Spaceports and the Vehicles to defend them, without you ever being able to stop him, I think we can say without doubt he could have killed you in any way he wished. To be honest, he probably goes about with the Spaceports because t is fun, not because it's the only way for him to beat you.


2) You basicly have 2 ways of denying your opponent those missiles:

- A: Deny him a Spaceport.
- B: Restrict his resource collection.

If you can't do either, then you have a flawed strategy.


3) You are actually allowed to think OUTSIDE the box guys. Learn from your mistakes. If your attack gets messed up by missiles, you DON'T have to continue to send X-amount of tiger squeezed together in a group at the enemy base the next 100 attacks you make. Change strategy ?


As with most other places you can adopt the term "Survival of the fittest" into Outpost 2. Either you change and adapt to your opponents tactics, take advantage of it and survive, OR you don't adapt and fail the sexy voice in the Outpost 2 intro.


On a sidenote: This topic was posted February 8th.. Please don't tell me none of you have managed to work your way around this problem by now.. ?
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Offline Arklon

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« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2006, 03:27:31 PM »
Lynx don't help, either. Obviously, you don't know what mass missiling is really like.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 03:28:39 PM by Arklon »

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2006, 03:30:25 PM »
I just made them cry until they stop using missiles.  ;)  
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Offline Highlander

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« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2006, 03:34:17 PM »
No I guess, your right Arklon ;)


 
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Offline CK9

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« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2006, 03:38:21 PM »
I used to build up to 15 spaceports with missles constantly on the launchpads.  People didn't mind so much because we agreed before hand that no base attacks with the missles would take place
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Offline Chandler

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« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2006, 10:04:23 PM »
Every RTS has problems when someone decides to mass produce something. WC3 - mass produce air units. TA - mass produce Big Berthas. Dune 2 - mass produce Devastators. The list goes on.

If we're going to limit EMP Missiles, then we'll have to limit EVERYTHING. Why? Because using EMP missiles is a valid strategy that you are taking away. You'll have to limit all vehicles: Spiders, Thors, ESGs, EMPs, RPGs - EVERY KIND of vehicle. BECAUSE MASSING IS A STRATEGY.

I played a game against ShadowCrystal where he massed Scorpions and turned their lights off. I didn't b****, because it was a good idea - can't see them, can't EMP them.

Massing EMP missiles IS annoying to the recipient. You have to adjust your strategy to suit what your enemy is doing. They're massing spaceports? Take them out before they can mass EMP you. They're massing ........... (<- insert object here) - HIT THEM ASAP before they get a good quantity up.

Stop the b****ing and start using your brain to make your own counter-strategies.
Chandler