Deciding To Do Things And Doing Them

[Quantum]

Guys, we really need to straighten up here. We keep planning things and they never get done. for example:

Op2 Bash, translating Op2 and making the sound work for vista and other things like that.

Op3 must be the slowest game ever made.
I know I can't do anything past basic coding but most of you guys can. so let's get something done because the never ending "we will fix it" and 'fix it' not happening is boring.  

[BlackBox]

I appreciate your concern for this but sometimes getting everything that we want to get done just can't happen very quickly.

Most of us are busy with real life (college/university or jobs) and cannot be working on OPU stuff all the time. OPU is definitely not a full time job for me or anyone else, and no one is getting paid for their work here.

Furthermore, there are times when I lack the motivation to work on anything here. When I get done with classes for the week I generally don't feel like sitting at a computer writing code or doing anything like that (for me, weekends are the only time when I have any sizable amount of free time). I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way.

Unfortunately, this is what happens when it comes down to volunteer work on the internet. If you can find more people who have the time and skills to devote to working on projects like these, by all means, bring them in and see if they want to do it.

It would be nice if there was more time and motivation for working on projects here at OPU, but we all need to remember, real life should always come first.

[Fenrisul]

Heh - this is largely why I've been releasing my models as I finish them;  code is almost useless in small chunks,  but models/artwork (especially in mesh format) can be used by anyone.

[CK9]

If I had half the coding expertise you guys have, I'd offer to help out, but my coding knowledge is limited to the basics of C++

[Quantum]

College/jobs do come first but this must be the most time spent to make one game  :yawn:  

[Leviathan]

We need more people to help out.

[Hooman]

I think it's maybe more of a question of getting people that know what to do, then just getting more people. Plus it doesn't help that most of the people working on the project are inexperienced. You can throw all the people you want at something like this and it still won't get done unless people know what they're doing.

Plus, if anyone has ever read the Mythical Man Month, then you'd be seeing other problems with that statement. If one person can do 1 month of work in one month, then it should seem that 2 equally skilled people should be able to do 2 months of work in 1 month. In practice however, this is usually not the case. Adding more people to a project takes time to coordinate them all, so you normally get less of a speedup. Keep doing it, and the problem can get so bad that adding a new person will actually decrease productivity.

Suffice it to say I think the problem is a little more than lack of people, or even lack of time for the people currently on the project. There are a lot of problems this sort of project needs to overcome, and I don't think it's ever really had the momentum it needed.

[Hidiot]

With more people on one project it's usually sensible to have them do separate parts, but you still have to put all those parts together at the end. Having more people working on it can save the sanity of a small group...

I have worked (and am currently working) on group projects...

[Hooman]

True, but it helps if they know what they're doing from the start. If all you have is a lot of enthusiasm, then it'll be pretty tough to get anything done. By the time you've learned enough to really do what you want to do, your enthusiasm to do it has usually died out. Now I can certainly credit the Genesis team with having lots of enthusiasm, but it seems like most of the members had less technical expertise to start with then some of the other projects. I also get the feeling that the enthusiasm has sort of fizzled by now, (although much later than I expected), and most of them are still sort of learning (or have kind of forgotten about the project).

At any rate, I'm not overly upset about this, nor do I see any real reason to be. As far as I'm concerned one of the high points of the project was that it encouraged a few people to get off their butts and go learn something interesting. I don't think I ever really expected to see a completed game come out of it, but the fact that it got people doing something seemed like reason enough for the project to exist.

Actually, I've also wondered why so many people want to make an Outpost 3, and more particularly, why they want to make it a sequel to Outpost 2. Outpost 2 wasn't a sequel to Outpost 1, so there isn't too much reason to suddenly make Outpost 3 a sequel to Outpost 2. You could just make a game with the same theme and style of gameplay without trying to append a new storyline. Heck, you could even just take the old storyline, maybe update or rework it a little, and use that as a basis. Or while you're at it, *gasp* you could even break with the Outpost name. Yeah, you heard me. Outpost doesn't own the copyright to certain doom of all mankind. Just think of all the movies and TV shows with that theme. It's a lot even if you discount the cheap budget movies. Then you could get away from all the copyright issues, and make a story that doesn't need to fill certain plot holes. Personally, I think I like the idea of Outpost 2 more than I like Outpost 2 itself. After all, it's not exactly the best balanced game, even though the majority of vehicles and buildings for the two colonies are the same. Plus I've always sort of felt that combat was tacked on, and I suspect the game may have been more Sim City oriented in the original design. So yeah, maybe just make something new that has similar principles.
 

[Quantum]

What about a fresh start?
 

[Nynx]

I was thinking of doing a more simpler expansion to Outpost2 that would require only new maps and missions:

New Terra: War of Attrition

 

[Hidiot]

Why must it be a war?

Just keep the main story of OP2 and make more missions and make them more interesting... But keep the principle of the original.

[Nynx]

read my little blurb under "Outpost2:Divided Destiny"

but again, this would be a community thing where everyone can just add maps with scenarios for the 'Colony Game' tab, yes this is kind of inspired by that 'Plymouth cold War" scenario

 

[Sirbomber]

I was thinking of doing a more simpler expansion to Outpost2 that would require only new maps and missions

We tried that. It was called Outpost: Renegades, and it had people who actually knew what they were doing working on it. Now, all we have are four alpha missions, and the final version is expected approximately 5 billion years after the End of Time...

[Nynx]

well guess what? this is new venture, aka there is no 'team'
people who can make maps make them, and the people who can code them code them
it would be a very informal process
there wouldnt be a campaign, just scenarios

[Leviathan]

I agree with Hooman about Outpost 3. We allready have a great game which has unlimited possibilities still left to do for it. Lots of missions to make, maps, custom tech tress and more.

I dont realy think time should be spent making a new game, we have the game, we should be spending time to improve the game with new content to inrich the experience of Outpost 2. This is not just content for the game but content for the community such as guides etc for the wiki.

I still think Outpost 2 is not a newbie friendly game, It still has a learning curve (all the research names), its not pick up and play and I realy feel it needs a pick up and play mode.

All in all I think Outpost 3 projects were mostly a waste of time and effort. Eddy-B did the right thing and worked with the game that we allready have! Its a great game and we can make it even better!

We will allways need new and more people to come to the community, even if they just come to play they are still contributing to the community and keeping it active.

Also see here:
http://forum.outpostuniverse.net/index.php?showtopic=3975

Thanks

[Sirbomber]

Outpost 2 does not have "unlimited" possibilities.  What a person can and cannot do with the game is directly proportional to the programming skill of the mission designer, and we really don't have any user-friendly ways of making new content... The Mapper is a pain to use, having to hand-code every mission can take months or even years depending on how much you want to do with the mission (and requires knowledge of C/C++), and making a new techtree from the ground up is a long and difficult task.

Also, as a final note: Working on Outpost 3 is not a waste of time; talking about working on it is.

[Quantum]

The pick up and play mode should be a totally seperate thing like a skirmish.

I really wish Outpost 2 would of had something like that. That way people could play without having to do multiplayer , or practice as the case may be.

Either way it would have improved Outpost 2 period.

If no one wants to work on Outpost 3 then this is something that should also be added as a  modification to Outpost 2

[Freeza-CII]

I still think Outpost 2 is not a newbie friendly game, It still has a learning curve (all the research names), its not pick up and play and I realy feel it needs a pick up and play mode.

that is not true if you actually play to have fun with new people.  But like all games there is a elitist attitude and we all must bash the noob.

If no one wants to work on Outpost 3 then this is something that should also be added as a modification to Outpost 2

its not that no one wants to work on it its that no one can.  Either not enough time or not enough skill.
As for modding OP2 its in several threads that is cant be modified other then maps and tech trees.  you basicly need to remake the entire game.

[Leviathan]

Sirbomber the tools we have allow us to create new maps and dll's, single player and multplayer and its only single player maps with AI that take a long time to code. Multplayer dll's are just about placement of objects. The mapper is adequate, Ive made many maps with it. Dont blame the tools we have, they are far better than anything we had years ago and we have come a long way in moding and being able to create content for OP2.

"unlimited" I mean by there are still many possibilities of types of content to be made for the game. Many types of new maps, fun and special maps like use map settings maps for StarCraft. New tech trees, edit the current tech tree so its more easy understandable.

All the lang translations for OP2 packed up like the Eng version is packed up and in a finished state. And its not just content for OP2 as I said. Also other content people can do for the wiki.

Of course making content takes time but it can be done. Anyway Im just going over the same things again.

Freeza compare Red Alert to Outpost 2. In Red Alert you dont need to know what techs to do out of a large list that you have never seen before, In Outpost 2 you do. A newbie needs to learn and read some guides at least to start geting into the game.

Quantum there can be many pick up and play types but a single player skirmish is sure needed. They should be able to pratice and learn multiplayer in a single player mode. There can be multiplay maps made where you dont need to research or build structures. You can a prebuilt base and you just build units and battle. No real experence of Outpost 2 required. And maps where you just have a army and you battle vs the other players armys. I also think their should be a moded version of the tech tree with simple names so that its easyer to understand for new players and It should be done in a way that one player can use the easy name tech tree and others can use the original in the same game if possible.

These are my ideas, dont flame me Sirbomber. Thanks

[Quantum]

I was thinking about Red Alert 2 when I said Skirmish so I agree with you Lev  

[Freeza-CII]

Freeza compare Red Alert to Outpost 2. In Red Alert you dont need to know what techs to do out of a large list that you have never seen before, In Outpost 2 you do. A newbie needs to learn and read some guides at least to start geting into the game

the problem isnt the game the problem is the people.  If people would actually try to help people learn you would see a better quality of player be born.  Not a Trial by fire bulls*** that you get with games like RA and SC.  what most people do is either bash the s*** out of them in the game and laugh at them behind there screens.  Or Just slap up the ole tech tree link and say there ya go learn it.

Having a training mission for the bacis rush or both Eden and Plymouth would be the key as there wouldnt be a need for people to sudenly say HEY BLOCK THIS SWARM OF NOVAS MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHA.  Just set time limits for a optimal not a absolute perfection.  I would even suggest a LR trainer.  Oh yes I did say rush because you damn well know that every one trys to do things as fast as possible even if there is a bm/am. So before any one trys to hate me for trying to have rush only players.

Also i wont compare the games there only the same in the fact there a rts.

[Quantum]

We still do need a skirmish for the new ppl to practice. Owning ppl can be fun when it comes to playing Op2 with newbs but we got to give them a chance. And I'm not saying that skirmishes always have to be battles there can be different modes to it.

[Hooman]

So..., what have YOU been doing?  


That's right. You have the power to stop this!  
Go make some skirmishes. I'm sure you're prefectly capable of learning how to do it.

[Freeza-CII]

I cant code for s*** but i can make great pan cakes

Lynx shaped pancake any one with the syrup its a sticky lynx hahahahahahahahahaha