Outpost Universe Forums
Projects & Development => Inactive Projects => GORF => Outpost 3: Alien Worlds => Topic started by: knux on April 01, 2004, 08:18:07 PM
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I am having trouble deciding what to do with some of the population engine settings so I'll ask everyone what they think.
For scientist/worker training via the university what would you like in op3:
Current op2 system:
Uni turns children into workers automatically. Can be instructed to turn a selected number of workers into scientists.
Op3 option 1:
Have uni automatically train scientists based on current population (ie always have a set proportion of the population as scientists).
Op3 option 2:
Have a manpower slider to transfer available workers from pool into research. (ie take workers from production and put them into research).
What does everyone think?
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I like all of them, they all have their good points. may I make a sugestion?
If it is possible, maby have the university auto-train, but you set the population standards.
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Thats a good idea. A mix of the two. Anyone else?
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I dislike the 3rd, bcz it'd make things too easy.
current op2 system is useful, when ur colony is small, op3 1 if it is big.
The best would be a possibility to choose between these two.
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the system is op2 is bad bcuz u cant just build loads like in other RTS games, u need the workers for the buildings. once u have a lot of buildings ur researsh will b v slow cuz u have no scientists.
personialy i dislike this as im used 2 and like 2 play where all u need for the buildings is minerials.
when playing on lan we use the population cheat so we can play like that. makes it better imo.
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i liked the op3 first option
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I disagree Lev....if you make it so that you don't have to worry about people, then it would take away some from the strategy part of it. I like the OP3 option 1, or like was suggested, maybe you could choose from either option.
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I'm not sure about the OP3 Option1,
If the University trains Workers to Scientist automatically,
You will not have many workers for future buildings.
But if you can set an amount of scientist to a certain number, such as 32 for example, the computer will train workers automatically to keep the amount of scientists to that number.
But if you have like 10 Workers and 22 Scientist and build a University the Computer will train the 10 Workers leaving you with none.
So I will have to choose the Current OP2 System,
Therefore if you need Scientist you can set how many you want and train them without loosing allot of workers.
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Kiith if ur buildings dont have enough workers to support them, scientist's will be used.
in op2 if the scientists r on researsh then u have 2 manualy take them off it so that they go on2 the buildings.
mayb a system 2 automaticly remove scientist's from researsh and put on2 buildings could b introduced.
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great idea, Leviathan, but only for multiplayer-games with steady moral.
In colony-games and the Campeign the moral will go down, if u use scientists as workers.
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great idea, Leviathan, but only for multiplayer-games with steady moral.
In colony-games and the Campeign the moral will go down, if u use scientists as workers.
Yes that was exactly my thought on Leviathan's Post
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So it seems that the current op2 system is the most popular. I may tweak it, but I'll use the same system.
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hum...
DO NOT change the population growth system, this ISN'T C&C after all.
however, you could have different upgrades that allow for a more fluid system...
such as, having more then a 10-max training roster per university (say up to around 30 max... as no one should be training more then 30 at a time... by the time you can have that many free workers, you've probably already gotten through much of the total research tree)
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If you have 30 free workers to train, chances are you can afford to build a couple universities. :P
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If you have 30 free workers to train, chances are you can afford to build a couple universities. :P
Sounds funny, but there may not be any structure-limit.
Research that would reduce bad effects on the morale caused by too many unemployed colonists would also be good.
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I definately agree with the OP2 system. I find it really adds something to the game. Although, I see nothing wrong with tweaking it a little. It might be nice to have it auto train workers, but only if you've enabled that option. I like being able to keep complete control over whatever I can. But hey, I might be a bit of a control freak. ;)
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I like the OP2 system too. And to the max scientists: I could use it, because if I'm playing OP2 with brother and I build spaceship, I need as much scientists as availiable, because the game isn't won by leaving, so I launch the ship and after launch I have some scientists to run the colony(not ideal, but I can take about 10 scis now )
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Option 1 please! I hate it when all my scientists die and I can't do anything.
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Yes, the only thing that I would want to change: don't let scientists die before workers! When I would get food shortfall, my scientists die and I cannot do anything from that time...
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Ofcourse scientists die normally after a while. But yes, if there's no food, the children should be the first ones to go so the colony can be maintained....then again that would be bad for morale, so maybe the workers? :huh:
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If there's not enough food, they should first share what's there (everybody gets less, but enough to survive for a while)
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be realistic here... if you were in a drought... and everyone is short of food, wouldn't you give your children what you have?
i mean, thats human nature... and besides, no children=no future... if your short on food, you'll need children in game terms, so as to replace the workers...
speaking of which, there is one thing i have thought about... and thats the university... yeh it should increase worker training rates, but workers should still get trained anyway... you know, by the people who currently run the job
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Well the uni will automatically generate workers from children as long as it is online. I don't think I'll have research to speed it up but I may have research to speed up scientist training. But it will be much faster then op2.
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no you misunderstood me knux, i was talking about the fact that if you in op2 have a colony without a university, then you'll end up with a load of children. if you read the manual, or the online manual, it mentions somewhere that children are actually all untrained colonists in teh colony... so you could have an 84 year old still get counted as a child (though "children" won't have kids... ... mrrr) ... but really, you should still have workers being trained ... i mean, if you have 1 person who works at the agridome, then he could teach a child how it works ... and the same with other (non scientist) jobs.
the metal storages only need people in case there is a clog, which is dealt with by pressing a button... does that really require oxford-level training to do?
basically, all i'm saying is that, workers should still be trained in a colony, just very slowly if there is no university.
now before ppl start saying the same about the nursery, i'll point out that in op2, the two would be parents would have to go to the nursery to get screened and stuff... and to get permission, as the population has to be controlled when on an airless planet.
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There should be a counter of the women (cuz women rarely work as a technician)
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'the commons' which is shared living area in Residence's could b a place where people could pass on knowledge to others so people could be trained here. it could also happen in Forum's
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There should be a counter of the women (cuz women rarely work as a technician)
say what?
remember 1st of all this isn't earth, people do what they can.
2ndly, women only rarely work as technicians on earth because the western world is still got one foot half in victorian ideas.
edit: i guess i should elaborate on this. basically, only recently are women really taking on roles that before were man only... i guess i'm still not explaining it good, but well, theres nothing to stop a woman being a technician, and ppl are only really just starting to realise that.[size]
besides the really important point is that this is in the end a game, and has to be coded... i think that the novelty of differentiating gender in op3 will be not worth the extra coding it will require
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There should be a counter of the women (cuz women rarely work as a technician)
say what?
remember 1st of all this isn't earth, people do what they can.
2ndly, women only rarely work as technicians on earth because the western world is still got one foot half in victorian ideas.
edit: i guess i should elaborate on this. basically, only recently are women really taking on roles that before were man only... i guess i'm still not explaining it good, but well, theres nothing to stop a woman being a technician, and ppl are only really just starting to realise that.[size]
besides the really important point is that this is in the end a game, and has to be coded... i think that the novelty of differentiating gender in op3 will be not worth the extra coding it will require
Actually, why there is a lack of equal representation in engineering when it comes to women is not a cultural issue at all.
At my uni, girls who enter engineering get a $1000 sweetener.
But the real reason you don't see many girl technicial is simple, girls just don't like gadgets. You may get a couple now and again, but the majority aren't interested in technology.
For the record, aside from the story, every colonist in op3 will be faceless. No male or female distinction. Just a number of colonists. I don't see the point of having a man and woman counter.
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I agree with you, would be more trouble than it's worth.
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what about somthing simmiler to the op1 system? it has what ezekel talkd about, it isnt nessacery to train workers but it helps alot, plus it has more classes than just child, worker, scientist, it has things like retired and such
I doubt that pop engine was very diffucult because it was put onto a floppy disk, so it cant be that big
btw I like the fact of the micromanagement of training scientists, but I would like a redundent feature built in that it would automaticly train a scientist or 2 if there numbers drop too low for the structures that need them (like if it only has 1-2 more than are absolultly needed, not counting reshurch) so if a coloney has a cc, a university, and a nursery, the university would make sure that the coloney would have at least 4 scientists
that would remidy the common problem faced in multy where the person forgets to train, and all of a sudden his university dies due to lack of scientists and he cant get more so he is screwd
btw has anyone notised that the cc can still run even without the scientisit that is needed for it?
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what about somthing simmiler to the op1 system? it has what ezekel talkd about, it isnt nessacery to train workers but it helps alot, plus it has more classes than just child, worker, scientist, it has things like retired and such
I doubt that pop engine was very diffucult because it was put onto a floppy disk, so it cant be that big
btw I like the fact of the micromanagement of training scientists, but I would like a redundent feature built in that it would automaticly train a scientist or 2 if there numbers drop too low for the structures that need them (like if it only has 1-2 more than are absolultly needed, not counting reshurch) so if a coloney has a cc, a university, and a nursery, the university would make sure that the coloney would have at least 4 scientists
that would remidy the common problem faced in multy where the person forgets to train, and all of a sudden his university dies due to lack of scientists and he cant get more so he is screwd
btw has anyone notised that the cc can still run even without the scientisit that is needed for it?
I haven't seen the op1 system. What was the population engine like?
Sadly I took that game back the same day. Op2 is MUCH better.
Well the code might have been small enough to fit on a floppy disk, but how many paragraphs of text can you fit in 1.38MB, text file? Quite a lot.
I might even drop scientist dying from structures, even scientist use altogether and just have them for research.
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well the CC disables in that situation. but like a disabled refinery, it kinda gets frozen where it is in turns of carrying out its role
a disabled refinery can still store metal for example.
and knux, if possible try not to phase out the need for scientists to run the special structures completely.
maybe make it change a little (maybe remove it from the DIRT), but structures like spaceports and universities and observatories definetly need a scientist or 2 to run them (well 2 in all the mentioned examples ;) )
course, its your game, so do whatever is more managable for you.
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The game was originally planed to be a colony builder. The combat part was opted in later in development... Probobly ment to be a "helper" after the failure of OP1... Morale steady takes away from the main focus of the game, most people seem to like only the combat part. Personally, I like the colony builder part of the game (one reason why I want to host, and hate pie) as well as the combat part. Makes for a fun mix IMO. IMO, those that only play for the combat should go get C&C...
I think a mixture of option one and the original way.
The original way allows a more precise control of your scientist amounts, however, the first option also allows you to have an amount auto made, so you can shift your focus to other, more pressing matters. Just my thoughts...
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I enjoy both types of game of Outpost 2, using morale and not using it. A normal combat game u dont have 2 worry about morale because the main focus of the game is combat.
personaly i think if you are playing a spacerace or a build & trade game u should have to deal with morale as u do not have to worry about combat.
a more realistic and full game of outpost 2 u should use morale but with out the morale steady option on multiplayer you could not have pure combat games.
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Yeah, glad to have that option, cuz the "Morale is terrible" message can be very annoying in middle of a combat.