Outpost Universe Forums
Off Topic => General Interest => Topic started by: ZeusBD on April 10, 2004, 01:41:10 AM
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DID YOU KNOW?
As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!
As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.
As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!
There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.
James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.
Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.
The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."
How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?
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DID YOU KNOW?
That out of all the current top leading researchers/scientists on this planet only 5% are religious.
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Did you know that their is a religious man (I forgot his name, but my supervisor went to one of his conferences) that goes around the world and holds conferences. He says that he will give $250K to anyone that can prove evolution. No scientist has ever been able to do it in the years that he's done it. No one can prove evolution, so how can you prove that God didn't make us in his own image and put us here?
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Correct, i cannot prove or disprove any of them but to me evolution seems more logical/plausible.
But then again quantum mechanics and the string theory are very very strange things but still seems more logical/plausible.
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Ahh...but logic will sometimes hide the truth. If you look at things as they should be, then you might miss things as they really are.
(I don't know where I get these, they just come to my head....check out the other 3 threads on religion...I'm good)
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The evolution theory has created a lot of "offshot" theories that are used in various forms from dna research to medicines for various life forms.
These offshot theories are dependent on evolution and when religion tries to push evolution out of the way the entire system collapses and we are back at step 1.
Until religion can create a better theory/"truth" that can sustain the other theories used religion should be treated like all non relevant information in science, discardment.
Even if evolution is false and scientists only managed to secure certain truths and teories the gains vastly outweigh the knowledge gained through religion.
Medicines for various diseases like Parkinson, Alzheimer and Huntingtons Chorea are merely around the corner and while christians go mad claiming research like this and playing with the human genome is wrong the researchers will hopefully continue and solve these absolutely horrible diseases.
(it is not pretty watching a relative go from a happy tree gardener to an almost decomposing corpse kept alive by machines, especially if you know a cure is around the corner and this guy next door with a big grin says that i will burn in hell because i support such disgusting research)
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You say that christian's go mad about stopping this, but I'm a Christian and I support the idea of finding cures. So that pretty much throws out that argument since not all Christians do it. Just because a few radical's do it doesn't mean that that's what the religion is about. And evolution is not any more proof than what religion is. It is totally based on theories. You believe it because it makes sense, but I believe that God created the earth and that makes sense to me. And how can you say that religion is non relevant information? Religion should never be discarded. You should think before you speak there Zircon, if you had put a little thought into that last post than you might not have posted it since it is very foolish.
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Can religion uphold the offshot theories used in genetic research ?
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Genetic research wasn't discussed in the bible, so anyone who uses religion to try to explain anything that has to do with genetic research are either stupid or dumb. Think about what your saying....yes there is genetic research and all sorts of other kinds of research, but what does that have to do with disprooving God? Not only was your argument invalid, it didn't even make sense as to being anything close to prooving a point.
Can you prove where the first single celled organism (Where we all supposedly came from) came from? I've heard many theories, but nothing that could consist of proof.
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I wasnt trying to disproove god (this time), i was simply saying that until religion can come up with something that can support the offshot theories used or give something of equal value they shouldn't claim evolution to be wrong. Or right for that part becuase it is as said a theory.
A very useful theory that's all...
And no to answer your question it is only a theory.
What i meant with "Until religion can create a better theory/"truth" that can sustain the other theories used religion should be treated like all non relevant information in science, discardment."
Was that religion has no place in science (atleast that kind of science) not to discard it outside of science.
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Religion and science aren't, If you believe in one then you can't in the other. The conflict only comes on the part of where humans started, that's all. So what your talking about is like comparing apple's and oranges.
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Perhaps.
Still many christians claim that because "god" created the grand plan (it can be formulated many ways but that's not the point) and the juicy fruit on the top of the icecream are the humans (in other words the human genome) they claim that messing around (as in moving things around changing the very human basics) is wrong because humans shouldn't play god.
It might just be that the radicals (mentioned above) are very loud mouthed which makes them look large but in reality they consist of only a few individuals :mellow:
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I believe in advancement and in making things better. God layed the ground work and gave us the ability to make decision's on our own. If God wanted there to be no diseases, then he would have done that and the world would be overpopulated right now. But he just laid out the basics and let us go from there.
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DID you know that...
several christian churches in America support the theory of evelution over the theory of creation.
found that one out while oing a US History project.
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It might just be that the radicals (mentioned above) are very loud mouthed which makes them look large but in reality they consist of only a few individuals
This is true, very true.
Anyways, those who are not "religious" try and make up facts that tell us that there is no God. This is because they can't stand the fact that people just may have a belief in something they cannot see.
several christian churches in America support the theory of evelution over the theory of creation.
Just because some places are called "churches" doesn't nessessarily mean they are.
The evolution theory has created a lot of "offshot" theories that are used in various forms from dna research to medicines for various life forms.
I think that these theories could have come off easily from something besides the evolutionary theory.
To say that something is based soaly off of the Evolutionary theory, is a very very big assumption.
The point is, that most scientists create these theories in an attempt to try and prove that God does not exist.
However, even Albert Eienstien said that all his research only led him to acknowledge the fact that there must be a God in heaven.
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phantom, they are churches. I looked into it when I read it.
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"I think that these theories could have come off easily from something besides the evolutionary theory.
To say that something is based soaly off of the Evolutionary theory, is a very very big assumption."
That may be true for some of the theories but some also are direct "descendents" depending on the parent making them very hard to separate.
The evolution theory is more then a couple of words.
But yes nomatter how small a percentage it can still happen.
Religion does not provide an alternative though.
"The point is, that most scientists create these theories in an attempt to try and prove that God does not exist."
That's mean and an irritating thing to say :angry:
Most scientists live for their research, they dont let simple emotions control their lifes work.
A big assumption i would say. It makes me mad hearing that.
I'll stop discussing things like these if you say something like that again. grrrr.
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there is more proof to evelution than creation
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Well, seeing as how there is no proof of evolution, that has yet to be seen.
"The point is, that most scientists create these theories in an attempt to try and prove that God does not exist."
That's mean and an irritating thing to say
Most scientists live for their research, they dont let simple emotions control their lifes work.
A big assumption i would say. It makes me mad hearing that.
I'll stop discussing things like these if you say something like that again. grrrr.
I for one is happy that in 100 hundred people only one of them go to church in Sweden and that the rest of Europe is rapidly losing "faith"
...and from its attributing to God the feelings of a revengeful tyrant, was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindoos, or the beliefs of any barbarian.... -Charles Darwin
Well, I guess we all have had choice things to say then haven't we?
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What do you call fossils? What do you call genetic and structural similarities between several animals? How do you explain how humans have adapted to their technological advances through growing taller?
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Well, I don't understand how being taller has anything to do with anything. lol.
As for fossils though, could just be an extinct specie.
Animals can be similar, but if so, then why haven't they all evolved into the same form? It just makes no sence whatsoever.
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Were you around way back in biblical times? So again everything is all theory. and Zircon, your quote:
That may be true for some of the theories but some also are direct "descendents" depending on the parent making them very hard to separate.
The evolution theory is more then a couple of words.
But yes nomatter how small a percentage it can still happen.
Religion does not provide an alternative though.
What are you talking about? Haven't you ever heard of anything in the bible or even read the first few pages? It does provide an alternative, it's called God and he created humans in his own image. Unless you can find someone who was around over 3,000 years ago, then you can't prove anything about anything.
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Well, Zeus, I'd say more like 6000+ (Since we have records of the Babylonians and such).
But seriously, there are really no other records given that preceed the bible.
And if we evolved from apes (As Darwin Believed) then why are there still apes? It doesn't make any sence.
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Sorry, got my amount of years wrong (shuns thyself for such an act). But that second part is a good point.
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Did you ever think about where God comes from? If God exists, why is God there? Is God a result of evolution or has God been created by another God? In last case I had to ask the question again.
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There was no before God, he has been forever. You can't just think of it in regards to time. Think about it, what was before the universe (if you believe in the big bang theory)? What was before anything. There is no beginning and end. How can you say that there was a beginning of time, since what was before? There has always been something there. God has been there for all this time. If there was no beginning to time then there was no beginning to God.
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I never thought that this discussion about religion would turn out like this. Me and CK9 at one time just happened to say something very small and it sparked this big 'ol debate and have gone over 3 forum's and 5 or so threads
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Well, Christians believe that God was always there. Never was created/evolved/etc.
The bible says that God never changes and nither do his standards.
But anyways Outsider, I think this belongs in the Religion and Such forum. lol. Or mabey the war and religion forum?
Man, there are so many disscussion forums now, I can't keep track! :lol:
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Well, seeing as how there is no proof of evolution, that has yet to be seen.
"The point is, that most scientists create these theories in an attempt to try and prove that God does not exist."
That's mean and an irritating thing to say
Most scientists live for their research, they dont let simple emotions control their lifes work.
A big assumption i would say. It makes me mad hearing that.
I'll stop discussing things like these if you say something like that again. grrrr.
I for one is happy that in 100 hundred people only one of them go to church in Sweden and that the rest of Europe is rapidly losing "faith"
...and from its attributing to God the feelings of a revengeful tyrant, was no more to be trusted than the sacred books of the Hindoos, or the beliefs of any barbarian.... -Charles Darwin
Well, I guess we all have had choice things to say then haven't we?
There's a difference between showing a statistical value concerning the religious dividment of a country and lying Phantom.
Most scientists are above the level of letting emotions control their actions.
Also there are theories concerning what happened before the big bang and beginning/end.
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Were you around way back in biblical times? So again everything is all theory. and Zircon, your quote:
That may be true for some of the theories but some also are direct "descendents" depending on the parent making them very hard to separate.
The evolution theory is more then a couple of words.
But yes nomatter how small a percentage it can still happen.
Religion does not provide an alternative though.
What are you talking about? Haven't you ever heard of anything in the bible or even read the first few pages? It does provide an alternative, it's called God and he created humans in his own image. Unless you can find someone who was around over 3,000 years ago, then you can't prove anything about anything.
I repeat myself over and over, try to understand that what im talking about is the theories supporting and being used by research around the world, as you say yourself the "bible" doesn't speak of genetic research, thus it cannot provide an alternative for genetic research.
Read my post again.
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There's a difference between showing a statistical value concerning the religious dividment of a country and lying Phantom.
Who says that I did not show a statistical value?
Most scientists are above the level of letting emotions control their actions.
I haven't seen it yet.
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:blink: It is now obvious that this discussion can not continue anylonger...
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Yah, this was a "Did you know" topic anyways, not a discussion about evolution, etc.
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Lol, anyone else got anymore "Did You Know's" to share with us?
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Well, I don't understand how being taller has anything to do with anything. lol.
As for fossils though, could just be an extinct specie.
Animals can be similar, but if so, then why haven't they all evolved into the same form? It just makes no sence whatsoever.
The taller thing is an adaptation: With the advances in tecnology, man has less of a need to be small to get into areas.
as for the similarities: each branching species that is similar, yet still different evolved to adapt to their surroundings. Why do you think a Russian Blue and a Calico look so different?
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I believe evolution is a bunch of BS. It can't be proven. Here are some proofs of that:
1- Radiocarbon dating isn't accurate. First of all, how can we verify that the halflife of carbon-14 is some 7400 years? radioactive decay may fluctuate as the element decays.
Also, the carbon-14 content can be changed by various environmental processes. When things decay, they can become carbonized by heat and pressure, etc. This would affect the amount of carbon in the specimen being dated.
2- Science itself contradicts evolution. The 2nd law of thermodynamics can be defined as "the entropy of the universe increases during any spontaneous process." Entropy is defined as a random dispersal of energy, in other words, chaos.
Evolution contradicts chaos by saying that as Time increases Helpful Mutations increase.
3- Science defines evolution as "helpful mutations over time give rise to new species." Most genetic mutations that happen are not helpful. For example, you can be born with a variety of genetic caused disorders (eg. Down's syndrome, sickle cell anemia, etc) due to mutations. Most mutations are anything but helpful. Mutations are totally random, and what chance do they have to produce something useful? A very small chance. That would be like using a random generator to randomly spit out letters and having the letters form a sentence. Impossible.
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2- Science itself contradicts evolution. The 2nd law of thermodynamics can be defined as "the entropy of the universe increases during any spontaneous process." Entropy is defined as a random dispersal of energy, in other words, chaos.
Evolution contradicts chaos by saying that as Time increases Helpful Mutations increase.
3- Science defines evolution as "helpful mutations over time give rise to new species." Most genetic mutations that happen are not helpful. For example, you can be born with a variety of genetic caused disorders (eg. Down's syndrome, sickle cell anemia, etc) due to mutations. Most mutations are anything but helpful. Mutations are totally random, and what chance do they have to produce something useful? A very small chance. That would be like using a random generator to randomly spit out letters and having the letters form a sentence. Impossible.
2: That isn't a contradiction, if these mutations help to increase the entropy quicker. And since we heat up our planet (and the surrounding space) with airplanes, rockets etc. the entropy grows quicker.
Also it's not much a question of which type of human lives on earth, but how many humans. As I remember the population has grown much in the last centuries.
3: you're right. Most mutations aren't helpful, but in the past humans with these mutations in most cases didn't live long enaough to reproduce themselves.
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as outsider pointed out, in the past (before medical technology) mutations that did not help resulted in the organism dieing. The reason the Dodo no longer exists, is because it couldn't evolve in a way that helped it against it's preditors.
as for the carbon thing, they never said it could be fully relied on, that's why every reading has a +\- (some number of years)