Author Topic: Design Implementation Solutions (Read 9292 times)

leeor_net · « **on:** June 04, 2005, 02:14:58 AM »

OUTPOST was a turn-based game. Thus, OUTPOST: Missing In Action is a turn-based game. SIERRA had plans to release a multiplayer version of OUTPOST via the INN network that never happened.

Of course, because of that, no one knows how SIERRA planned to tackle the problem of creating a turn-based game in multiplayer. OUTPOST's turns were and undefined period of time. The user could advance turns at his or her own pace.

How do you create a multiplayer game when you have a player that's taking his or her time and everyone else is ready to go?

I thought about this problem for awhile and then I thought about the way Outpost2 works with its time. Outpost2 also uses turns but it sets each turn as a pre-defined time interval thus turning it into a real-tim strategy. As each turn progresses, you get updates to the number of colonists dead and morale changes.

And the problem has a solution. OP:MIA will use a similar approach with its multiplayer component. The main game will remain turn-based. The multiplayer will become faux real-time.

Faux-realtime means that each turn will last a good minute or two (or maybe 3?) up to an agreed upon amount of time at the onset of each game. The players will decide how long turns will take (with a max of 5 minuts maybe?) before the game starts. After the game starts, users start building their colony just as they would normally except that turns advance automatically.

Any thoughts?

:op2: Leeor Dicker

Hooman · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2005, 03:16:20 AM »

You might also want to have a way to end a turn early if all players are done before the alloted time expires.

leeor_net · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2005, 04:51:56 AM »

Yes. I had thought of that but forgot to put it in the origianl post. Thanks for the tip...

:op2: Leeor Dicker

Leviathan · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2005, 06:46:27 AM »

Well turning a turn based game into real time is a great idea

I like the idea of the players picking the game speed (length of a turn).

But also have you never played a turn based game and looked at its multi ? Like CivNet or Call to Power, thos games are still turn based in multiplayer and i think MIA should be able to be played like that also.

When playing on your own when you click end turn your on to your next turn right away because the AI dosent take anytime to do its turn, in multi you have to wait for other players to do there turns. This is why turn based games are not very popular in multiplayer, i went online with Call to Power 2 once and not very many people playing. Anyway, a good game could take days (even weeks) to complete in a game like that because its so in depth, i dont think MIA will take as long but it needs a option to save multi games so you can come back anoter day and keep going at ur game

leeor_net · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2005, 09:15:11 PM »

I thought of doing the turn-based multi by having each player click on "End Turn" and then waiting for the other players. However, as you said, this is not a very popular method of muliplayer gaming. I could include an option for that but I don't know how often it will be used.

I could set a poll for those options when the final game nears completion. I think, however that the multiplayer I proposed will be the default (I could do timed turn-based or untimed turn-based... how does that sound?)

:op2: Leeor Dicker

Leviathan · « **Reply #5 on:** June 05, 2005, 03:31:21 PM »

Like i said, i think both options should be in the game, its a turn based game so it needs to have turn based multiplayer. Also the real time option would be realy good.

leeor_net · « **Reply #6 on:** June 05, 2005, 04:43:52 PM »

Of course.

OP:MIA's multiplayer won't deter too much from the original concept. OP1 was about landing on an alien planet and surviving until the colony's base structure could be complete and most basic demands be met.

After that it was about developing and enhancing the colony and the life of its residents. Economic and technological growth was among the most import aspects of the games.

Outpost 2 focused on a similar strategy but added a battle element to the game which worked great for itself. I don't think, however, that a similar approach will work for OP:MIA.

OP:MIA's multiplayer will consist of the economic and technological aspects of the game so players will be striving to not only survive but create a colony that is so desireable to all of the Earth disaster survivors that they defect to your colony. That is where spying becomes a major part of the game. Trade and transportation will also be important to the survival of a colony. Of course, adding in a battle element is feasible. It would probably have to be done similarly to what you would find in Civ/Civ2/Alpha Centauri/Etc. except that you would probably set a route for various units to take. From there it's all a matter of how things pan out.

I am, however, completely open to suggestions at this point. While OP:MIA is in no shape to be released even in a demo form, Multiplayer is something that I would have to consider in the beginning if I'm going to be later creating a multiplayer component to the game.

:op2: Leeor Dicker

BlackBox · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2005, 08:01:06 AM »

Yeah, from a programming standpoint, most of the game objects for both single and multiplayer stem from the exact same objects. For example the QuakeII engine (and many more) use a Host object to indicate both a local (human or AI), or remote player.

This made multiplay development a lot easier since you could just use the already-existing classes.

I'd think you could do time limited turn based, so the game would flow faster, but yes, make it an option to change how the game is played.

And like Lev said, save/load features for multi are a must if the game is to be played for a long time.

leeor_net · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2005, 12:29:14 AM »

Save/Load of multiplayer games is a definate must. I remember the times my brother and I used to play Age of Empires II over the net together. Our games lasted so long that we needed to save the games to finish at later times (one took a year before we connected again to finish the game!)

So yeah, it's a definate must-have.

Leviathan · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2005, 04:02:42 AM »

If its turn based, a auto save at each turn would be good. Rember people can get d/c, 56kers and line drop etc.

leeor_net · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2005, 10:28:16 PM »

Oooh... that's a good point. I think the game will start asking players to decide on a particular save-game name.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2005, 07:02:21 PM »

Well, I noticed you were talking about civ2, so hopefully I don't have to explain it to you. Anyways, civ 2 had a multipalyer editon (if you didn't know, couldn't tell) where you could set turn length (unlimited/1/3/5/etc) and each player would take their own turn.
BUT
There was also an option that was, sadly, excluded from the release but someebody added it back in. Anyways, it let all human players "do" their turns at the same time, and then the AI would make separate turns. (AI would never move at the same time). So, maybe do something like this for OPM (players can pick real-time or turn-based for multi)? know that I'm thinking of it, will people be able to set AI players in single/multiplayer games?

Sirbomber · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2005, 07:38:29 PM »

Converts Civ 2 to Civ 2 Multiplayer Gold Edition:
US/UK: http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ2/..._uccupdate3.exe
German: http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ2/...y/civ2multi.exe

Civ 2 MGE No-CD Patch
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ2/.../Civ2_13crk.zip

Quote

HOW TO USE:

a) DOWNLOAD CIV2 GOLD MULTIPLAYER 1.3EN PATCH
b) UPDATE YOUR CIV2
c) COPY CIV2_13.COM INTO CIV2 DIRECTORY
d) RUN CIV2_13.COM
e) IF YOU WANT DELETE CIV2_13.COM

Civ 2 MGE Simultaneous Multiplayer Editor
http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ2/...y/civ2mpfix.zip

Quote

This program is based on Tony Toon's amazing discovery that players can move simultaneously in multiplayer games if the line "Simultaneous=1" is added to the CIV.INI file in the \WINDOWS directory. The CIV.INI file usually resets itself after each game. This program makes it easier for you to start a simultaneous MP game by editing the INI file for you. More information on Simultaneous MP is available here.

omagaalpha · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2005, 07:51:25 PM »

___Is it me or did leo say in his post in this thread about war units being add to game. If this true then this is no longer outpost 1 in my opion for that what make different between outpost 1 and 2.
___Actual it is why love oupost 1 for not about take out other coloney but try best to make coloney that is desireable by action of choice that make in own coloney to determine who they go to.
__For lot devoloper make game always use war to attracted people into game for lot like that without war.

Sirbomber · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:20:47 PM »

Quote

Is it just me or did leeor talk about adding combat units to the game? If so, then this is no longer Outpost 1, it's just Outpost 2 again.
I like Outpost 1 because you're not just trying to kill the other guy like every other game. You're trying to build a city based on the needs of your people, not based on how to build the biggest army. The actions you take towards growing your colony should influence people to defect to your colony, not your army's size...
Too many games today are about war and destruction.

Well, that sure is easier to read (no offense).

Anyways, taking that into consideration, maybe there should be something like the civ2 bloodlust mode - Build the best colony or launch a new starship, or you can turn on bloodlust and add the combat units.

I hope I got what you were trying to say omega.

leeor_net · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:47:21 PM »

I had thought to add battle modes to OP1 (as SIERRA had intended it as an expansion pack. Visit the following link for detailed information: http://opmia.outpostuniverse.net/doc/the_..._of_outpost.htm ) but I think I've reconsidered. I think the best modes of 'warfare' are for the monorail plagues and economic warfare (deprive a player of a particular resource and force them to pay insanely high prices for a resource).

Sirbomber · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2005, 08:56:13 PM »

Wow, that's some pretty impressive stuff...
Just PROMISE me you won't even CONSIDER the "alien species" expansion.

leeor_net · « **Reply #17 on:** November 25, 2005, 10:24:15 PM »

I thought the alien expansion bit was stupid. If you want Aliens, play StarCraft. That's what I always say. And that's pretty much my final word on that... B)

Sirbomber · « **Reply #18 on:** November 25, 2005, 10:25:05 PM »

Thank you. You have no idea what this means to me.

leeor_net · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2005, 12:18:23 PM »

lol.

Something I noticed above in Hacker's post was about Q2 and C++ Classes.... Quake 2 was programmed entirely in C and used no OOP concepts. It's a wonder the game works as well as it does... actually, I can see how it's possible (applications were programmed in C for the longest time) but since I've become familiarized with C++ and OOP, I don't think I'll ever really be able to turn back. OOP makes things just too easy to work with! (thumbsup)

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Author Topic: Design Implementation Solutions (Read 9292 times)