Outpost 2 - 1.3.5 Update

[Leviathan]

Ok so it would be great if we can get stuff sorted this year and get a new version of Outpost 2 out!

What would you like to see in the next update?

What I think:
- New tilesets
- New maps
- Renegades single-player campaign included
- Map maker included
- Different language Outpost 2 versions
- IRC client included?

Please also see this post.

Thanks

[Paco]

AI, and unit max removal.... I'll add more to this...

[Arklon]

AI, and unit max removal.... I'll add more to this...

AI's not feasible any time soon, can't remove the unit cap due to engine limitations (though the cap can be doubled pretty easily, since it looks like it was originally supposed to be double what it actually ended up as the whole time).

- Renegades single-player campaign included

It's something of an alpha or a beta in its current state, with missions 3 and 4 having a tendency to be bug out.

- Different language Outpost 2 versions

The localization code needs to be able to patch more dlls than it currently does so the main menu and such can be translated. Translating tech trees is a no go because that will break multiplayer compatibility between different language versions and translating missions is also not possible because we don't have the source for them. There are WIPs for french, german, italian(?), and spanish translations.

[BlackBox]

Actually, it is possible to get techtrees to sync up for multiplayer (it's possible to force the checksum to match on the files by adding 4 bytes of garbage data to the end).

As far as including renegades, the mapper, IRC, etc. to the download, I think these should be left separate. To a lot of people this is just extra garbage that is probably not wanted; in the case of the mapper and renegades, these are beta at best. Not to mention that a lot of people prefer a smaller download (if not because of a slow connection, it's because they don't want a bunch of crap getting installed with the game. Personally, I'm not a big fan of that kind of thing and I don't think we should start doing that).

As far as new maps and new tilesets, I would say include them only as long as they have been tested and appear to be of high quality. I think it's too easy to get into the habit of including things just for the sake of including them; we should only include something if it deserves to be included. A prime example (and I admit, I am the culprit here) would be Plymouth Cold War. It didn't get tested enough and really shouldn't have been included (though it still was due to time constraints, because we wanted something new just to have it).

I think if we are going to be releasing new content of any type, it needs to be QUALITY. Not something thrown together at the last minute to include just to have something "new" (which really turned out to be buggy crap once people actually played it). No one should be pressured into finishing or releasing a project for the sake of inclusion in the update.

[Empedocles]

I'd like to see this in the next update. I run into the unit limit all the time and that picture of 2000+ Laser Lynx is just awesome.

[Sirbomber]

When you talk about high quality and being bug-free...
What if they're supposed to be buggy, or buggy in an uber way, like causing the terrain to melt into multi-colored lines?

[Arklon]

Actually, it is possible to get techtrees to sync up for multiplayer (it's possible to force the checksum to match on the files by adding 4 bytes of garbage data to the end).

OP2 doesn't checksum techs (which isn't what makes translated techs not compatible with others anyway), which it def should since it's very annoying when you find out later in the game some people have different techs and the game desynced.

[Sirbomber]

Then why do techs in different languages cause desyncs?

[Hooman]

Well, I found this to be an interesting question, so I looked into it.

The game checksums the following files, and stores the checksum in an array in this order:
-------  [Part 1: Sheet data]
BUILDING.TXT
MINES.TXT
MORALE.TXT
SPACE.TXT
VEHICLES.TXT
WEAPONS.TXT
edentek.txt
ply_tek.txt
multitek.txt
-------  [Part 2: Exe data]
Shell  [whatever the loaded shell DLL is called]
Outpost2  [whatever is returned by GetModuleFileName(0)]
-------  [Part 3: Script data]
scriptChecksum  [the level DLL]
map  [referenced by the DLL]
-------  [Part 4: Summary]
checksumOfChecksums  [checksum of the above checksum table]
-------


You'll notice the tech tree referenced by the level is not specifically checksummed, but if it is one of the default ones, then it gets included in the first part of the checksumming. Hence the tech tree is only checksummed if it's one of the default files (edentek.txt, ply_tek.txt, or multitek.txt). Also note that tutortek.txt is not checked anywhere, even though it's one of the default stock files.


Edit: But BlackBox is right. We can fake a checksum if we need to. It's actually quite easy, and we did it back when the sheet files were first decompressed and then repacked.
 

[Savant 231-A]

I would like to see an integrated IRC client in op2
And it would be nice to see the tilesets remodeled
 

[Sirbomber]

I would like to see an integrated IRC client in op2

Why? What purpose would that sever, other than making unnecessary work for our already overburdened coders?

[Fenrisul]

Easier to get new people to play? perhaps gamers that don't have an interest in IRC itself but rather just like to play games?

[Savant 231-A]

I would like to see an integrated IRC client in op2

Why? What purpose would that sever, other than making unnecessary work for our already overburdened coders?

I wouldn't call it unnecessary work, you can, but I won't.

Also, why are we arguing? I think the coders will be able to tell is it unnecessary work or not.

[Sirbomber]

Also, why are we arguing? I think the coders will be able to tell is it unnecessary work or not.

I believe they have, on several occasions.

And if they don't have "an interest in IRC" then how do they intend to talk to anyone? Whether it's built into OP2 or not, it's still IRC.

[Hooman]

Ok, so I put together a *Beta* package containing all the new patches that people have been using. This should make setup and syncing with new people a little easier if you're going to force the new patches on them (which people usually seem to do).


This package contains the 1.3.0.4 RC2 release as a base, with the following patches and changes:
 - Minimap scroll fix (so you get caught on the sides less often)
 - Network game speed fix (so it tries to stay at the speed you set rather than half of that)
 - Hard unit limit patch  (1023 -> 2047 max units)
 - Soft unit limit patch (See ChangeLog.txt for details, it might not match the previous patch people are using)
 - The "NetPatch" mod has been included, with the current game server settings already applied to Outpost.ini, and a pre-made shortcut (which may need modification).


*Important Notes*
- The checksum on this package might not match what people are using. I took the soft unit limit patch from one of my earlier exe files, and I think it might be different from the soft unit limit changes that Sirbomber wrote to the exe that people have been using.
- The "Outpost2 (Loadmod NetPatch).lnk" file is set to the "C:\Sierra\Outpost2\" folder, which might not be where you install the game. If you place the game somewhere else, you'll need to update the link for it to work. Otherwise, you can just copy it to your desktop as is.

- I recommend choosing "Extract Here" from "C:\Sierra\", since the package has the "Outpost2\" folder stored internally.



This package is not official at this point. There are still a few things I'm looking into doing that may get added before a final release is supplied. Here are a few missing things:
- Fix minimap scrolling for undersized maps, so the scrolling doesn't get stuck
- Meteor Defense patch (so there is no cycle time when it can't shoot something down, only the probability that it can't).
- Fix wreckage bug, where wreckage sometimes turns into rare rubble on certain terrain types.
- Swap group selection behavior, so <number> only selects units, and Shift+<number> will select and center (rather than the other way around).
- Fix the option buttons once and for all so people don't need to press Alt or play with Windows settings.
- And of course, get official endorsement from BlackBox!


Download: Outpost 2 (1.3.0.5 - Beta 1)

Edit: Beta 2 has been released. It is posted later in this thread: Here.

[Sirbomber]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hang on there! Everyone is already used to the current method of selecting hotkeyed unit groups.  If you change it now you're going to mess it up for the people who have been playing for 10+ years.

Having said that, I don't suppose you could hack a way to select multiple buildings of the same type?  That would certainly make commanding GPs and building vehicles at multiple VFs easier!

But I get the feeling that's not gonna happen.

Other than that, looks good.  Any you planning on including any new maps/missions/techtrees (hint hint)?

[Hidiot]

I would also suggest including color mods (.bmps only, or whatever) that have been made and look good. They don't cause desync in multi player and may be a nice little feature.

[Sirbomber]

I would also suggest including color mods (.bmps only, or whatever) that have been made and look good.

I assume that means "all of them except DM 666"?  What's wrong with that one though...?

Anyways, good idea.  We should probably include all mods (maybe as optional installations) while we're at it.

[Hooman]

If you have stuff you want added, you could always put it somewhere in the SVN so I can take a look at it. I make no guarantees though. (Probably best to make a branch off the current branch, and then putting the files in there. Ask on IRC if you're not sure. Or just dump them somewhere new and obvious and let me know).


And are you really that serious about the unit group selection? Seems like that'd be pretty easy to retrain for. Possibly even pleasant. It would certainly make it more convenient for new players that are used to the way other games work. Or when switching between pretty much every other game and OP2.


I'll add the multiple structure selection to my ToDo list, but it'll get a pretty low priority and I probably won't look into it for this next update.
 

[Sirbomber]

Since when has Outpost 2 ever been about being like "other" games?
I personally enjoy the current hotkey system.  Less buttons to press.

[CK9]

If anyone were to shift the hotkeys, all the rushers would be mentally messed up....LETS DO IT!  rofl!  jjk

[Hooman]

- Fix the option buttons once and for all so people don't need to press Alt or play with Windows settings.

Done!

I'll put it into the next patch release. If anyone just can't wait, you can download the patched copy of odasl.dll directly from the SVN. I'll be working on some of the other patches before packaging up a new release.
 

[Leviathan]

Really glad work is getting done on this

Thanks!

[Hooman]

I've just committed another two updates to the SVN.

One is the meteor defense patch. Now it won't fail to fire 1/8 of the time. Note that there is still a 50% probability of shooting down the missile if it's unupgraded, and a 75% chance if it's upgraded. These probabilities were not affected.


The other patch addresses the wreckage bug. Now with the patch applied, wreckage should always be picked up as wreckage, rather than sometimes becomming common or rare ore. Also, cargo trucks will no longer try to salvage nothing by docking in the middle of nowhere. The patch isn't quite "perfect" though. If you set the rubble cell type, but not the tile type, then it won't pick up anything, but the truck wheels will still spin for a bit after it's stopped, like it's trying to salvag something. It stops after a bit and has no effect on the game. I don't think I'll bother addressesing this issue. At least not at this time. The problem though, stems from the cell type being checked in some parts of the code but not others. (The tile index is always checked against known rubble tiles).
 

[Sirbomber]

Don't worry about that, Hooman.  That isn't a bug so much as poor map design.  I sometimes wonder why those celltypes are even usable in the mapper.  They don't really work right, do they?

Anyways, good work.