Author Topic: Multiplayer Noobs (eden Research List)  (Read 2246 times)

Offline stuwk

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Multiplayer Noobs (eden Research List)
« on: February 14, 2009, 09:06:04 PM »
Possible help to noobs maybe maybe not heres a list i made of helpful EDEN researches in order while playing online. I am not perfect so if theres anything wrong and im sure there is plz tell me so i can fix it.


Eden Tech tree
DON’T WORRY ABOUT ANY SPACE PROGRAM STUFF, THEY WILL NOT HELP YOU IN MULTIPLAYER
These should be done in order, except the "other" section.
COLONY HEALTH(ALREADY DONE IN MOST SCENARIOS)
Lab Standard Health Maintenance – medical center
Lab Standard Offspring enhancement - nursery


ORE/ Training
Lab Standard Research Training Programs- lab advanced
Lab Standard Metal Reclamation –
Lab Advanced - High Conductivity
Lab- Standard - Metallogeny
Lab Advanced lab- Rare Ore


VEHICLES
Lab Standard-  Large Scale Optical Resonators- Guard Post/ Laser
Lab Standard- Robot Assist Mechanism
Lab Standard- Advanced robot manipulator arm
Lab Advanced- Mobile Weapons Platforms- Lynxes
MUST HAVE RARE ORE FIRST
Lab Standard- Advanced Vehicle Power plants
Lab Advanced – HIGH CUNDUCTIVITY MUST BE DONE FIRST
Lab- Advanced DIRECTIONAL MAGNETIC FIELDS- Rail gun
Lab  Advanced ELECTRO MAGNETIC PULSING- EMP
Lab- Advanced Increased Compacitance circuit
Lab- Advanced Artificall Lightling- Secret Weapon… Thors Hammer
Lab Standard- Reinforced vehicle Construction – Panthers ( MUST HAVE RARE ORE)
Lab Advanced- Independent Turret Power systems
Lab  Advanced- Advanced combat Chasis
Lab  Advanced- Dual Turret Weapons- TIGERS!




OTHER/ ADDONS
Lab Advanced- Rare or extraction- increases ore yield by 30%
Lab Standard- Automated Diagnosic Examinations – Increase capacity of medical centers
Lab Standard- Robotic Image Processing- INCREASED RANGE
Lab Advanced vehicle power plant – Increases speeds   
Lab Standard- Explosive charges- Starflare vehicles and guard posts
Enhanced Defensive Fortifications- upgrades guard post armor
Lab Standard- Scout class drivetrain – Increases LYNX speed only
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 09:06:47 PM by stuwk »

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 05:53:09 AM »
Reading this hurt me somehow. But I don't feel like extrapolating.
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 03:24:50 PM »
Quote
Reading this hurt me somehow. But I don't feel like extrapolating.
Agreed.

Why is someone trying to rewrite guides we've had for years?
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 11:08:49 PM »
I would question putting medical centers first on that list. As long as your morale is high, and your population is fairly low, they probably don't have much impact (and there is little need if your population is already high). I think getting a nusery and university up first would be more important than medical centers. You need the nursery to get more kids, and you need the university for kids to turn into workers (as well as manually training workers into scientists). Without both of those, you're doomed to extinction sooner or later. The med centers will only save you from extinction if you have really low morale. Plus, there is the cost of tying up that worker and scientists to keep it working. Plus, once you research it, you have to keep a certain number operational, or it will hurt morale.


I suppose the list of Tech Name - Tech Effect would be useful for new players. Although, the order is perhaps not the best.

That, and most people play Plymouth in multiplayer, since they're much stronger early game.
 

Offline Hidiot

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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 05:41:28 AM »
In a morale unsteady game, especially with low resources, Med Centers make a huge difference population-relating. Of course you can't live without Nurseries and Universities, but with 2 Med Centers (upgraded too), I could get my pop up to 100 (point from which on it kinda starts exploding anyway) much sooner than without those med centers.

Upgraded Med Center holds 75 colonists, 50% more than the unupgraded one.

Etc...
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Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 09:37:02 AM »
Hooman, you forget the benefits of spamming Med Centers.  Keeping colony demand below 20% = immortality.
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

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Offline Hooman

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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 02:03:35 PM »
Well of course they'll lead to you having more people. But you're forgetting the cost of running those med centers.

I refer you to: http://forum.outpost2.net/index.php?showto...indpost&p=59490

Pay attention to the TP0 column (doh, T0 in the table, TP0 in the legend) in my second post. By putting those workers and scientists into running med centers instead of other useful production, that's how long it would take you to catch up on the lost work potential. Note that I give results for both low morale, and high morale. Pay particular attention to the high morale one. It takes a very long time to pay off. Most games probably don't last that long.

Hence why I said they're not very useful when morale is high. But generally, you can usually manage morale so it's at least half decent most of the time. The only time I really suffer from extended periods of low morale, is after killing a large enemy base (including non-combat buildings), in which case the scenario is pretty much yours anyways.



Edit: Just ran another simulation. (The code is in the SVN if anyone else wants to try). I started a low resource multiplayer game, and found I had: 20 workers, 12 scientists, 18 kids. I fixed morale at 70.

With 1 med center, I tried to balance the worker and scientists potential, and found that training 3 scientists at mark 494 let them eventually balance out by mark 657. The numbers on the left are without a med center, and the numbers on the right are with a med center. (The diff column measures the worker and scientists potential differences. Note that 0 means they've balanced out, so neither player is ahead).

Quote
1 Med Center:

Training 1 scientist at mark 97:
Mark:652 Workers:[ 46| 50] Scientists:[ 7| 9] Kids:[ 45| 51]  Diff:[-2| 0]*
Mark:655 Workers:[ 46| 50] Scientists:[ 7| 9] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 1| 1]*

Training 2 scientsts at mark 412:
Mark:660 Workers:[ 46| 49] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 47| 51]  Diff:[-1|-2]*
Mark:663 Workers:[ 47| 49] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 0| 0]*
Mark:665 Workers:[ 47| 50] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 47| 51]  Diff:[ 2| 2]*

Training 3 scientists at mark 494:
Mark:655 Workers:[ 46| 48] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 46| 50]  Diff:[-1|-3]*
Mark:657 Workers:[ 46| 48] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 0| 0]*
Mark:660 Workers:[ 46| 48] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 47| 51]  Diff:[ 1| 3]*

Training 4 scientists at mark 535:
Mark:652 Workers:[ 46| 47] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 45| 51]  Diff:[ 1|-5]
Mark:655 Workers:[ 46| 47] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 1|-1]
Mark:657 Workers:[ 46| 47] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 1| 3]
Mark:660 Workers:[ 46| 47] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 47| 52]  Diff:[ 1| 7]
Mark:663 Workers:[ 47| 48] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 1|11]

Training 5 scientists at mark 560:
Mark:652 Workers:[ 46| 46] Scientists:[ 7|13] Kids:[ 45| 51]  Diff:[ 5|-6]
Mark:655 Workers:[ 46| 46] Scientists:[ 7|13] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 4|-1]
Mark:657 Workers:[ 46| 46] Scientists:[ 7|13] Kids:[ 46| 51]  Diff:[ 3| 4]
Mark:660 Workers:[ 46| 46] Scientists:[ 7|13] Kids:[ 47| 52]  Diff:[ 2| 9]

Note that training 5 scientists will cause the worker potential to dip negative again, unless it is delayed much longer. This is due to the relatively small gains in population (about 6 adults by the break even point), and the cost to keep running the med center (2 adults). Similarly, training 4 scientists has a decreasing worker potential at around the break even point, but it manages to recover before going negative.

Note that the "potential" values are most relevant under conditions of full employment.


Increasing the number of med centers increases the cost, and so takes longer to recover from, but when it's reached, you'll have a correspondingly larger and faster growing population.

Quote
2 Med Centers:

Training 2 scientists at mark 122:
Mark:709 Workers:[ 49| 57] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[-11|-1]*
Mark:711 Workers:[ 49| 58] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 50| 60]  Diff:[-4| 0]*
Mark:714 Workers:[ 50| 58] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 48| 60]  Diff:[ 2| 1]*
Mark:716 Workers:[ 50| 57] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[ 7| 2]*

Training 3 scientists at mark 343:
Mark:709 Workers:[ 49| 56] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[-6|-5]*
Mark:711 Workers:[ 49| 57] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 50| 59]  Diff:[ 0|-3]*
Mark:714 Workers:[ 50| 57] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 48| 60]  Diff:[ 5|-1]*
Mark:716 Workers:[ 50| 56] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[ 9| 1]*
Mark:719 Workers:[ 50| 57] Scientists:[ 7|10] Kids:[ 49| 59]  Diff:[14| 2]*

Training 4 scientists at mark 445:
Mark:709 Workers:[ 49| 55] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[-4|-5]*
Mark:711 Workers:[ 49| 56] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 50| 60]  Diff:[ 1|-2]*
Mark:714 Workers:[ 50| 56] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 48| 60]  Diff:[ 5| 1]*
Mark:716 Workers:[ 50| 55] Scientists:[ 7|12] Kids:[ 49| 60]  Diff:[ 8| 4]*

Quote
3 Med Centers:

Training 4 scientists at mark 302:
Mark:770 Workers:[ 53| 64] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 53| 70]  Diff:[-6|-1]*
Mark:773 Workers:[ 54| 65] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 51| 69]  Diff:[ 2| 0]*
Mark:775 Workers:[ 54| 65] Scientists:[ 7|11] Kids:[ 52| 69]  Diff:[10| 1]*


Note that there isn't too much of a change in how long it takes to pay off when adding additional med centers after the first one. Which means if you're going to pay to run 1, there isn't too much additional cost to run more. Might as well benefit from the increased population and growth rate of running more if you're going to bother building them. But still, the game has to run over 650 marks, or you somehow have extra people lying around, for them to really benefit you.
 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 04:24:58 PM by Hooman »

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2009, 09:49:18 AM »
Just noticed this:
Quote
DON’T WORRY ABOUT ANY SPACE PROGRAM STUFF, THEY WILL NOT HELP YOU IN MULTIPLAYER
Yeah, this is the worst guide ever.
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

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Offline Sorcer

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2009, 09:50:59 AM »
when it comes to multiplayer games i always remembered getting med centers way after i had all my vehicle research done if i were Eden and after i had my emp rocket done for Plymouth. flat out doing med centers first is just blatantly retarded those should be done later in the game when you've started building your forces to keep your pop growing not dying like it will do if you don't build one.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2009, 09:51:50 AM by Sorcer »

Offline Sirbomber

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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2009, 09:52:41 AM »
Hmmm, I think you all need to play Survivor; then you will better appreciate Med Centers.
"As usual, colonist opinion is split between those who think the plague is a good idea, and those who are dying from it." - Outpost Evening Star

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Offline Highlander

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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2009, 02:08:05 PM »
If you don't have to worry about attacks from the start, Med centers is a good idea, because it will give you a pretty big edge later on.

If your playing a fast game though, the scientists and workers are probably needed elsewhere.
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