Author Topic: Outpost: Genesis Info Leak  (Read 78299 times)

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #100 on: September 25, 2005, 10:34:26 AM »
well i think there should be upgrades for your units, but unlike in other games, when you upgrade a wep to level 1 you have to bring the units to the garage to give the upgrade to the weps. all units built after u have researshed wep level 1 would cost more and come built with the upgrade. this shouldnt require a 3rd ore.

and wen i say pop limit i mean that you have one robo cmd center or whatevea, or maybe 1 worker at the cmd center can only control like 20 units at once, like in broodwar you must have overlords/suppy depos to have more units. same in aoe with houses.

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2352
  • OPHD Lead Developer
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #101 on: September 25, 2005, 01:40:09 PM »
The original Outpost used Robot CC's to control every robot in the game. But it could only work with 10 robots at a time. Any other robots, if not assigned to a Robot CC would sit idle in a warehouse somewhere.

This might be a good idea but I think 10 is a little limiting in a game like Outpost.

So maybe 20 or 25 would be a good limit for this.

Also, I don't think that another ore would work really for this game. It really does add just too much in terms of necessary resources to collect. Three types of mines and smelters is a little bit of over kill.

However, other resources, such as various gas refineries to collect gas from the gas pockets under the surface of the planet is feasible. As the gas is extremely volitile when exposed to the atmospheric gasses (kind of like methane or propane), using that for a projectile weapons which releases clouds of the gas and then having an on-board catalyst (such as a thor's hammer type weapon or maybe even a laser device) can set off a large explosion similar to the Star Flare's or SuperNova's do (except that the firing vehicle would not be destroyed unless too close to the target).

A lot can really be done with this but I really don't think that adding another ore resource would be very helpful.

Offline TH300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
    • http://op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #102 on: September 25, 2005, 04:15:20 PM »
A population (= unit) limit is a good idea. We can anyway not have the player build infinite vehicles. To limit the vec count with robot-CCs would work. That would also prevent mass-battles.

Another ressource is only really acceptable if it doesn't give the player who has it too much advantage. This way every player can decide whether to gather this ressource or not. That doubles the count of equal strategies.

Offline BlackBox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #103 on: September 25, 2005, 04:22:27 PM »
You should have options to turn on / off the pop limit.

On a side note, the whole game should be very customizable -- all game rules should be able to be tweaked or shut off by the user.

Offline Stormy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
    • http://www.op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #104 on: September 25, 2005, 10:14:15 PM »
That's one thing I've been trying to say but most people turned me down.. Thanks Hacker  :P  
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·
3D artist in Blender, MS3D, and Terragen.
Trying to get good with Scene composition and lighting.

Offline TH300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
    • http://op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2005, 09:29:35 AM »
Quote
eh, I don't like the idea of a population limit, it can make everything a little boring after a while. However, how about people die from unemployment after a period of time, because they don't have any 'credits' to spend at the agridome for food. (this is a bunch of 'novella' type info... but still)  ;) . However, some people would survive even though they are unemployed, as a friend would share food with them.
how can you be so sure that Money exists in the Outpost world?

Quote
On a side note, the whole game should be very customizable -- all game rules should be able to be tweaked or shut off by the user.
Customizability is in General good, but we have to take care that none of the possible settings outbalances the game too much.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2005, 09:31:05 AM by TH300 »

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2352
  • OPHD Lead Developer
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2005, 11:39:33 AM »
Well, that's the thing. In the Multiplayer aspect, it will end up working a lot like, dare I say, Age of Empires. You can set various thing (like fog of war and full map view). You can also turn on and off certain technologies, disasters, the like.

As far as a population limit, I guess if you mean like the standard of 200 units max, that works well enough for me. Actually, it may be a necessary evil. But, just like in AoE, you can set it to 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200. Also, if people have good enough hardware in their computers, they can turn off the population limit alltogether (but again, you're going to need REALLY good hardware for this! Remember, it's 3D and there's going to be a LOT of geometry to render!).

If by "Game Rules" you mean various engine settings than you've got it (including customizable keyboard/mouse operation). The idea is to make a very flexible engine.

If by "Game Rules" you mean making changes to the way the game operates, well... that won't be so customizable in-game. The way to change that is to create a 'MOD' to the game using the provided 'Logic Module' SDK. Simply compile the new Logic Module DLL (or however it works on other systems), put it in a new directory, start the game and load the MOD (from the MOD menu). That's really the only way to truely customize the game's logic, add new units, structures, resources, tech's, etc.

As a side note, the way I envision OP3's engine to work is as a new game but taking the lessons learned from OP2 as well as learning from the success of the Age of Empires and WarCraft series and incorporating all of these various aspects of RTS gaming into one, clean robust package. I hope that makes sense.

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #107 on: September 26, 2005, 02:23:37 PM »
Cant wait :P !

as for population limit there is a overall population limit which is how many units/buildings etc you can have. but in aoe games you have houses and each gives you more unit limit. so an equlivent for the game would be good

Offline coolzero

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • http://www.trippyac.com
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #108 on: September 26, 2005, 03:12:30 PM »
but there is a deaper reason in aoe that there is a pop limit cous ifyou go over 300 orsomething you can realy make the game lag  
becous havning my signature 5720 characters long or so is a little crazy and hacker would prob del my signature again i diseded to make a pic of it ... this is acualy my name in letters highlighted. i just took a ss  :D

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2352
  • OPHD Lead Developer
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2005, 09:51:03 AM »
Exactly. That's why AOE has a max of 200

I will probably be setting a max of 200 which can be increased via command line parameters.

The houses in AOE allowed for I think 10 more units to be built. Also, the Supply Depot's in StarCraft did the same thing.... so I figure if Robot CC's could take care of up to ... I dunno... prolly 20 units (because there are other factors in the game like scientists and workers that you need to operate the Robot CC's)... that would work.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #110 on: September 27, 2005, 11:30:31 AM »
So your going to make the RCC actually worth some thing then.  It seems logical that there computers even tho powerful savants that have rootamentary emotions. would have there limits as well
 

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #111 on: September 27, 2005, 02:47:38 PM »
maybe have it so u have to assign another worker to the rcc if u want to build more units. so when its built u have 1 worker there and can have 25 units maybe. and the command center gives like 10 also. if u want to have more than 35 units u gotta assign another worker at the rcc as aposed to building a new rcc. tho.. maybe each rcc has a limit of a few workers so u do have to build more like in other games.

what you think?

Offline TH300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
    • http://op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #112 on: September 27, 2005, 04:33:44 PM »
Quote
maybe have it so u have to assign another worker to the rcc if u want to build more units. so when its built u have 1 worker there and can have 25 units maybe. and the command center gives like 10 also. if u want to have more than 35 units u gotta assign another worker at the rcc as aposed to building a new rcc. tho.. maybe each rcc has a limit of a few workers so u do have to build more like in other games.

what you think?
I like this idea. Otherwise too much ore will be spent on RCCs and they'll probably take up too much plae in narrow base locations. However - to find the right balance between cost and use of a higher unit-limit will be a task for when most of the game engine is finish, not now.

Offline BlackBox

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #113 on: September 27, 2005, 04:46:18 PM »
Sounds good.

Speaking of buildings, there should be other buildings that get put to better use. like the Trade center, Observatory, etc.

Also, an interesting idea: You should be able to self destruct things like tokamaks. Useful as a last ditch defense. (The EMP blast from it)

Offline TH300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
    • http://op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #114 on: September 27, 2005, 05:48:42 PM »
Quote
Sounds good.

Speaking of buildings, there should be other buildings that get put to better use. like the Trade center, Observatory, etc.
The TradeCenter is quite useful in multiplayer-team-games. What do you expect? Something like the Marketplace in AoE? I'm not sure if that would fit in the Outpost world.
As for the Observatory, I don't know yet.

Quote
Also, an interesting idea: You should be able to self destruct things like tokamaks. Useful as a last ditch defense. (The EMP blast from it)
That makes me think of a new strategy:

the tokamak-rush: rush in the enemy's base and build a tokamak, then let it explode. Maybe combine it with the Earthworker-rush™ or just send in a few lynxes afterwards.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2005, 05:49:22 PM by TH300 »

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #115 on: September 27, 2005, 07:25:28 PM »
well first i wasent sure if they would put miniflares in the tok's to SD them.

and about trade and market thing. you have to think how far colonys would be seprated away. like there may be pockets of high ore land where colonys would be built, so the colonys would be far away. so transport may happen between them, but what for? and for transport- cargo trucks, maybe a smaller cargo truck, which is faster. and in op1 the tech level is much higher than of op2 and they have train like vec's in it. two far away colonys may build a tube between them with fast transport.

multiplayer options?

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #116 on: September 28, 2005, 03:59:47 AM »
the observatory needs a tractor beam to drop meteors on plymouth scum lol

Offline TH300

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1404
    • http://op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #117 on: September 28, 2005, 07:01:10 AM »
Quote
well first i wasent sure if they would put miniflares in the tok's to SD them.
Miniflares in the toks would be wasted. All you need to sd them is a reactor malfunction.

Quote
and about trade and market thing. you have to think how far colonys would be seprated away. like there may be pockets of high ore land where colonys would be built, so the colonys would be far away. so transport may happen between them, but what for? and for transport- cargo trucks, maybe a smaller cargo truck, which is faster. and in op1 the tech level is much higher than of op2 and they have train like vec's in it. two far away colonys may build a tube between them with fast transport.
Technically everything could be transported through tubes, even the ore to the smelters. In my opinion that would make it too simple, but maybe thats just me. If at all, this technology should only be available at the end of the TechTree and tubes should be easier to destroy, so that the player has to actually take care of long tube connections between Colonys.
 

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #118 on: September 28, 2005, 04:34:40 PM »
How about larger bigger tubes for ore transport.  you know in the story it didnt sound like there was to much room in the tubes.

Offline zigzagjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #119 on: September 29, 2005, 08:54:51 AM »
in the story, tho, they did transfer ore thru the tubes. just your regular everyday tubes.

Offline Freeza-CII

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2308
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2005, 07:56:01 PM »
it just sounds more logical that a larger tube would be better for ore then a tiny tube.  Ore and Food are the life you would think the arteries would be (larger?)

Offline Leviathan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4055
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #121 on: September 30, 2005, 08:03:47 AM »
they could still be small. they just have to be big enough to fit tracks for train type vecs to move up and down them i would think. and they dont have to be that big. but that would be the fastest way to move resources around the colonys. faster that just plain tunnels.

Offline leeor_net

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2352
  • OPHD Lead Developer
    • LairWorks Entertainment
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #122 on: September 30, 2005, 08:49:22 AM »
Wow... I forgot AGAIN to hit the submit button!

Anyway, stormy had made an interesting note about the tubes in OP2: They appear to be half underground. This would certainly explain the change in the look from the first game. OP1's tube system was huge. The tube could easily fit... well, not cargo trucks, but anyone who's ever worked or been in a warehouse would know what a hi-loading fork-lift would look like. They would probably use something like that to move resources if they even needed to do so within the colony. Most ores and whatnot are moved around by the cargo trucks (in OP1, the cargo trucks moved invisibly so you didn't really know where they were at any given time but you could set routes and you would need to have the trucks move between the Smelter, Mine and Storage Tanks for resources to effectively be moved around.

I think doing it this way in OP3 would add an unneccessary level of complexity.

However, I think we'll go with Stormy's notion of the tub system from OP2: They are indeed partially underground. This helps to shield colonists moving through them from harmfull radiation and also helps to reduce the potential for wall and structure breaches (because most of the pressure exerted on the tube's structure is contained by the ground so you've got just the top which is reinforced as is (wires, pipes, etc.).

Offline zigzagjoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #123 on: September 30, 2005, 08:51:54 AM »
yeah, they are mostly underground. check out the novella; you may be able to get some detail from it.

Offline Stormy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 678
    • http://www.op3game.net
Outpost: Genesis Info Leak
« Reply #124 on: September 30, 2005, 11:39:31 PM »
Ok then, Tubes are pretty much decided on, halfway Underground.

Anything else we should discuss?  :lol:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2005, 12:35:34 AM by Stormy »
`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·
3D artist in Blender, MS3D, and Terragen.
Trying to get good with Scene composition and lighting.