DO NOT TAKE THIS ALL LITERALLY MOST IS OPINION!
Note that in my posts, i have quotes in between {} brakets and my judgemnet starting with a dash right under it.
{{{{{My posts}}}}}}The op thinks he can twist and turn information that has been proven wrong. Indeed anyone who is not blind will know that the only people profiting are the people aware of merchanting clans, not in definition, but as to dates and dumping times, and mostly luck.
It is a fact that the majority of so proclaimed merchanting clans (thats 50 to 3) will scam you by dumping their stock befor the price falls. It is also a fact that these clans sell their stock long befor the price reaches it's peak.
Also note that it's a fact that only people who are close to the bosses will ever find out about when to dump. Nobody can read theiir minds, and there is no trend that indicates when they are dumping, only for after they dumped. In conclusion you can't say that you can just look at the ge graphs. Sure there are spikes, but thats from people buying the item from the scammers stock.
The op also assumes everyone has brains, this is not the case. There are alot more idiots in this world then most people realize. Hence is why they are loosing money. Not everyone looks at the ge graphs, sure maybe the smart players. Iv seen many morrons on this game, from not knowing that f2p scorpions are nonpoisoness to not being realistic on how the game works; "safer! safer!" yes the majority of runescape is as dumb as can be thinking it's bad to eat in the middle of a pvp fight. This same dumbness comes to this arguement; not everyone is smart enough to make a profit, and probably never will be. Yes i know that people change, but also consider there are more people under level 100 in f2p who are effected than all the level 70+ p2p of runescape as a whole. Also consider that people in f2p normally arent as experianced as members. And finally, note that these clans effect the entire f2p population in a negative way due to there ill judgements.
The only reason these clans are living is because the f2p population is the biggest unranked participator in the scams. This is all truth. beleive it!
Cliviax Doom
25-Feb-2010 22:50:56
The op beleives that pvp has to do with price rises? and/or prices staying high?
This is only half true, some pvp items have infact been horded by the scammercherclans. Like strengh potions (very popular in f2p) verac's helm, went up like 3m in one month(approx). Other barrows armors might have been effected.
Granite mace went below 3k and is still under 10k, which is outrageous and has been undervalued for over 5 months. (Proves prices dont always go back to normal though only in rare cases like this.)
-about my post befor this-
The majority of ruunescape is infact noobs. tons of people of under level 100 and most (not all) act under the influence by my perspective. I know of several people in real life who were under the influence (12 years old or younger) that have played and goten past level 100. These underaged people know not the ways of scams or merchanting, they also can't tell the difference. Im not saying everyone is who act like this is underaged, just a large chunk of runescape. like at least 60%... Besides that, i know people who say this game is for yung children because they grew out of it. THIS GAME IS AIMED FOR CHILDREN 5-16 FOR THE MAJORITY. I know jagex does not do this intentionaly, it's really just the gameplay and how person-freindly the npc enviroment is. I know of a level 110 who has less than 3m cash and items, he is really poor.
This all justifies my point that most people on runecapse (even level 100+) are noobs.
And the point that most people in this game are noobs justifies that most people don't use their brains when buying/selling at the ge. There are also peole whoo arent noobs who dont study the ge graphs closly or even notice changes (like me). However we do realize (for the most part) after the price has skyrocketed or crashed.
And that leads to why people don't make as much mmoney from mercherclans as you say
All of this is fact and can be proven by jagex, they know their players. You cant prove against this writing in stone
so unless you bring a totally new reason on how people make money
from mercxhanting clans people wont beleive you, just the naive.
{"- If someone sees an item they want to buy suddenly rise in value, they might avoid buying it and wait for the price to level out.- If someone sees an item they want to sell suddenly collapse in value, they might avoid selling it and wait for the price to level out. - If someone sees an item they want to buy collapse in value, they might try to buy it before the price levels out. - If someone sees an item they want to sell rise in value, they might try to sell it before the price levels out. "}
-The majority does not know to do this.}Most people take their cnahces to get transactions over with.
{Occasionally, everyone, including you and me, simply puts in a blind offer just to get the transaction over with.}
-It's more than occasionally, people do it all the time.
{“In conclusion, price shifts are friends, not foes, but said price shifts should be done by actual supply and demand, not people looking to manipulate the prices of a certain item.”
Again, just because someone makes use of something doesn’t make it bad.
You have an equal potential to make use of the manipulation and you most likely do, unawares. } It does make it wrong because it's considered 'cheating' and is not the "spirit of the game."
Normal merchanting clans, in fact, DO influence and manipulate price shifts via the GE.
(to be continued)
Cliviax Doom
26-Feb-2010 00:00:08
Scam-clans function by tricking others into false rewards and robbing them of their money.
However, using price manipulation as their main method, many people can and do make use of the manipulation, whether or not they know it.}
The only reason scam clans make money is tricking people into helping them change the price of an item and make it unstable. Only scamclans manipulate prices. Merchanting clans like iv stated before is not telling people what items to buy or hording and item, its giveing feedback on what is rising and falling in prices NOTHING MORE!!!
YOU PROVEN WRONG BY OTHERS:____________________>
{There is nothing immoral about taking an item that you genuinely believe is going to rise due to actual demand and selling it at a later date. However, getting together and deciding to manipulate an item is not fair and is essentially a loophole in the system being taken advantage of. }
I agree with this mod 100% he knows what hes talking about, you dont.
{Is that why the leaders and ranks sit in the cc saying "buy at max!buy at max!!"
What an obviously blatant falsehood. Prices do not RISE by buying at low. That's why the lemmings are told to buy at high. The force the price up.}
-Yet again proves my point that you dont know what your talking about.
{Those facts *are* deniable because I am not aware of unwittingly profiting from the actions of these clans.}
-This guy is right, becuase you can't possibly know how he makes money, only he knows how he makes money, the player always knows there profit. ALWAYS! Proves
my point you are lieing, cuss nobody can read his mind, you cant read my mind, so you dont know that we are making profit from clans or not.
*"Keep scam-clans, botting, luring, and burdens alive despite jagex's
rules against it"}
-That alone can justify that this thread will be closed sooner or later. It also ruins your support because you support all yourself even after being proven wrong time after time again
Cliviax Doom
26-Feb-2010 00:07:12
You statments of "riskoverreward" ultimately false. Although only half true, the risk that you get in merchanting clans is only scams, the risk you get in merchanting is not taking advantage of the entire stockmarket, the risk with gwd and other ingame features were designed but jagex never intended for merchanting clans to go overboard with hording riskful/profitable items. It is also not the same type of risk/reward, it is an unfair risk/reward because you are taking advantage of somthing which is illegal.
{Also note that the economy and the items within the economy are so large and quantitative that it is relatively impossible for any merchanting clan to buy out an entire item. Instead, they simply attempt to offset the balance between supply and demand in order to raise prices.}
-I have proof to go against that; try selling adamant arrows (p++) on the ge for least, they won't sell EVER. This is how horded items NEVER sell/buy in the ge. (don't come back untill you try it)
Hordeditems: Smart people may be able to guess if an item is rising in price, but it only takes around 10 minutes to dump their items and 2 days to inform people to start buying, when they start buying, the price goes down as they buy, so overall they loose money. Also note that the scams don't give you profit becuase they trick you into
buying early and selling later after it crashes, so again, your proven wrong.
{For one, I can easily say that you, on the other side of the argument, lack factual proof as well making this entire ordeal a debate of opinions.}
-You cant say that when everyone who comes in here is debating against you, including the fmods
{The next time you buy or sell an item on the GE, take note of the price. When you sell or buy the item back again, compare prices and see if you’ve made profit.
Generally, if you attempt to avoid loss, you might actually make profit}
-I did and guess what; i lost money! (talking about my general ge data overtime.)
random guy's post: you're ****** stupid, it is a mathematical impossibility for a merch clan to let everyone profit. If everyone in the clan dumps then who the **** will be buying the dumped goods?
((((sorry if this is a little big, i had alot to say to this guy)))))
