Author Topic: Hunting For Porters  (Read 4116 times)

Offline jcj94

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« on: June 08, 2010, 11:13:32 PM »
I have an idea that if i could find some Porting software, i might be able to post a download of OP2 for PS2.  You could do what i do with Wii games, download, burn, and put in the system.  With the joystick capabilities and the menu setup on Outpost2 I think it would be possible.  If you guys have found any Porters for either system (or the Wii, witch would probrably work better), please PM me a link.  I will test it BEFORE I post it to see if you can burn and play.  If anyone has any suggestions for fetures i might add, please post and tell me.    :D  

Offline Kayedon

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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 11:57:27 PM »
...
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Offline Arklon

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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 12:19:10 AM »
...

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 01:28:13 AM »
...?

Well, at least we can admit that he's being normal about it.

jcj, I think it is safe to say that we probably don't have anyone who can help you there around. I'm not very familiar with what porting implies and how it works, but if I remember correctly, it has been stated that it can't be done for OP2.

For one, we don't have the source code. Second, the game was made in 1997, to run on PCs. Even if you'd somehow port the game, it would probably have to recognize the platform it's been ported to as a PC to work.

Well, as far as I can remember, at least.
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Offline Spikerocks101

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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 02:06:41 AM »
Wouldn't it be easier to just stream it onto the X-Box/PS3? Use Stream my game. It should be pretty easy, and will work fine, I think.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 05:23:22 AM »
doesn't that mean that you have to have a working Xbox/PS2/PS3 version? i don't think it could be done. unless Dan (original lead programmer of OP2) has the source and is willing to talk to us.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:24:44 AM by evecolonycamander »
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Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 05:26:26 AM »
Quote
unless Dan (original lead programmer of OP2) has the source and is willing to talk to us.
Try not to start this topic again, since it's been tried many times, through many ways, to get to the source code. We all want the source code.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 05:30:30 AM »
im not trying to, im just stating the only (im)possible way
edit:before this turns to a chat why not talk on irc?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 05:45:06 AM by evecolonycamander »
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Offline Kayedon

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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 05:39:19 AM »
It's impossible, he doesn't have it, and even if he did he wouldn't give it up due to copyright reasons.
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Offline jcj94

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« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 09:50:51 AM »
Well with spike idea I might (realy big might here) be able to port it.  And for those of you who are confused Porting is basicly shifting sytems.  Its easy to go TO pc, but 80 times more difficult going back.

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2010, 10:34:16 AM »
Well, good luck with it. Some of us will remain skeptical, but should you succeed, I'm sure you'll get your due recognition.

I'm afraid there's not much more for me to add... I really don't know much about consoles and how they work, other than the fact that their processing power is mostly the graphics processor with efficient float type usage.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2010, 11:33:00 AM »
Quote
And for those of you who are confused Porting is basicly shifting sytems.
We know what it means.  Do you think we're idiots?

You can't just put OP2 on a CD and have it magically work on the PS2.  Learn how computers work.
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Offline gpgarrettboast

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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2010, 12:40:28 PM »
Quote
You can't just put OP2 on a CD and have it magically work on the PS2.  Learn how computers work.
^This

You will encounter many different challenges with porting an application from one platform to another; and the effort spent in overcoming them would be better invested into rewriting it on the target. Without the source code, you'd have to overcome the differences in CPU architecture, lack of common APIs between the two (win32/dx vs proprietary interfaces), differences in input/output, platform limitations, and so much more. You could possibly find a x86 emulator for your platform but a large amount of the issues will still remain. It's virtually impossible; rewrite it.

Offline BlackBox

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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 12:56:09 PM »
Okay, a few issues I see with this idea:

1. Porting requires rewriting platform-specific components of the software in question. This generally requires source code (furthermore in OP2 the platform specific bits are not abstracted out to make this easy, even assuming we had source code).

2. OP2 was compiled for Win32 platforms running on x86. You can't just magically "move" code from x86 to MIPS (the platform used in the PS2), emulation is a possibility but the task of writing an emulator to play OP2 successfully on a MIPS platform unmodified would be orders of magnitude more complex than rewriting OP2 itself for MIPS. Again, you need source code for this to be feasible, or if you are going to rewrite OP2, the primary target should be windows on x86.

3. You can't just run homebrew code on an unmodified PS2 (I know, I have a softmodded PS2 and I know people with chipped PS2s), you would need to chip the console (costs money and requires very fine soldering skills) or install a softmod such as FreeMCBoot on the memory card (installing this on an unmodded PS2 requires a specific game, you have to rip the DVD, replace an ELF file on the disc with the installer ELF for the softmod, burn modified ISO to DVD and then use a slide card to swap the original game with the burnt one after the system has booted and authenticated the original PS2DVD).

4. Unless you have RGB component or VGA cables (and a monitor that supports sync on green for the VGA cable to work, I'm not sure that most consumer monitors support sync on green) the highest resolution you are going to get is 480i (NTSC) or 576i (PAL), this would be equivalent to about 1/4 of the resolution that OP2 originally ran at on the PC (640x480 since it forced VGA video mode when using directdraw instead of the GDI renderer). (And yes, you only get 240 lines true vertical res cause in interlaced mode only half of the screen is being painted on each pass).

5. Due to the resolution issue noted above, split screen RTS wouldn't really work very well IMO, and network play is only possible if you have either the PS2 network adapter (for fat PS2s, which isn't sold retail anymore) or a slim PS2 which has the nic integrated into the system. (I have a fat PS2 and the network adapter, only because I wanted to put an HDD in the PS2 to play backups)

6.
Quote
Its easy to go TO pc, but 80 times more difficult going back.

It's difficult either way, x86 is a CISC architecture and generally has an OS running on top of it with a certain set of syscalls, MIPS on the PS2 is a RISC architecture which requires calls into the PS2 BIOS to do anything such as graphics rendering. In other words: two completely different instruction set architectures and APIs for the programmer to use.

As I suggested above, if you are going to port OP2 the best idea would be to rewrite the game completely for x86 and a modern OS such as windows or linux, it can be more easily ported to other platforms later if source is available.

Finally, I'm not sure why people continually ask about the source code from dynamix. We aren't going to get it, it probably doesn't even exist anymore. (Dynamix was closed after Sierra acquired it, this means most of the IP that sierra didn't care about was probably destroyed). Furthermore, Dan or any of the other programmers would not have any of the source code (when you work as a software engineer, code you write on company time, is generally company property, you don't get to keep personal copies of it for yourself unless you have permission from the company, and even then it's for work-from-home situations or similar generally; you don't get to continue to possess it after you stop working for said company, the developers most likely signed an NDA regarding these things and I doubt they would want to lose their job or be sued because they violated that NDA).

Please, use search on the forum before bringing up this "source code" thing that has been reiterated hundreds of times again.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 12:56:29 PM by BlackBox »

Offline Kayedon

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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 08:30:09 PM »
BlackBox, I'm sure that 90% of your post won't make any sense to the people it was intended for.
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Offline evecolonycamander

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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2010, 08:31:06 PM »
agreed
 
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2010, 08:49:04 PM »
It's like those boxes with the differently-shaped holes you play with as a kid.  OP2 is the square block.  A Windows computer is the square hole.  The square block (OP2) goes into the square hole (PC).  It can't go into the triangle-shaped hole (PS2).  You can change the square-shaped block so that it will fit in the triangle-shaped hole, but in order to do so you'd need special tools, and if you had those tools it would just be easier to make a new triangle-shaped block.
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Offline jcj94

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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2010, 09:14:50 PM »
Quote
BlackBox, I'm sure that 90% of your post won't make any sense to the people it was intended for.
You are entirely right... I stopped after the third problem.
Stop listing problems and let me find them out on my own.
It was what you used to do to me, so why change now :unsure:  

Offline Moley

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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2010, 10:07:06 PM »
"we" (meaning the moderators, not inclusive to me :P) point out problems so "we" (this time the community) doesn't have to hear about what you fail on a project that has been tried many times by people much more competent then you...
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Offline Fenrisul

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« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 06:09:47 PM »
There are a couple of x86 emulators floating around the web for the DS.  Porting x86 -> anything other than x86 requires an x86 emulator (at least a rudimentary one).  As far as I know none finished exist for the PS2.  Linux on PS2 is not based on x86 like a regular PC and thus cannot run anything like WINE.

I always support people trying to learn things on their own and to reach independent goals...  but this .. just stop heh.  you need to learn more about the fundamentals of programming (in this case compiled code and how processors function).

On another note - who the hell wants to play an RTS on a console with either NTSC or PAL output?


http://ps2pc.parodius.com/

if you fancy a read - this is the only x86 emulator I know of that was ever remotely finished for the PS platform..
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 06:16:47 PM by Fenrisul »